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I agree DomA Send a noteboard - 11/05/2012 02:51:38 PM
Not quite sure I'd qualify her as "ideal leader", but she's made massive bounds in her leadership and political approach since KOD.

Egwene has learned all she needed from Siuan about craftiness and "wedge politics" - enough to realize it would be highly damageable for the Tower if she were to continue to lead this way (which wasn't all different from the way Rand lead, just involving less verbal violence and tantrums). In TGS, she realized how little different she was from Elaida, and if she went on dividing the Tower as she had done the rebel factions to manage to stay on top and increase her power as Amyrlin, she's become a tyrant like Elaida, and would destroy the Tower. Being cut off from Siuan and her influence has done wonders for Egwene's progress to a more mature and balanced leader.

The last major crucibles for Egwene's leadership will be the meeting at Merrilor then the LB itself, but she's a much wiser leader already since COT/KOD.

Someone has obviously missed the signs. Just one small e.g.: Egwene by COT glorified herself that she had built this image of a really fearsome leader among the novices - the new Sereille Bagand no less. At 18 y.o. she had already created this chasm between women of her generation and herself.

RJ "reminded her" through KOD/TGS she wasn't so far from a novice herself that in the right dress she couldn't easily pass for one and be treated like one, and gave her a hefty dose of what it meant to be a mere pawn under a tyrant, and one who hated her and wished to break her. One of the things that "saved" Egwene, or made her predicament more bearable, came from one of Egwene's early gestures of leniency/empathy as Amyrlin for someone who like her strived to move fast and learn everything (not to mention Egwene putting her foot down when Siuan suggested to kill the woman!): Nicola always remembered how Egwene had treated her, with authority certainly but with fairness and respect. Nicola made the novices understand who Egwene really was beneath the stern Amyrlin mask, and she became their idol, and "one of us" - which advantage she solidified during the Seanchan attack, becoming their "hero" the novices won't soon forget. That reputation will continue to be be spread, now from the Tower Novices who worship Egwene and saw her as "novice" to the Rebel Novices who feared her. The base is starting to admire and respect Egwene, which will sooner or later greatly solidify her leadership.

Egwene has filled the chasm she had dug between her and the novices, and on the way bridged the ones she was digging between her and the Sisters, her and the Sitters. She is very likely to reap the same reward from having acted much the same way she did with Nicola with Logain. Those were seeds Egwene planted before Siuan transformed her into a fearsome and devious political bulldozer in order to control a bunch of wolves that would have eaten her up for breakfast without a second thought.

In TGS, Egwene finally learned how far she could pursue this "the end justifies the means" principle Siuan had drilled into her (to an extent, as other things in Egwene's path since chilhood, from home to the WO, made her resist the worse extremes Siuan considered coolly, like assassination), and what this philosophy of leadership had done to the Tower. And it's not only Siuan, Egwene also got inspired from watching the early times of Rand's rise, watching how the Aiel (but the Shaido) simply all fell behind him. She never saw how Rand's style became tyranny and a dead end, with even the Aiel becoming more and more averse to his leadership. Elaida's Tower was nothing but this kind of politics and values pushed to the breaking point (Mesaana was so succesful because Elaida herself wished so much to divide to rule. The Shadow just pushed and pulled a bit, deepening the divisions), and Egwene saw that. Siuan is far from as corrupted with power as Elaida was, but her political philosophy had the same taint she initially passed to Egwene. Egwene needed it to survive as Amyrlin initially, now she's learned there are other, preferable ways to be a strong leader.

For everything concerning the Tower and its affairs, Egwene has pretty much become the sort of leader they need. They need a strong hand able to steer - the fact Aes Sedai are so independant and used to take matters in their own hands force them to have a strong leader able to focus them - but the strong hand of a first among equals, not that of a tyrant looking for every available wedge to divide the women under her to stay on top. One of Egwene's wisest decisions was to prevent any triumphalism from the Rebellion. She didn't need to proclaim aloud she made the same mistakes, the sisters all knew that by condemning the rebellion and divisions in general publicly she included her role as its leader, and meant the Tower to put all that behind it and move on.

