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actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM
You're completely mistaken that Egwene was only forced by the Seanchan. Siuan wouldn't have apologized to her for that, because Siuan played no role in that. We know that before being captured, Egwene was fairly negligible in power.

By the time the whole Seanchan incident is done, we learn that Egwene is as strong as an Aes Sedai. This means she went from typical Novice strength to full Aes Sedai strength in a couple of months. Siuan also says that all three have gained much strength:

It seems you have all increased your ability to channel
remarkably since you left the Tower.

That conclusively proves that it isn't just the Senachan who cause forcing.

Further, at this point, Nynaeve is again stated as being as strong as any woman in the Tower:

Verin says you are already as strong as any woman in the Tower.

Further, she says:

But each of you is more than a match for Liandrin in sheer power, and she is the strongest of them.

She also says the only reason Elayne isn't included in the BA hunt is because she's Daughter Heir, implying that Elayne is stronger than Liandrin at this point.

Which means Egwene was likely very close to Elaida's strength level as well, making her close to Nynaeve in strength.

Yet, one book later, Egwene says she isn't all that much stronger than Moiraine, but Nynaeve has leaped up to Moghedien levels.

This proves two things to me:

1) There is no way Moiraine is just 30 compared to Moggy's 70-80.

2) Nynaeve got forced quite a bit as the leader of the anti-BA expedition.

Exactly one book later, Egwene can still be shielded by Amys. One book after that, we know Elayne is stronger than even Myrelle, while Egwene is still clearly stronger.

By the next book (aCoS), Nynaeve is unable to easily shield Elayne, and Nicola implies that Egwene has reached closer to her potential faster than anyone else. This either implies Nynaeve is proportionally farther than her full strength, or that Nicola discounts her since she's been channeling for quite some time.

Either way, all these women are still jumping in strength way more than others possibly could. Which means they're still being forced.


Please show me the quote that says Egwene is only barely stronger than Moiraine at the time of tSR, because what I've got is this:


The Shadow Rising:

"I am stronger than Moiraine, she would be whimpering...or insensible if she tried to hold as much as I hold now" - Egwene (Ch. 7).

That in no way implies that she is only barely stonger than Moiraine.

In the same book, she meets Amys, who is very close to Moiraine in strength. Amys says the following:

"You are far stronger than I" - Amys to Egwene (Ch. 35).

Egwene is clearly significantly stronger than Moiraine at this point in the series.

Lastly, in Winter's Heart Elayne states that although she and Egwene have the same potential, Egwene is stronger because SHE HAD BEEN FORCED. This contradicts your statement that all three of the wondergirls had been forced. Elayne clearly states that Egwene had been forced, but not Elayne herself, thus explaining their strength difference.

So the forcing does not refer to the Black Ajah hunt, but to Egwene's captivity under the Seanchan.



as Sidious notes above Moiraine would have burnt out if Egwene was significantly stronger than Moiraine ... not be "insensible" ... Amys is in the same range as Moiraine so clearly Egwene is stronger than her too.

Also I'm sure there is an RJ quote saying all 3 had been forced... Egwene obviously the most.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... Shannow - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2355 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1295 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? Shannow - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1339 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1258 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1251 Views
fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1109 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1335 Views
Bullshit... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1091 Views
Unbiased view... Nargs - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1227 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* Ghavrel - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 638 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 569 Views
Don't agree Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1204 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1100 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1153 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... Shannow - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1159 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 1044 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1152 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1154 Views
here ya go they were all Forced darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 1019 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1090 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1266 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Shannow - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1187 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Master Ablar - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1181 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1108 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1148 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1117 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 960 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 598 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1158 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 1024 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1073 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 1052 Views
How... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 1003 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1254 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1149 Views
Got you now... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1065 Views
You're clearly delusional... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1081 Views
You sound ridiculous Nargs - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1109 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous Kieran - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1165 Views
Ok... Nargs - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 1014 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 1066 Views
Where on earth does it say Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did? darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:06:48 PM 1168 Views
Re: How... Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1210 Views
They're very close now... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1200 Views
That is unfortunately not true... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1163 Views
It is... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 1004 Views
Re: It is... Sidious - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1257 Views
Yup... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 1031 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1440 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1115 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1363 Views
No Sidious - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1155 Views
CLAPS *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 626 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... Shannow - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 1019 Views
Indeed Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 1022 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1134 Views
I agree with you here darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 1049 Views
I don't think that's true.. fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 980 Views
the evidence is that Aginor burnt out trying to channel the Eye and Rand didn't darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:23:50 PM 962 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1257 Views
I think this is a no brainer Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1200 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 1024 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1018 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1103 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 996 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 962 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 1054 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... Shannow - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 1043 Views
Nynaeve's strength Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1148 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 682 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1178 Views
Minor quibbles aside... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1179 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 994 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1123 Views
shrugs darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 1049 Views
Re: shrugs fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1076 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 974 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 1004 Views
Thanks for clarifying darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 956 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 1013 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 537 Views
Cool! *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 570 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 971 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1358 Views
well... Sidious - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1095 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work Shannow - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 1006 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 692 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1078 Views
Yup. fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 984 Views
Trivial darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 1004 Views
Uhhh... no... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 904 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... Shannow - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1065 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1084 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... Shannow - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 1032 Views
wrong darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1121 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... Shannow - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 1011 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 1059 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 636 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 552 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 896 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1257 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 1018 Views
And a 1000 years ago... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 1029 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1133 Views
Circular reasoning... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1069 Views
No, reasoning based on facts and what RJ said, both of which you ignore... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:34:21 PM 1312 Views
If you're going to ignore direct quotes, then we may as well stop right now... Shannow - 06/02/2011 08:42:40 PM 1159 Views
Agreed. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1107 Views
Agree. *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 638 Views
agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 658 Views
off tangent question: Has Nynaeve yet to reach full potential or did she already after being ... Bookwyrm - 04/02/2011 08:39:29 PM 1108 Views
I think the general concensus is that after the CK she was forced to her full potential darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:44:29 PM 1051 Views
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