Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel...
entyti Send a noteboard - 24/05/2012 07:04:02 PM
It's also confirmed there are corruptions in the Seanchan Prophecies. That verse was always very suspicious as its the foundation of a conflict between the Westlands/WT and the Seanchan, and the justification of the Return. It's central to the Seanchan - it's what they mention to point out the corruption of the western KC. Yet, falsely or not, Ishamael claimed once it was his doing that brought back the Seanchan...
The more reliable prophecy we have is that "He will bind the Nine Moons to him". "He" most likely referring to the Dragon, though we can't be sure without the complete prophecy.
For the other one from Seanchan, we've got different interpretations/wordings by various Seanchan. Some have said the Westland prophecies can't be right, because they do not mention the Dragon serving the Crystal Throne. Is this close to the actual wording or not? Does it specifically mention serving or kneeling - or something else that gets interpreted this way?
The imperial authorities of course worded it differently as the Dragon having to kneel to the CT. How reliable is it, when for people like the Empress you can only serve her by kneeling to her authority? There are many ways to serve, just not in the Empress's worldview, just like there's no way to serve the Seanchan people without serving their Empress like every last Seanchan (technically, even the Empress serves the Crystal Throne... she does it by being Empress, but still serves).
Tuon said Rand had to kneel before the LB, or all was lost. So that prophecy has an "or else" clause of some kind, confirming we don't have the full thing, nor perhaps something close to the actual words. how close was this to the actual wording? What's lost? The LB for everyone? The Seanchan attempt to reconquer the Westlands? The Seanchan Empire itself? We don't know.
The more reliable prophecy we have is that "He will bind the Nine Moons to him". "He" most likely referring to the Dragon, though we can't be sure without the complete prophecy.
For the other one from Seanchan, we've got different interpretations/wordings by various Seanchan. Some have said the Westland prophecies can't be right, because they do not mention the Dragon serving the Crystal Throne. Is this close to the actual wording or not? Does it specifically mention serving or kneeling - or something else that gets interpreted this way?
The imperial authorities of course worded it differently as the Dragon having to kneel to the CT. How reliable is it, when for people like the Empress you can only serve her by kneeling to her authority? There are many ways to serve, just not in the Empress's worldview, just like there's no way to serve the Seanchan people without serving their Empress like every last Seanchan (technically, even the Empress serves the Crystal Throne... she does it by being Empress, but still serves).
Tuon said Rand had to kneel before the LB, or all was lost. So that prophecy has an "or else" clause of some kind, confirming we don't have the full thing, nor perhaps something close to the actual words. how close was this to the actual wording? What's lost? The LB for everyone? The Seanchan attempt to reconquer the Westlands? The Seanchan Empire itself? We don't know.
In Aviendha's vision of the (possible?) future, we see a scene with the Aiel meeting with the queen of Andor. There, the male Aiel mentions that the Seanchan forced Rand to bow to their empress. This was, of course, generations after the event, so his understanding is only so reliable. However, it lends credence to him kneeling to Tuon.
Some other things to consider... corrupted or not, the fact that the Seanchan believe in their prophecy will make things very difficult. It may be that Rand will have to figure out how to fulfill both prophecies: kneeling to the Crystal Throne and binding the Nine Moons to him.
Also, Tuon's musings about Rand needing to kneel to her may have been something akin to the borderland prophecy, meaning that Rand failing to go through his epiphany would mean he would not kneel to her, meaning all was lost.
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aMoL UK cover and Blurb (SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!)
21/05/2012 06:44:26 PM
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Thoughts...
21/05/2012 06:46:41 PM
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Re: Thoughts...
21/05/2012 08:45:41 PM
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Re: Thoughts...
21/05/2012 09:04:09 PM
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Re: Thoughts...
21/05/2012 09:35:29 PM
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Mat and the madness...
21/05/2012 10:30:09 PM
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Nynaeve's revelation may make the AS even more worried of Rand being mad
21/05/2012 10:58:37 PM
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Not Egwene though...
21/05/2012 11:02:41 PM
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Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness
21/05/2012 11:26:41 PM
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Re: Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness
22/05/2012 01:14:05 AM
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Re: Mat and the madness...
22/05/2012 02:29:31 AM
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Rand's dreams...
22/05/2012 02:42:36 AM
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She assumes he's mad just like most people assume a 19 year old boy is horney
22/05/2012 03:47:49 AM
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Everything Egwene's little pea-brain does not grasp has always been a sign of madness to her.
