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Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM
You know I've always wondered about the strength and dexterity thing. If the strongest possible man and the strongest possible woman can do absolutely everything to the same extent individually (talents, experience, knowledge not withstanding), what balances out the woman's ability to link?


The balance is that men can handle more of the One Power flowing through their bodies in general, and in certain Links, they need to lead. In all fairness, it's a nebulous question. It is somewhat like asking 'Women can get pregnant and men can't. What is the men's balance for this?' I don't believe any of these abilities were supposed to be "balanced with each other" insomuch as they were simply facts to be dealt with.

And if the strongest woman can do everything the strongest man can do, and vice versa, then is dexterity not just another name for strength, since in the end they don't grant different things?


Yes, which is why I think RJ was trying his hardest to get away from the term 'strength' as used by fans. The characters used that because they are in the world, but if you mean strength to indicate effectiveness, than it really is more nebulous than just taking into account magnitude of Power the body can handle before being destroyed. It is noteworthy that the more dangerous Forsaken don't use the term 'strength' the same way the Third Age channelers do to refer to channeling - they tend to refer to training instead.

Is greater dexterity better suited for certain tasks and greater strength for others?


Yes; we are told that in the Age of Legends, the Hall or Servants chose its' agents and mission leaders based upon particular criteria needed to best accomplish a task. Some tasks required more power, others a certain balance of skills, and etc.

A good example would be Healing; if the Hall needed a very complex Healing to be performed, they would look for the most skilled Healer/Restorer that was available, not necessarily the most powerful of oldest. Nynaeve, in terms of Healing, is much more powerful than Rand could ever dream to be, so for this task, he would not be of much assistance.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 03/02/2011 at 07:05:25 PM
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... Shannow - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2339 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1268 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? Shannow - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1289 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1228 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1223 Views
fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1092 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1302 Views
Bullshit... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1069 Views
Unbiased view... Nargs - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1205 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* Ghavrel - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 628 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 560 Views
Don't agree Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1186 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1070 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1129 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... Shannow - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1129 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 1019 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1123 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1121 Views
here ya go they were all Forced darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 991 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1071 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1247 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Shannow - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1163 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Master Ablar - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1163 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1086 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1117 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1097 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 923 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 586 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1141 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 992 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1054 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 1022 Views
How... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 976 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1206 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1116 Views
Got you now... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1047 Views
You're clearly delusional... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1046 Views
You sound ridiculous Nargs - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1072 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous Kieran - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1135 Views
Ok... Nargs - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 999 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 1025 Views
Where on earth does it say Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did? darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:06:48 PM 1133 Views
Re: How... Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1187 Views
They're very close now... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1165 Views
That is unfortunately not true... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1145 Views
It is... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 987 Views
Re: It is... Sidious - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1238 Views
Yup... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 1011 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1411 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1085 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1341 Views
No Sidious - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1120 Views
CLAPS *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 615 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... Shannow - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 1000 Views
Indeed Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 1002 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1105 Views
I agree with you here darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 1014 Views
I don't think that's true.. fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 954 Views
the evidence is that Aginor burnt out trying to channel the Eye and Rand didn't darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:23:50 PM 929 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1228 Views
I think this is a no brainer Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1174 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 996 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 990 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1078 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 972 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 945 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 1007 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... Shannow - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 1017 Views
Nynaeve's strength Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1107 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 672 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1154 Views
Minor quibbles aside... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1145 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 963 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1096 Views
shrugs darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 1020 Views
Re: shrugs fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1053 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 950 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 982 Views
Thanks for clarifying darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 934 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 987 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 527 Views
Cool! *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 560 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 951 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1336 Views
well... Sidious - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1076 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work Shannow - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 987 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 684 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1050 Views
Yup. fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 960 Views
Trivial darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 981 Views
Uhhh... no... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 884 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... Shannow - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1040 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1060 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... Shannow - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 1010 Views
wrong darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1097 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... Shannow - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 984 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 1030 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 627 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 542 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 874 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1226 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 979 Views
And a 1000 years ago... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 1011 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1091 Views
Circular reasoning... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1040 Views
No, reasoning based on facts and what RJ said, both of which you ignore... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:34:21 PM 1288 Views
If you're going to ignore direct quotes, then we may as well stop right now... Shannow - 06/02/2011 08:42:40 PM 1128 Views
Agreed. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1089 Views
Agree. *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 628 Views
agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 645 Views
off tangent question: Has Nynaeve yet to reach full potential or did she already after being ... Bookwyrm - 04/02/2011 08:39:29 PM 1094 Views
I think the general concensus is that after the CK she was forced to her full potential darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:44:29 PM 1029 Views
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