The next thing for Egwene to work on is her too traditional vision of the Tower's political role. She has brought the Tower more prestige and power already, and the sisters see this and will push hard for her to take this advantage and run with it. But the same as she distanced herself from Siuan's views to rule AS, Egwene will have to adopt a whole new approach for AS to deal with the nations and rulers. She needs to build their trust and their respect for Aes Sedai, reject the temptation to place AS a bit above other humans. The very same things she's learned about the traps of bullying, wedge politics, dictatorship to deal with AS internal politics, Egwene now has to apply to how the WT deal with the nations and other channelling groups. Her first instincts preparing for Merrilor was again to pit one group against Rand. She'll need to change her plans and perception of her role before the end of that meeting.

It won't be that difficult after all she's learned in TGS/TOM (it will be much harder for the sisters to accept that than for Egwene), she just needs to remember Emond's Field and how much troubles Nynaeve who worked through bullying and "terror" had, that her mother, father, Tam etc. didn't have. Perrin proved that EF was not quite as averse to young leaders as their reactions to Nynaeve could have let believe. It may well be that watching Perrin lead will be a final turning point for Egwene.

That's clearly the path RJ intended for Egwene... her late story arc was full of allusions to Egwene merging all she's learned, all she's become, with a rediscovery of the "real" Egwene within the Amyrlin. It was marked with a return to her roots: it all started with a wild ride in the night to "do things her own way" but forgetting the responsabilities she had as leader. This was a clear allusion to the flight from EF in EOTW - RJ even made it more obvious by including the detail of a bat in the moonlight, to allude to the draghkar. Then Egwene became a novice. She fell back on being a Dreamer, fell back on her training with the WO. Then it went even further, with her treated as badly by Elaida has she was by the Seanchan, with even her channeling heavily constrained by forkroot as an allusion to the a'dam. Then it symbolically went the furthest, when Egwene was merely a serving maid, the Innskeeper's daughter again and that lead her to her "epiphany" for which Jordan returned to her experience with the Tinkers in EOTW where she was everything at once (a variation of Rand briefly gaining all his dragon memories and merging for good with LTT): Amyrlin, Aes Sedai, Novice, Dreamer all merged into the life loving innskeeper's daughter again. Then in the Seanchan attack, she became like the embodiement of saidar itself.

Egwene's got a path in many ways similar to Moiraine's. It just took her much longer than Moiraine to understand that to use saidar you can't force it, you must first surrender to it then gently guide it, and even then it will have a mind of its own, there are limits to guidance, saidar has its own rules and you can't make it do whatever you wish, you need to follow its rules.

Those who think RJ was setting up Egwene for the political fall will be disappointed, I think (that doesn't mean it's impossible Egwene dies during the LB, of course, but I think there's zero chance she dies a shameful death caused by collapse of her character as "her mistakes" suddenly all pile up and fall on her heads. By this point in the finale, Egwene has surmounted/atoned for most of her mistakes - just like it happened with Rand, they've shaped her into what she is now rather than destroyed her as they would have if Egwene had pursued to the end her plan to divide the Tower from the inside instead of working to heal it and make it strong again. She understood in the end the Aes Sedai's had been their own worst enemy. She will realize the Light has also been its worst enemy as well, the part the WT played in that and how it must take an unexpected turn now, to make the Light strong just as she made the Tower strong. That won't be her sole achievement, it's something she won't do without Rand. It's not only Egwene who's back to a little shade of her previous style as Amyrlin, it's also Rand who's also showing signs of reverting to his way of imposing his decisions. Both will have to compromise, I think. It's more about all of them reachign a consensus to work together. The Shadow has launched an attack on Caemlyn, it makes Rand's whole reasonning he must break the last seals to precipitate the LB because they've reached the point where waiting anymore would mean the world may be too weak later to face the lB a bit obsolete. Not completely, because Rand will still argue that the seals will have to be removed before the end, and that they must proceed with the sealing now when they're still strong, not embark of a long protracted war and break the seals at the last minutes when they have few choices left to act, and are much weakened. That was what LTT was cornered into, and Rand intends to avoid that. Breaking the seals was also to force the Shadow's hand and precipitate the LB not on their schedule but the Light's. This appears to have failed, if the attack on Caemlyn is what we think it is. Perhaps Rand will change his plans a bit, be forced to face the initial onslaught first. It does sound a bit silly to go and increase Shai'tan's power right when the Shadow is on the attack. Rand meant to break them then for the Light to take the initiative before the Shadow could take the advantage of the DO's increased powers. The situation has changed. Rand might be convinced to wait - not very long because the possible attrition of the Light remains a reality - but a while, to let the Light face the initial onslaught. It looks like neither Egwene nor Rand might "win" the debate. Rand will have to wait longer than he wished, Egwene will have to accept his rationale for not waiting too long to break the seals, the importance to take the initiative when they can. The Light always appear to open up more choices and alternatives when it decides to act, rather than react to the Shadow, even when there are risks involved in acting, and unforeseen consequences. It's very similar to that element of Elayne's storylines. She managed to put a stress on the Pattern when she decided to take advantage of a prophecy that meant her death wouldn't occur any time soon. There were high risks, there were some collateral damages, but Eayne has also opened up new possibilities that suddenly let the Wheel bring together many threads toward "nexus points". It's her decision to use Min's viewing to justify her personal attack on Shiaine's house that precipitated the chain reaction that unexpectedly put her on the throne the same day, a most unlikely outcome had she remained in the palace doing nothing, waiting to react. So there are big rewards in doing this. And you know... I'm sure what finished to decide the Shadow to strike at Caemlyn and start the LB when they did may have something to do with the fact Shiaine told Moridin Elayne has tricked the BA and learned of the plan to invade Andor. Moridin/Demandred may have decided they had to speed up their agenda. So Elayne might well have accomplished part of what Rand meant to accomplish by breaking the seals early, opening the door for an initial dead end between Rand and Egwene that news from Caemlyn will break/turn into a compromise to break the seals very soon but not immediately.)

