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I think this is a no brainer Sidious Send a noteboard - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM

IMO Moghedien is clearly the weakest Forsaken by a far margin. Its the whole reason she's the Spider. She survives by being stealthy and sneaky. It compensates for her weakness.

Asmodean has no such limitations and has never been mentioned as such. He's not a high tier Forsaken like Demandred, or brave like Sammael, but it would be outrageous to place him weaker than Moghedien!

Lanfear said that when he broke his shield it would take him months before he could challenge Rand, which means that he has very high strength in the Power.

One book later Rand was stronger than Rahvin. It's unlikely Asmodean is much weaker than this, if at all. Considering Asmodean has no known Talents or rare skills, I think he relies on his great strength to stay alive, much like Aran'gar.
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... Shannow - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2354 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1295 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? Shannow - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1338 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1257 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1250 Views
fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1109 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1335 Views
Bullshit... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1091 Views
Unbiased view... Nargs - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1227 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* Ghavrel - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 638 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 569 Views
Don't agree Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1204 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1100 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1153 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... Shannow - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1159 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 1044 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1152 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1152 Views
here ya go they were all Forced darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 1019 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1090 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1266 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Shannow - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1186 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Master Ablar - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1181 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1107 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1148 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1116 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 959 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 598 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1158 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 1023 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1073 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 1052 Views
How... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 1003 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1253 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1148 Views
Got you now... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1065 Views
You're clearly delusional... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1079 Views
You sound ridiculous Nargs - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1109 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous Kieran - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1164 Views
Ok... Nargs - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 1014 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 1065 Views
Where on earth does it say Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did? darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:06:48 PM 1168 Views
Re: How... Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1209 Views
They're very close now... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1199 Views
That is unfortunately not true... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1163 Views
It is... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 1004 Views
Re: It is... Sidious - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1257 Views
Yup... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 1031 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1440 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1115 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1362 Views
No Sidious - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1155 Views
CLAPS *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 626 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... Shannow - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 1019 Views
Indeed Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 1021 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1132 Views
I agree with you here darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 1049 Views
I don't think that's true.. fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 980 Views
the evidence is that Aginor burnt out trying to channel the Eye and Rand didn't darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:23:50 PM 961 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1257 Views
I think this is a no brainer Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1200 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 1022 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1017 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1102 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 996 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 962 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 1054 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... Shannow - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 1043 Views
Nynaeve's strength Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1148 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 682 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1178 Views
Minor quibbles aside... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1179 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 994 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1122 Views
shrugs darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 1048 Views
Re: shrugs fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1076 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 974 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 1003 Views
Thanks for clarifying darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 956 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 1013 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 537 Views
Cool! *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 570 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 970 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1358 Views
well... Sidious - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1095 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work Shannow - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 1006 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 692 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1078 Views
Yup. fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 984 Views
Trivial darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 1004 Views
Uhhh... no... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 904 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... Shannow - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1065 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1084 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... Shannow - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 1032 Views
wrong darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1121 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... Shannow - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 1011 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 1059 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 636 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 552 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 896 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1256 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 1018 Views
And a 1000 years ago... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 1029 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1133 Views
Circular reasoning... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1069 Views
No, reasoning based on facts and what RJ said, both of which you ignore... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:34:21 PM 1312 Views
If you're going to ignore direct quotes, then we may as well stop right now... Shannow - 06/02/2011 08:42:40 PM 1158 Views
Agreed. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1107 Views
Agree. *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 638 Views
agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 658 Views
off tangent question: Has Nynaeve yet to reach full potential or did she already after being ... Bookwyrm - 04/02/2011 08:39:29 PM 1108 Views
I think the general concensus is that after the CK she was forced to her full potential darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:44:29 PM 1049 Views
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