Active Users:325 Time:04/07/2025 01:10:17 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... Shannow Send a noteboard - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM
so while they do deliberately exclude the 37.5% who are too weak, there are a huge number of women (over 99%) with the ability who NEVER GO TO THE TOWER. So the Tower merely excludes the 37.5% of women too weak who show up in TV.

With active recruiting and them finding every woman with the ability and training her you would be correct in the average AS would be much stronger than the average woman. Fact is they've found women that fall squarely in the 50% and lower range for centuries. Their very perception of strength is skewed based on the women who come to the Tower.

Why else would some speculate that Sharina may be the maximum possible strength level? The Whites may have worked out their own Bell Curve and realized that her strength being more than 2x some of the Strongest AS means something.


The fact is that for every Sharina who has no interest in the Tower and who is therefore missed out, there will be a corresponding Verin and Dagian and Sorilea level channeler who is also randomly missed out.

Therefore, even if the Tower only finds 1% of all channelers, this 1% is a random distribution of the entire channeling spectrum. Random, except for the 37.5% weakest level channelers who are DELIBERATELY excluded.

There is no reason why more strong women than weak women would be missed out on this random basis that you are proposing.

Aes Sedai come from every nation in Randland, and would include equal numbers of strong and weak channelers. If no selection policy existed, they should be very close to a perfectly representative sample of the entire continent's channeling population.

There is no reason whatsoever that only women around the 50% mark or weaker should arrive at Tar Valon. None whatsoever.

So if there are 99% of channelers still out there, then they should have the same strength distribution as the Aes Sedai in the Tower. Except that the Tower selection is skewed to the stronger side, due to the 37.5% that are deliberately excluded, and thus moving the Aes Sedai mean strength higher than the mean strength of the general population.

Statistically, there is no way around this.

For every Sharina that is never tested, there is also a Morgase that is never tested. Because they are missed randomly, and not through a policy of deliberate exclusion.

The only factor that will skew the Aes Sedai sample, is the deliberate exclusion of the weakest 37.5% of women.

This is proven by the fact that only 12.5% of ALL channelers fall between Dagian and the average woman's strength.
Reply to message
Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... Shannow - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2345 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1280 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? Shannow - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1307 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1239 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1232 Views
fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1100 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1322 Views
Bullshit... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1081 Views
Unbiased view... Nargs - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1212 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* Ghavrel - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 632 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 563 Views
Don't agree Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1195 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1081 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1139 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... Shannow - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1144 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 1029 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1136 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1133 Views
here ya go they were all Forced darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 1002 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1078 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1258 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Shannow - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1174 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Master Ablar - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1170 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1097 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1127 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1105 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 936 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 589 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1149 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 1005 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1063 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 1039 Views
How... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 988 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1228 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1131 Views
Got you now... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1055 Views
You're clearly delusional... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1065 Views
You sound ridiculous Nargs - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1085 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous Kieran - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1149 Views
Ok... Nargs - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 1006 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 1041 Views
Where on earth does it say Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did? darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:06:48 PM 1155 Views
Re: How... Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1197 Views
They're very close now... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1184 Views
That is unfortunately not true... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1154 Views
It is... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 993 Views
Re: It is... Sidious - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1248 Views
Yup... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 1021 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1424 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1101 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1352 Views
No Sidious - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1132 Views
CLAPS *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 619 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... Shannow - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 1010 Views
Indeed Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 1011 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1120 Views
I agree with you here darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 1026 Views
I don't think that's true.. fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 965 Views
the evidence is that Aginor burnt out trying to channel the Eye and Rand didn't darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:23:50 PM 945 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1240 Views
I think this is a no brainer Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1186 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 1009 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1001 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1091 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 984 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 954 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 1036 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... Shannow - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 1030 Views
Nynaeve's strength Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1133 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 675 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1161 Views
Minor quibbles aside... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1156 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 977 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1107 Views
shrugs darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 1032 Views
Re: shrugs fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1063 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 962 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 990 Views
Thanks for clarifying darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 945 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 998 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 530 Views
Cool! *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 565 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 961 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1346 Views
well... Sidious - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1082 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work Shannow - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 996 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 688 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1063 Views
Yup. fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 974 Views
Trivial darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 990 Views
Uhhh... no... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 893 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... Shannow - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1049 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1069 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... Shannow - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 1023 Views
wrong darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1107 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... Shannow - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 995 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 1043 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 632 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 545 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 883 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1242 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 993 Views
And a 1000 years ago... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 1019 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1107 Views
Circular reasoning... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1054 Views
No, reasoning based on facts and what RJ said, both of which you ignore... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:34:21 PM 1296 Views
If you're going to ignore direct quotes, then we may as well stop right now... Shannow - 06/02/2011 08:42:40 PM 1135 Views
Agreed. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1098 Views
Agree. *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 631 Views
agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 650 Views
off tangent question: Has Nynaeve yet to reach full potential or did she already after being ... Bookwyrm - 04/02/2011 08:39:29 PM 1101 Views
I think the general concensus is that after the CK she was forced to her full potential darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:44:29 PM 1038 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes