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I disagree ranagrande Send a noteboard - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM
But in that case everyones actions are meaningless, Rand might aswell go to Illian docks and make himself available to sailors for the "good" stuff.
Sure, he could if he wanted to. However, it is important to remember that even though everyone's actions are meaningless in the big picture, they matter to the characters themselves.

We know the Dark One doesn't win, otherwise it would be a rubbish story.
It would depend on how it was done. Sometimes having the bad guys win can make for a marvelous ending.

You have to look at these things in a relative way, important to the story, not the paradoxical universe that could never happen and is just the figment of someones imagination.
First of all, I have to do nothing of the sort. Secondly the "paradoxical universe" that I was talking about is the same as the "real" one that you are talking about. It is also still just the figment of someone's (in this case, Robert Jordan's) imagination.

You're trying to argue philosophy (a poor excuse for actual science) with the wrong person. Without Moiraine the DO would have Rand and would be free and have won, end of story.
Science is a philosophy, but philosophy is more than science. Philosophy is the study of thought.

Also, you're wrong. Rand is ta'veren. The Pattern spun him out for a purpose, and it gives him what he needs to accomplish that purpose. It gave him Moiraine, and yes, she helped him. A little anyway, at first.

If she hadn't been there, someone else would have picked up the slack, and Rand still would have been fine. You have argued that that argument is invalid; that even if someone else could have done what Moiraine did, she is the one who actually did it. By this logic, Master Hightower is one of the most important people in the fight against the Shadow. He took everyone on the first ferry trip as you will recall. Without him, Rand and Moiraine and everyone else never would have made it out of the Two Rivers. Pretty silly huh?

I also need to point out that in every book except the Eye of the World, Moiraine's plans and goals are just plain wrong, and more often than not would play directly into the Dark One's hands. For the vast majority of the series, Rand succeeds in spite of Moiraine, not because of her.
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Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:16:34 AM 1579 Views
Nyneave wins hands down - 17/10/2009 05:22:08 AM 830 Views
Nyneave has done more - 17/10/2009 06:42:26 AM 795 Views
Nynaeve! - 17/10/2009 04:12:00 PM 745 Views
I'd say Mat - 17/10/2009 04:40:48 PM 825 Views
are you sure? - 17/10/2009 04:48:01 PM 845 Views
Not to downplay Nynaeve - 17/10/2009 08:40:45 PM 816 Views
Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 17/10/2009 10:44:15 PM 1032 Views
Re: Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 18/10/2009 11:10:20 PM 747 Views
believe what you want, but if the weather hadn't changed when it did TG would be over by now. *NM* - 18/10/2009 11:56:09 PM 358 Views
Actually, there might be a better reason for why it mattered. - 10/12/2009 07:03:32 PM 796 Views
Immaterial. - 10/12/2009 07:48:51 PM 662 Views
It has to be Moiraine - 17/10/2009 05:00:32 PM 849 Views
Actually there were a couple of versions that happened, and Moiraine came in neither. - 17/10/2009 05:32:52 PM 922 Views
So you think the story would have panned out - 17/10/2009 05:46:46 PM 681 Views
None. *NM* - 17/10/2009 08:43:08 PM 345 Views
That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:52:17 PM 734 Views
Re: That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:54:52 PM 682 Views
I think you know exactly what I mean. - 17/10/2009 10:53:40 PM 688 Views
All of them - 18/10/2009 12:09:55 AM 815 Views
Those were only visions - 18/10/2009 12:45:32 AM 709 Views
They may have only been visions... - 18/10/2009 09:19:05 AM 752 Views
"Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 04:45:44 PM 697 Views
Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM 831 Views
That all goes without saying - 18/10/2009 07:26:06 PM 620 Views
I disagree - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM 721 Views
Re: I disagree - 18/10/2009 10:04:27 PM 714 Views
It's almost irrelevant- the Dragon Reborn was Foretold - 18/10/2009 02:07:47 AM 675 Views
Does that mean he'd win? - 18/10/2009 04:47:56 PM 707 Views
IIRC the prophecies don't say anything about whether the DR will win. - 18/10/2009 05:05:03 PM 651 Views
Not really what I was arguing. - 18/10/2009 05:30:05 PM 675 Views
Good points - 18/10/2009 06:14:08 AM 781 Views
the BCS is not a good system *NM* - 18/10/2009 09:08:25 AM 350 Views
Re: Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:26:26 PM 952 Views
Someone needs to re-adjust their meds - 18/10/2009 05:55:58 AM 811 Views
I wouldn't bother justifying yourself to him - 18/10/2009 05:41:42 PM 716 Views
That is true for most people if not all - 18/10/2009 11:28:44 PM 728 Views
He's got a point though... - 21/10/2009 11:18:38 AM 779 Views
"Always fight back! Never justify" Internet discussion rules 101. - 21/10/2009 04:37:32 PM 685 Views
Damn skippy! *NM* - 21/10/2009 11:17:36 AM 339 Views
Ishamael/Moridin - 17/10/2009 06:44:35 PM 947 Views
Good call - 17/10/2009 10:55:38 PM 762 Views
Re: Ishamael/Moridin - 18/10/2009 09:21:29 AM 855 Views
You make it sound very simple - 18/10/2009 10:47:57 PM 773 Views
No - it is very simple - 19/10/2009 05:01:44 AM 730 Views
Not necessarily- - 19/10/2009 09:22:16 PM 742 Views
surely a draw meant resealing - 20/10/2009 03:56:49 PM 676 Views
I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 06:23:55 PM 793 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 10:56:06 PM 856 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 11:22:36 PM 820 Views

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