This message last edited by DomA on 11/05/2012 at 03:27:54 PM
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The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 03:52:14 PM 4845 Views
It's pretty damn cool. - 03/05/2012 03:59:36 PM 2491 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 04:08:09 PM 2628 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 04:17:19 PM 2597 Views
the pit of doom is hot - 12/06/2012 01:57:18 AM 2104 Views
I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. - 03/05/2012 04:26:42 PM 2653 Views
yes. I sincerely doubt she has that kind of competency - 03/05/2012 05:52:22 PM 2522 Views
Re: I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. - 04/05/2012 11:10:49 AM 2364 Views
Heh - Cannoli-baiting *NM* - 04/05/2012 04:46:51 PM 1910 Views
*NM* - 05/05/2012 09:04:15 PM 1829 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 05:06:19 PM 2270 Views
I really like it - 03/05/2012 05:54:51 PM 2549 Views
The sword grip is not akward or wrong - 03/05/2012 06:20:54 PM 2290 Views
something like this? - 03/05/2012 06:46:59 PM 2841 Views
Its the sword thats not a sword (its a night light!) - 04/05/2012 04:47:27 PM 2292 Views
oh no fair enough! like i said, I just think it looks a little awkward. - 04/05/2012 10:04:21 PM 2218 Views
Me, too! - 12/05/2012 01:18:06 AM 2344 Views
Well... - 03/05/2012 06:09:51 PM 2630 Views
I think it is EG and Nyn - 03/05/2012 06:24:13 PM 2324 Views
Pretty sure it's Mo and Nyn - 03/05/2012 06:40:49 PM 2384 Views
Yeah... - 03/05/2012 07:55:32 PM 2300 Views
when did Nynaeve cut her hair? - 08/05/2012 07:33:04 PM 3790 Views
It was burned off during her testing for the shawl. - 12/06/2012 02:53:43 AM 3028 Views
Egwene is a distinct possibility... - 03/05/2012 11:37:48 PM 2434 Views
She is - 04/05/2012 12:15:21 AM 2531 Views
I don't know... - 04/05/2012 12:25:53 AM 2263 Views
Re: I don't know... - 04/05/2012 02:47:02 AM 2409 Views
I'm not disagreeing with most of that... - 08/05/2012 02:58:53 AM 2134 Views
"You expect me to wise up?" "No, Egwene, I expect you to DIE!" - 11/05/2012 01:36:09 AM 2358 Views
What books have you been reading? - 11/05/2012 01:57:31 AM 2374 Views
I agree - 11/05/2012 02:51:38 PM 2478 Views
The other quotes you requested, as promised. - 13/05/2012 03:29:41 AM 2450 Views
You misinterpreting quotes is hardly worth requoting... - 13/05/2012 11:36:21 AM 2140 Views
Agreed - 13/05/2012 03:39:12 PM 2245 Views
Exactly... - 13/05/2012 05:53:17 PM 2224 Views
Never said she was evil, just wrong. Horribly and tragically wrong. - 14/05/2012 02:34:27 AM 2276 Views
- 14/05/2012 04:23:21 AM 2176 Views
Re- - 21/05/2012 02:43:49 AM 2647 Views
Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. - 14/05/2012 02:21:42 AM 2254 Views
Then she wouldn't be a "protagonist" - 14/05/2012 04:38:34 AM 2210 Views
Again, I never said she is or will become evil. - 21/05/2012 03:03:32 AM 2351 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. - 14/05/2012 08:32:50 AM 2325 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. - 21/05/2012 03:28:48 AM 2149 Views
For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 14/05/2012 01:58:26 AM 2368 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 14/05/2012 03:51:31 AM 2553 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 14/05/2012 06:41:32 AM 2319 Views
Yeah... - 14/05/2012 07:47:16 AM 2321 Views
