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Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 18/10/2012 01:23:48 AM

Rulers who want an advisor ask for one, or ask a sister they have met and are comfortable with to fill that role. Sisters who go to rulers and even more nobles most likely do it out of their own initiative (it's what they wish to do as Aes Sedai, be accepted somewhere as advisor) or go under incitive from their Ajah leader who sees interest for the Ajah (I'm betting this is how the Green manage to secure posts as advisors in the Borderlands).

That doesn't make much sense. It totally doesn't fit the Hall's usual MO to simply allow rulers to chose who they like. Maintaining the Tower's relationship with the nations is an extremely important job, and the Aes Sedai advisors to the rulers are some of the most influential Aes Sedai. They're the representatives of the Tower in the court of the rulers. No way is the Hall letting those jobs go without the Ajahs jostling for the influence to be gained by them.
I'm not saying it's never done for the Hall to manoeuvre for a specific sister to be sent to a ruler who lost his advisor, in the hope the ruler would find her agreeable and ask her to join his/her court, but I don't think the fact Elaida became Morgase's advisor had much of anything to do with her strength, nor would the Hall would have done anything had someone like Daigian been the one who got close to Morgase and been asked to become advisor.

I think exactly the reverse is true. I think the Hall maneuvers all the time, and issues like strength in the Power, experience, prior relationship with the rulers, etc. are major points around which the maneuvering revolves. A sister like Daigian isn't impossible as a candidate, but at the stage of her Aes Sedai career that Elaida was, a Daigian would have found things a lot harder.

In Andor in particular, it sounds likely the Queens often asked a sister she met and liked during her studies at the Tower.

Highly unlikely. Morgase was in a unique position of being raised Queen soon after her Tower training. In normal circumstances, the Daighter Heir likely already has a strong relationship with her mother's advisor, and unless a serious break in relations occurs, or the advisor is recalled to the Tower for another job, I don't see how a woman she meets in her few years in the Tower will end up exceeding the many of her formative years she'd have spent with her mother's advisor. Let's remember that unlike Elaida, many other advisors likely have warmer relationships with the monarch's families.

Elaida also had a rare gift in that she saw that Morgase was likely to be queen before the succession was finished, and the previous advisor to Andor wouldn't see her cozying up to Morgase as interference in another sister's affairs (since Gitara had been raised Keeper).

The hierarchy of AS is "secret". To the outside world, outside the Sitters and Amyrlin, a shawl is a shawl.

But of course. I'm not saying the rulers pick the strongest Aes Sedai!

I can't find your answer, the thread's too big.

Here:

"Aes Sedai, then. I wasn't raised Amyrlin because I am the strongest. The wisest women are chosen for the Hall or to be ambassadors or advisors, the most skillful anyway, not those with the most strength."


This is Egwene in aCoS, so she's still naive. But her statement that Sitters, ambassadors and advisors are chosen is pretty clear. There's no way she wouldn't know about this by this point, and no way Siuan wouldn't have corrected her on it.

Also, consider this, from the BWB:

Whether or not love was involved, Ishara knew she needed both Maravaile’s army and the White Tower’s goodwill. Marrying Souran gave her the first; sending her eldest daughter to study in the Tower gained her the second as well as an Aes Sedai advisor named Ballair. She was the first ruler to have an Aes Sedai advisor.

Its pretty clear Bellair came as part of the deal, and not someone Ishara picked.

To all outward appearances, Hawkwing eventually made a peace with the White Tower, if not one with a signed treaty, of course, for Tar Valon was not likely to admit that it had been opposing him. In FY 954, he accepted an Aes Sedai advisor, Chowin Tsao of the Green Ajah. Rulers fighting him also still had advisors from Tar Valon, of course, but the White Tower had always maintained a public stance of neutrality, and it appears that he accepted this posture at least in public.

Apparently a temporary break occurred during the Black Years. Chowin Tsao is his advisor in a fragmentary letter reliably dated in FY 962, but another letter (probably FY 967, by internal evidence) states that “after five years the High King has reconciled with Tar Valon and agreed to accept once more a counselor from among the sisters.”