21/05/2012 11:05:44 PM
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Oh read the books will you?
21/05/2012 11:12:06 PM
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I'd rather not. For different reasons, it's kind of painful to read those by either author.
22/05/2012 04:46:20 AM
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What caught my eye there was "Trollocs seize Caemlyn."
22/05/2012 02:12:25 PM
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As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar
22/05/2012 07:20:40 PM
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At this stage, all roads lead to Rand.
22/05/2012 09:08:42 PM
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Re: At this stage, all roads lead to Rand.
23/05/2012 08:07:56 PM
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Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon.
23/05/2012 08:53:53 PM
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Re: Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon.
23/05/2012 09:01:10 PM
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It all depends on whether the actual Crystal Throne is, as many suspect, a ter'angreal.
23/05/2012 09:22:47 PM
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Re: It all depends on whether the actual Crystal Throne is, as many suspect, a ter'angreal.
24/05/2012 07:34:40 AM
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Re: It all depends on whether the actual Crystal Throne is, as many suspect, a ter'angreal.
25/05/2012 01:23:21 AM
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Re: Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon.
24/05/2012 02:41:55 PM
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Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel...
24/05/2012 07:04:02 PM
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Re: Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel...
26/05/2012 09:42:20 PM
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Agreed...
26/05/2012 09:57:06 PM
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I think you are extrapolating some of his actions into more than he intends
26/05/2012 10:37:44 PM
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Re: Agreed...
27/05/2012 04:26:15 AM
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I think you're both wrong...
27/05/2012 08:41:50 AM
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I'm sure that is part of it, but I very much doubt he is thinking in terms of succession
27/05/2012 01:41:37 PM
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I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander
28/05/2012 02:48:26 AM
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Re: I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander
28/05/2012 04:54:46 PM
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That makes no sense
28/05/2012 05:50:16 PM
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Taringail was Laman's heir...
28/05/2012 07:20:07 PM
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You are answering the wrong question
29/05/2012 02:19:48 PM
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No. I've answered the exact question. You seem to have missed it.
29/05/2012 04:40:17 PM
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Yet not one of these things actually happened
29/05/2012 10:13:35 PM
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You're being absurd...
30/05/2012 01:04:36 AM
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Explain why Taringail didn't become King after Laman's death then
30/05/2012 05:48:48 AM
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30/05/2012 06:11:02 AM
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Why then would Taringail, an ambitious man, renounce a Throne?
30/05/2012 06:22:08 AM
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We don't fully know...
30/05/2012 06:43:30 AM
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You just flipped your last statement
30/05/2012 06:55:36 AM
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You seem extremely confused...
30/05/2012 09:56:30 AM
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Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have
30/05/2012 12:15:59 PM
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Re: Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have
30/05/2012 03:34:06 PM
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I am not contesting the information we have
30/05/2012 04:48:08 PM
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You're impossible...
30/05/2012 10:02:59 PM
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Re: Explain why Taringail didn't become King after Laman's death then
30/05/2012 02:22:21 PM
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See this maps back to my original stance ... Thanks for pointing out that Fionwe invented that
30/05/2012 05:09:14 PM
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Good, now you have one last thing (a few inches long) to remember so everything becomes clear....
30/05/2012 10:50:33 PM
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Re: That makes no sense
29/05/2012 04:39:45 PM
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Only one other thing...
29/05/2012 04:53:29 PM
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No. If that was the case Taringail would have been King of Cairhien and not have married Morgase *NM*
30/05/2012 05:52:18 AM
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Bryne was Captain General not First Prince and Taringail was Prince Consort not FP
30/05/2012 06:07:48 AM
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Bryne was First Prince Regent.
30/05/2012 06:19:33 AM
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No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal
26/05/2012 10:33:20 PM
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Re: No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal
27/05/2012 03:23:12 AM
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Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal
27/05/2012 01:50:19 PM
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Re: Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal
27/05/2012 06:44:41 PM
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I'd have to re-read to be 100% certain, but the way I read the passage
28/05/2012 02:10:14 AM
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Re: I'd have to re-read to be 100% certain, but the way I read the passage
28/05/2012 03:33:18 PM
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I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one *NM*
28/05/2012 05:18:40 PM
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He might not literally kneel before the ter'angreal, but almost certainly must meet with Tuon soon.
25/05/2012 03:40:54 AM
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