Re: Yeah... - 14/05/2012 04:40:49 PM 2383 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 21/05/2012 06:21:48 AM 2297 Views
Look at their foreheads - 16/05/2012 08:38:51 AM 2380 Views
Re: I think it is EG and Nyn - 03/05/2012 07:38:36 PM 2339 Views
I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 03/05/2012 09:05:58 PM 2186 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 03/05/2012 11:28:42 PM 2327 Views
Idea - 04/05/2012 10:11:05 AM 2320 Views
Re: Idea - 04/05/2012 12:09:17 PM 2295 Views
Or.... - 04/05/2012 12:19:16 PM 2165 Views
This would explain the hidden hand - 04/05/2012 08:54:00 PM 2331 Views
That's a good point. - 04/05/2012 08:59:41 PM 2454 Views
Nah... - 07/05/2012 01:56:13 PM 2387 Views
Can you draw a blade - 08/05/2012 06:00:28 AM 2312 Views
It depens on the construction of the scabbard - 10/05/2012 01:36:30 PM 2233 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 04/05/2012 02:49:51 PM 1391 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 04/05/2012 07:42:12 PM 2424 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 07/05/2012 08:02:26 PM 2245 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 07/05/2012 09:32:45 PM 2459 Views
Thanks! *NM* - 13/05/2012 10:56:06 AM 2215 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 07:25:37 PM 2186 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 07:36:09 PM 2295 Views
It's his left hand Rand lost *NM* - 03/05/2012 08:00:01 PM 1854 Views
Thanks for the imput! *NM* - 03/05/2012 08:24:59 PM 2223 Views
I does not look like Nynaeve and Moiraine - 03/05/2012 11:39:01 PM 2267 Views
Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... - 03/05/2012 11:44:50 PM 2402 Views
Re: Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... - 03/05/2012 11:51:02 PM 3242 Views
Am I the only one who sees the red dot in her forehead? *NM* - 09/05/2012 08:36:53 PM 1880 Views
looks *$%$%*@ great *NM* - 04/05/2012 02:47:00 AM 1965 Views
i quite like it! as far as the women go... - 04/05/2012 06:38:10 PM 2388 Views
No Maidens of the Spear - 05/05/2012 05:09:27 PM 2402 Views
Re: No Maidens of the Spear - 07/05/2012 02:02:36 PM 2497 Views
nynaeve with no braid?.... are we sure its not egwene? or did no one tell him the hairstyles? *NM* - 08/05/2012 06:48:49 PM 1771 Views
Nyn cut her braid off. *NM* - 08/05/2012 06:55:02 PM 2007 Views
I thought it was burned off during her test for Aes Sedaihood. *NM* - 08/05/2012 07:25:51 PM 847 Views
I don't remember this at all *NM* - 08/05/2012 07:51:04 PM 1997 Views
Regarding the identities of the women on the back: - 09/05/2012 08:52:47 PM 2472 Views
What the hell is on the ground close to the bottom edge of the picture? *NM* - 10/05/2012 05:55:07 AM 1936 Views
A misplaced logo? *NM* - 10/05/2012 08:24:52 AM 1885 Views
Possibly one of the Seals? - 11/05/2012 01:42:13 AM 2291 Views
agreed - 10/05/2012 07:16:39 AM 2379 Views
Partially concur - 10/05/2012 01:17:31 PM 2191 Views
She's in the Pit of F*ing Doom. Ben Stein would be excited *NM* - 12/05/2012 04:22:44 AM 825 Views
i agree with the big about how Moiraine should be depicted - 12/05/2012 11:04:53 PM 1216 Views
you can see a second weapon in Rand's belt too - 13/05/2012 08:51:34 PM 1186 Views
That looks pretty cool, better than most of the other WoT covers - 26/06/2012 07:37:29 AM 1022 Views

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