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I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way. ) Joel Send a noteboard - 19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM
She could have had 100 seasoned veterans and they would have easily fallen to the Shaido... her kidnapping cannot be held against her in the least. You think she should have been hiding in a hole to prevent anything bad from happening to her?

If she had had 100, say, Borderlander regulars, or other Aiel, she probably would at least have had a decent chance to escape. A hundred teenaged Cairhienin nobles playing at being Aiel, however, were useless; she might as well have ridden out alone. Yet, and once again, I do not blame her for her kidnapping; it WAS nonetheless the ultimate cause of Hoppers eternal death (by design, though that was not Sammael and Greandel intended result.) Faile is not responsible nor accountable for that, because she is a fictional character with limited knowledge and even less prescience.

Jordan, however, is not similarly excused by ignorance or unintended consequences: Hopper, like Bela, died because he DELIBERATELY created a loveable and blameless character integral to the narrative just so he could twist a knife it the readers gut by gratuitously torturing and killing said character. Unlike with Rolan and Bela, I do not fault Faile personally for Hoppers eternal death, but he is brutally and permanently killed for the sole purpose of adding color to and advancing her narrative and Perrins, which makes them both that much more infuriating. It is kind of like how Fain hates the ta'veren because he knows getting at them was the sole reason the DO ripped him apart and remade him, destroying him in the process.
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This message last edited by Joel on 19/01/2013 at 08:09:17 PM
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Somehow, I Actually Hate Faile MORE Now - 14/01/2013 12:16:05 PM 3389 Views
Faile made Perrin less interesting - 14/01/2013 01:15:22 PM 1356 Views
She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. - 14/01/2013 02:38:29 PM 1452 Views
I skipped those chapters during my re-read - 14/01/2013 10:36:11 PM 1679 Views
Re: She paralyzed his character development even when Jordan thought she advanced it. - 15/01/2013 12:39:23 AM 1329 Views
You just hit on probably the major structural weakness of the series with respect to characters. - 15/01/2013 02:54:59 AM 1278 Views
I think this is why I still enjoy Rand as a character so much - 15/01/2013 03:37:52 AM 1227 Views
I'm glad you have seen the Truth. - 14/01/2013 01:35:36 PM 1352 Views
It was neck and neck with her and Min for a long while, but Min finally saw past her own nose. - 14/01/2013 02:09:13 PM 1232 Views
I just added a sentence at the end to make the series end properly. - 14/01/2013 10:47:18 PM 1317 Views
Works for me. - 15/01/2013 06:13:16 AM 2237 Views
In all fairness Egwene did in fact pay homage to Bela - 14/01/2013 08:36:40 PM 1197 Views
Bela has been there for Egwene all the time. - 14/01/2013 10:16:22 PM 1430 Views
Egwene and Bela - 15/01/2013 08:13:17 AM 1160 Views
I thought Noal was riding Bela... *NM* - 14/01/2013 10:47:56 PM 616 Views
I did, too, at first, but "horse"=/="pony." - 15/01/2013 06:08:03 AM 1139 Views
The real problem - 15/01/2013 11:30:37 AM 1270 Views
The women in WoT are monsters - 15/01/2013 11:59:39 AM 1662 Views
I do not consider most of the others all that bad, just idiosyncratic. - 15/01/2013 03:05:51 PM 1456 Views
Oh...I think we know :-) *NM* - 16/01/2013 04:31:18 PM 710 Views
I try to give them, or rather her, the benefit of a doubt. - 16/01/2013 04:48:22 PM 1117 Views
Re: Tuon - 15/01/2013 03:33:34 PM 1402 Views
I had not noticed that before, but you are right. - 15/01/2013 07:45:53 PM 1153 Views
I agree completely... - 15/01/2013 05:19:40 PM 1420 Views
Not to argue, but I think RJ created a world where women had the power - 20/01/2013 01:17:11 AM 1280 Views
Agreed ... Nynaeve and Lan are the closest thing to "Healthy" in the series - 20/01/2013 01:09:29 AM 1124 Views
Tell me then... - 18/01/2013 09:08:08 AM 1176 Views
That's a fallacious question - 18/01/2013 03:21:56 PM 1268 Views
Are you saying... - 18/01/2013 09:21:34 PM 1172 Views
That is a pathetic answer. - 19/01/2013 04:56:13 AM 1151 Views
You're a pathetic ass - 19/01/2013 06:48:47 AM 1117 Views
LOL - that's funny, coming from you, one of the most pathetic fanboys around here. *NM* - 19/01/2013 02:32:18 PM 595 Views
Sad for you. *NM* - 19/01/2013 09:24:59 PM 621 Views
Oh, gosh, this could take a while. - 18/01/2013 05:58:15 PM 1227 Views
How exactly was Faile the cause for Hopper's death? - 19/01/2013 12:31:55 AM 1120 Views
Because her kidnapping was the reason Perrin led his hodge podge army to rescue her, and got trapped - 19/01/2013 01:00:26 AM 1034 Views
Her kidnapping... - 19/01/2013 01:32:40 AM 1092 Views
I said outright I do not fault her as a character for that (only Jordan for writing it that way. ) - 19/01/2013 07:35:57 PM 1156 Views
No it wasn't ... The dreamspike plot would have happened even had she not been kidnapped - 20/01/2013 01:24:25 AM 1116 Views
Exactly - 20/01/2013 06:59:33 PM 1401 Views
Wow... - 19/01/2013 01:49:56 AM 1189 Views
Culture is sometimes a reason, but never an excuse. - 19/01/2013 08:04:52 PM 1170 Views
Just off color - 19/01/2013 10:03:58 PM 1299 Views
? - 19/01/2013 10:44:28 PM 1195 Views

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