Again, Hawkwing was sent an advisor, who he accepted. If the Tower would send an advisor to Hawkwing himself, do you think they'll give up that for lesser rulers?
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Misc observations from my latest re-read - 14/10/2012 08:26:37 PM 3332 Views
How does LTT know about Far Madding's history? - 14/10/2012 08:29:13 PM 1879 Views
How Stong was Gitara? - 14/10/2012 08:34:43 PM 1833 Views
So so stong. She had incredible stength. - 14/10/2012 09:04:15 PM 1846 Views
Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live - 14/10/2012 09:22:23 PM 1667 Views
Re: Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live - 14/10/2012 09:36:19 PM 1454 Views
Not in the mood to deal with you ... Go read the Ages section of 13th Depository - 14/10/2012 09:53:14 PM 1489 Views
Not interested in Linda's private theories. - 15/10/2012 02:29:41 AM 1654 Views
And there's Sorilea... - 15/10/2012 02:53:15 AM 1695 Views
Perhaps, but Bair is in her 80s and can't channel at all - 15/10/2012 03:09:35 AM 1451 Views
Problem is... - 14/10/2012 11:52:00 PM 1609 Views
Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear - 15/10/2012 12:07:49 AM 1487 Views
Show me where in the books an adviser is selected by Tower authorities! - 15/10/2012 02:58:19 AM 1476 Views
Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up - 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM 1410 Views
Re: Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up - 15/10/2012 03:35:10 AM 1540 Views
Yet Morgase herself states she didn't consider Elaida a friend - 15/10/2012 03:45:45 AM 1379 Views
How did Gareth Bryne get to stay Captain General, given his lack of respect to Aes Sedai? - 15/10/2012 04:07:07 AM 1542 Views
He was banging the queen - 15/10/2012 04:19:24 AM 1419 Views
And what Aes Sedai gave him permission to bang the queen? - 15/10/2012 04:30:42 AM 1689 Views
here ya go - 15/10/2012 04:39:29 AM 1517 Views
There's an awful lot for "not many" - 15/10/2012 05:07:30 AM 1460 Views
When did I say I bought into Linda's theories? - 15/10/2012 05:29:27 AM 1418 Views
Re: Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear - 15/10/2012 03:15:18 AM 1543 Views
The thing is Elaida had no experience in the arena at all - 15/10/2012 03:25:10 AM 1428 Views
IT IS NOT THE TOWER'S DAMNED JOB! She had more than enough credentials for ANDOR - 15/10/2012 03:45:15 AM 1742 Views
Nope. Every other advisor we've seen has been sent from TV - 15/10/2012 03:50:07 AM 1473 Views
Those are not official advisers, those are ambassadors! - 15/10/2012 04:17:51 AM 1534 Views
So now you are saying that Elaida was a personal advisor not an envoy of the Tower? - 15/10/2012 04:22:31 AM 1473 Views
Finally! I was beginning to despair of your literacy! - 15/10/2012 04:34:18 AM 1500 Views
now I am questioning your literacy *NM* - 15/10/2012 04:40:45 AM 949 Views
She didn't "land it". She took the job for herself... - 15/10/2012 04:00:35 AM 1424 Views
Actually every advisor we've seen except Elaida has been appointed - 15/10/2012 04:11:39 AM 1474 Views
You can bully someone into an act, not a twenty year relationship - 15/10/2012 04:22:16 AM 1582 Views
Not arguing that Morgase had a problem with her - 15/10/2012 04:33:10 AM 1413 Views
We know nothing of the sort. - 15/10/2012 05:14:54 AM 1398 Views
Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned - 15/10/2012 05:39:23 AM 1521 Views
Re: Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned - 17/10/2012 04:15:37 AM 1557 Views
Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 17/10/2012 05:33:01 AM 1469 Views
Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 17/10/2012 01:01:47 PM 1564 Views
Just to be clear - 17/10/2012 03:58:58 PM 1409 Views
Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 18/10/2012 01:23:48 AM 1490 Views
Elayne's thoughts about this - 17/10/2012 04:16:38 PM 1439 Views
And an answer to the rest of your "points" - 15/10/2012 02:48:07 AM 1667 Views
Again. I refer you to Linda's blog. The relevant quotes are there ... Enjoy - 15/10/2012 02:52:03 AM 1465 Views
Oh for the love of...! Here's the relevant quote: - 15/10/2012 04:04:48 AM 1578 Views
Okay, but that's still irrelevant to the Oath Rod & its cutoff period or method, as well as lifespan - 15/10/2012 04:54:26 AM 1436 Views
To quote you RTDB - 15/10/2012 05:16:56 AM 1408 Views
Re: To quote you RTDB - 15/10/2012 05:27:47 AM 1469 Views
Some people look young. - 15/10/2012 05:51:25 AM 1368 Views
I never mentioned the OR... - 16/10/2012 01:38:48 AM 1479 Views
RJ said Sharina would go back to about middle aged - 16/10/2012 02:23:21 AM 1340 Views
And that is probably the ONLY quote that wasn't on Linda's page *NM* - 15/10/2012 04:55:33 AM 855 Views
