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It's like you don't even read anything when you post. My posts, the books themselves... Cannoli Send a noteboard - 02/02/2011 06:41:10 PM
The very idea that a whole continent of people are all untrustworthy and dishonorable is absurd enough,
Why?

but the only thing you're basing this on is the word of the conquerors of these very people. Of course they're going to claim that they were bringing enlightenment to a barbaric people.
At least there's something more to it than all those fan-fiction theories about Ishamael subtly altering the the Prophecies. In any event, the BWB, written in a voice hostile to the Seanchan suggests other evidence supports that perception. IIRC RJ might have as well. There is no indication that this is solely one of those things solely told by the Seanchan.

That's how most hegemonic powers have justified their expansions in history.
Because it has frequently been very plausible. Especially in places conquered by the Paendrag

I find it absurd that you swallow all their crap completely, and then use this to state that a whole continent is tainted.
Hey, look what happened as soon as the rulers were killed off! It's like there's something WRONG with those people. 8} And anyway, that was not the substance of my issue, which was that the Seanchan left no trace of the pre-existing polities or nations, which have no evidence of long-standing states or groups. Trying to restore the old order to Seanchan would be something like trying to repatriate former slaves in the US back to their ancestral homelands and tribes. Regardless of what you might think of this past, that is NOT the practice they seem to be employing in the wetlands, where they are leaving the nations and polities intact, but subordinate.

Further, if the people of the Wetlands have an inherent system of justice and honor that will allow them to survive the absence of the Seanchan,
That was not what I said. My point was that if the Seanchan disappear soon, Altara, Tarabon and their other conquered realms can keep going on their own. The case of Andor suggests similar things happening with the death of Hawkwing. The first queen of Andor claimed her right to rule from her descent from a pre-Hawkwing monarch in the same area. Such cases may have been rare in that time, because Hawkwing deliberately supressed nationalistic dissent by making concentrated efforts to break up such foci. A policy the Seanchan are NOT carrying out.

what justification do they have for their invasion and their intent to export their bigotry and persecution?


What bigotry? They are the most multi-ethnic society shown, and have specific policies against discrimination, to the point that two generals dislike speaking of the differences in quality between the local auxiliaries and soldiers native to Seanchan. What persecution? Persecuting criminals and theives and other sorts that made Ebou Dar, even in a time of relative peace and prosperity, such a dangerous city as it was viewed in the middle books? Putting down rebellion as every single other nation that suffers such events does? Or letting their newly conquered subjects come and go as they please, bearing arms and conducting commerce with their enemies? Do you mean the way they tolerate the Tinkers and even subsidize their useless idiocy, allowing them to be parasites of the state?

Make no mistake - your absurd characterization of their treatment of channelers as bigotry is a complete misuse of the term, and an utterly mendacious attempt to smear the one people in the given world who are most innocent of that term as it is used in contempory application. The Seanchan are no more bigoted against channeling than any nation is bigoted against criminals who break their laws. The absurd mentality of comparing channelers to any sort of group whose members are guilty merely of a different set of human behaviors or physical characteristics than those approved of the establishment, is more disruptive of productive discussion or analysis of the books than any amount of vituperation between posters. People with an uncontrolable, impossible-to-regulate characteristic than can, and has, caused great amounts of destruction are simply not in the same category as people who have the same type of capabilities as the general run of humanity, but merely choose to behave differently.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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Seanchan Takeover of Randland - 22/01/2011 11:25:36 PM 1973 Views
You mean utter anarchy and a dangerously stratified society? - 23/01/2011 07:24:48 AM 742 Views
The situation in Seanchan isn't that unique - 23/01/2011 07:49:28 AM 756 Views
Except with continous rebellion. - 23/01/2011 12:13:17 PM 731 Views
That's to be expected. - 23/01/2011 12:56:07 PM 730 Views
The anarchy is what happens in the absence of Seanchan power. - 27/01/2011 01:10:56 PM 702 Views
Yes. That is a flaw of Seanchan governance. - 28/01/2011 01:54:00 AM 623 Views
It's not the Empire's fault, and that flaw is not being duplicated in the wetlands - 28/01/2011 11:24:00 PM 878 Views
Wait... the indegenous Seanchan haven't changed in a thousand years? - 29/01/2011 02:09:05 AM 689 Views
It's like you don't even read anything when you post. My posts, the books themselves... - 02/02/2011 06:41:10 PM 765 Views
They treat channelers like DOGS! so, No. *NM* - 23/01/2011 07:56:22 AM 382 Views
I treat my dog better *NM* - 23/01/2011 10:28:08 AM 368 Views
Good point. *NM* - 24/01/2011 01:47:29 AM 392 Views
The Pattern certainly has some plan or purpose for the Seanchan. - 23/01/2011 10:59:33 AM 815 Views
That's what's scary. In many ways, the Seanchan embody the goals of the Pattern - 23/01/2011 11:41:35 PM 673 Views
I think it's interesting - 24/01/2011 09:23:40 AM 684 Views
There has been ta'veren since Hawkwing and before the Triple. - 28/01/2011 11:56:46 AM 677 Views
Who were they? - 29/01/2011 12:33:58 AM 626 Views
Um, no - 23/01/2011 11:36:24 AM 755 Views
look around you again - 23/01/2011 03:24:01 PM 708 Views
Re: look around you again - 23/01/2011 03:54:49 PM 719 Views
Seanchan equality before the law - 23/01/2011 04:09:54 PM 757 Views
Re: Seanchan equality before the law - 23/01/2011 04:22:28 PM 720 Views
a) most of that is your own extrapolation, not shown in the text - 23/01/2011 04:56:14 PM 712 Views
Yes. - 23/01/2011 04:47:30 PM 693 Views
Mostly, yes. - 23/01/2011 05:57:17 PM 691 Views
Re: Mostly, yes. - 23/01/2011 06:10:10 PM 681 Views
Re: Mostly, yes. - 23/01/2011 06:33:00 PM 713 Views
Re: Mostly, yes. - 23/01/2011 11:03:36 PM 665 Views
Not really - 23/01/2011 07:12:27 PM 679 Views
I disagree. - 25/01/2011 07:17:18 PM 678 Views
I see them as neccessary evil to eventually eliminate channeling. - 24/01/2011 08:04:21 PM 774 Views
Lack of knowledge doesn't mean the One Power vanishes or is destroyed. - 26/01/2011 04:03:22 PM 601 Views
If OP still existed, you'd still have sparkers even "today". *NM* - 26/01/2011 06:34:50 PM 355 Views
Not exactly; genetics are more complicated. - 27/01/2011 09:48:48 PM 652 Views
No - 25/01/2011 05:41:09 PM 759 Views
Ah, um, no. - 29/01/2011 11:53:16 PM 668 Views
The thing is - 04/02/2011 05:29:15 AM 628 Views
They didn't break anything - 04/02/2011 02:13:10 PM 670 Views
Contemplate this then.... - 04/02/2011 10:29:09 PM 694 Views
Re: Contemplate this then.... - 06/02/2011 12:44:21 AM 667 Views

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