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No Sidious Send a noteboard - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM
There's no clear pecking order.

Mesaana had to convince Moridin that Semirhage wasn't trying to kill Rand. Clearly its not difficult for anyone to believe. Its silly to think that these 'levels' even exist. There's a really good chance that none of the female Forsaken know how strong the males are and vice-versa, and is there even any evidence that Demandred has been near to Sammael while he's holding his maximum. Not even WE know if Demandred is stronger than Sammael, we just assume it to be so.

To base Forsaken strength on their statements is insane, unless they directly compare their power, which has only happened on a handful of occasions. Graendal is factually the deadliest of the Forsaken ... She's openly killed two of them, and under other circumstances she could have killed Moghedien, Cyndane and even Sammael.

Graendal wants to 'throw herself on Demandred's mercy' yet she calls him a fool to his face, and openly threatens to kill both Lanfear and Sammael, and she has no problem plotting the demise of the greatest of them all, Moridin.

This pecking order is an illusion, and would only occur if you lined them up in some sort of Mortal Kombat round to see who's stronger. Practically all of them have real chances to best the others. I fail to see how strength levels can create definitive tiers between these channelers, especially when we've seen Cyndane fight enormous odds related to strength, and Graendal prepared to take on both Moghedien and Cyndane. Its like saying that Sheriam is weaker than Moiraine and that makes a pecking order that shows how Sheriam will always lose to Moiraine and 'respects' her because of it. Meanwhile, down the line, Verin could give Moiraine a run for her money and not necessarily lose either.
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2338 Views
Huh? - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1267 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1288 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1227 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1222 Views
- 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1091 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1302 Views
Bullshit... - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1068 Views
Unbiased view... - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1204 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 628 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 560 Views
Don't agree - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1186 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1069 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1127 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1128 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 1019 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1122 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1120 Views
here ya go they were all Forced - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 990 Views
Nope... - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1071 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1247 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1163 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1163 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1085 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1117 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1096 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 923 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 586 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1140 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 992 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1053 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 1022 Views
How... - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 975 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1206 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1116 Views
Got you now... - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1047 Views
You're clearly delusional... - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1046 Views
You sound ridiculous - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1071 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1135 Views
Ok... - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 998 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 1025 Views
Re: How... - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1186 Views
They're very close now... - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1164 Views
That is unfortunately not true... - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1144 Views
It is... - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 986 Views
Re: It is... - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1237 Views
Yup... - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 1010 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1410 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1084 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1341 Views
No - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1120 Views
CLAPS *NM* - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 615 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 1000 Views
Indeed - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 1001 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1104 Views
I agree with you here - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 1013 Views
I don't think that's true.. - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 954 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1228 Views
I think this is a no brainer - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1174 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 996 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 989 Views
Disagree... - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1077 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 971 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 944 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 1007 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 1017 Views
Nynaeve's strength - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1106 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 672 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1153 Views
Minor quibbles aside... - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1144 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 962 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1095 Views
shrugs - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 1020 Views
Re: shrugs - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1053 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 949 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 981 Views
Thanks for clarifying - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 933 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 986 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 527 Views
Cool! *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 560 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 951 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1336 Views
well... - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1075 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 987 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 684 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1049 Views
Yup. - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 959 Views
Trivial - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 980 Views
Uhhh... no... - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 884 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1039 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1059 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 1010 Views
wrong - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1096 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 983 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 1029 Views
Yes. *NM* - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 627 Views
Yes. *NM* - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 542 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 874 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1225 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 978 Views
And a 1000 years ago... - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 1010 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1090 Views
Circular reasoning... - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1039 Views
Agreed. - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1088 Views
Agree. *NM* - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 628 Views
agreed *NM* - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 645 Views

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