Told you so. *NM* - 15/10/2012 05:21:58 AM 968 Views
I think so. - 16/11/2012 11:40:17 AM 1608 Views
Aging - 15/10/2012 06:08:47 PM 1543 Views
How old was Lanfear? - 14/10/2012 08:41:35 PM 1499 Views
Re: How old was Lanfear? - 14/10/2012 11:27:12 PM 1552 Views
I couldn't find it - 15/10/2012 12:22:43 AM 1457 Views
Are the Seanchan prophesies false? - 14/10/2012 08:43:55 PM 1613 Views
I've only been saying no for years. - 14/10/2012 09:21:43 PM 1704 Views
Not the same thing - 14/10/2012 09:44:43 PM 1439 Views
Show me some damn PROOF already!! - 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM 1633 Views
Re: I've only been saying no for years. - 14/10/2012 10:15:29 PM 1749 Views
Your argument is based on a faulty premise. - 15/10/2012 08:11:19 PM 1308 Views
Of course there is truth... - 14/10/2012 09:42:24 PM 1543 Views
Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing - 14/10/2012 10:02:40 PM 1472 Views
Re: Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing - 14/10/2012 10:23:17 PM 1537 Views
Hmmm ...I like it! It is actually very similar to what Nynaeve does - 14/10/2012 10:31:48 PM 1588 Views
How do the Black Ajah not figure out who the others are? - 14/10/2012 08:48:14 PM 1513 Views
Who says they can't? - 14/10/2012 09:23:11 PM 1518 Views
True to a point - 14/10/2012 10:00:01 PM 1444 Views
Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC. - 15/10/2012 03:23:16 AM 1470 Views
Perhaps not. But a woman like Sheriam would stick out - 15/10/2012 03:37:12 AM 1373 Views
Re: Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC. - 15/10/2012 03:52:39 AM 1556 Views
But isn't it interesting that Sheriam and Galina, both young and strong are on the SC? - 15/10/2012 04:06:38 AM 1346 Views
Galina isn't young. *NM* - 17/10/2012 03:24:30 AM 957 Views
Yes she is - 17/10/2012 03:46:39 PM 1506 Views
85 years being BA, 90 years as a sister does not qualify her as a "young AS" - 18/10/2012 05:35:33 PM 1494 Views
She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO - 18/10/2012 06:53:54 PM 1428 Views
Re: She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO - 18/10/2012 08:10:58 PM 1465 Views
I think Linda is correct in this particular instance - 19/10/2012 02:14:23 AM 1579 Views
You mean the SC? - 14/10/2012 10:47:31 PM 1514 Views
No others meet as well - 14/10/2012 11:01:21 PM 1490 Views
Re: No others meet as well - 14/10/2012 11:36:50 PM 1466 Views
Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating - 15/10/2012 12:14:36 AM 1346 Views
Re: Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating - 15/10/2012 03:26:59 AM 1478 Views
I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups - 15/10/2012 04:54:04 AM 1429 Views
Re: I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups - 15/10/2012 02:28:45 PM 1540 Views
I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve - 15/10/2012 03:01:20 PM 1337 Views
Re: I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve - 15/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1627 Views
I have a different opinion of Delana - 16/10/2012 01:20:32 AM 1784 Views
Re: I have a different opinion of Delana - 16/10/2012 11:51:34 PM 1417 Views
Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 02:55:19 AM 1476 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 03:40:54 PM 1374 Views
Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts - 18/10/2012 06:57:38 PM 1489 Views
Re: Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts - 18/10/2012 07:26:56 PM 1417 Views
Not a good plan, I'll give you that - 18/10/2012 07:37:45 PM 1525 Views
*sigh* - 18/10/2012 08:25:23 PM 1492 Views
*double sigh* - 19/10/2012 04:03:00 AM 1435 Views
Re: *double sigh* - 19/10/2012 05:48:25 PM 1454 Views
Agreed *NM* - 20/10/2012 04:57:18 PM 842 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 04:59:25 PM 1511 Views
Not conclusive ... in fact the whole bit is vague ... I wonder if RJ would have given us more detail - 18/10/2012 07:23:30 PM 1552 Views
Not conclusive? - 18/10/2012 08:49:49 PM 1356 Views
Don't put words in my mouth that I never said - 19/10/2012 04:08:22 AM 1362 Views
double post *NM* - 19/10/2012 04:08:22 AM 856 Views
Is there a Dark Friend WO? - 14/10/2012 08:51:16 PM 1577 Views
Re: Is there a Dark Friend WO? - 17/10/2012 08:33:27 PM 1600 Views
I'd like to see more discussion on this; I'm curious as well - 18/10/2012 12:44:35 AM 1380 Views
Just a note about Bair - 18/10/2012 07:53:45 AM 1487 Views
I don't see how it could be possible - 23/10/2012 09:31:51 PM 1378 Views
Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers? - 14/10/2012 10:47:55 PM 1675 Views
Re: Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers? - 14/10/2012 11:36:25 PM 1612 Views

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