Active Users:2307 Time:02/07/2026 08:58:56 PM
Exactly. Etzel Send a noteboard - 05/11/2009 07:56:00 PM
Reminds me of the theories (which I and others supported) that Semirhage actually must have had a more clever plan than to simply try capturing Rand disguised as Tuon in KoD. The main reason was that we thought that a Top Forsaken like Semirhage wouldn't be that stupid. But we learned in TGS that Semirhage indeed failed greatly. Graendal wasn't even stupid in TGS, but the Semirhage-lesson taught me that no Forsaken is such intelligent as the "Graendal escaped"-followers believe now. She simply couldn't anticipate Rand's action.

Besides that, it makes more sense that Graendal's storyline was ended that way to concentrate on other things in the last two books, similar to Masema's, Semirhage's, Suroth's, Sevanna's, Galina's and maybe Elaida's conclusion.


The build up to Graendal from Lews Therin's point of view is based on the riddle, 'how do you beat someone who is cleverer than you on every level'? No one could answer him, and Lews Therin had no idea how to defeat her - but he had ways to defeat Lanfear, Sammael and other Chosen. To him, she was the supreme puzzle.

Rand derives the answer 'let her think you're playing her game then punch her in the face'. He balefired the entire palace. It was instant, unpredictable and total - she didn't have a chance.

If Graendal survived it will make Rand seem like a fool because even though he derived the answer, he failed. It doesn't make sense. Cadsuane had to work out how to break Semirhage, and Rand had to work out how to defeat a mind manipulator. They both succeeded.

The reversal of the Compulsion was specifically inserted to show that she'd died. It strains credibility to think that she'd perfected that timing, while at the same time she had to avoid the biggest blast of balefire since the War of Power. She also had no way to know that Rand would use balefire, so why would she create the 'unweaving' subterfuge. Rand might have used a giant fireball or swallowed the palace into the earth. If the Compulsion had unravelled then, she would have looked really stupid. Graendal cannot be as omniscient as others are portraying - she merely had the ability to invoke an atrocity because she couldn't be defeated in other ways.
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Graendal - maybe the deadliest Forsaken - 05/11/2009 07:00:12 AM 1943 Views
It has definitely been hinted - 05/11/2009 08:37:04 AM 996 Views
Graendal wasn't that deadly... - 05/11/2009 09:37:24 AM 1039 Views
I think she was - 05/11/2009 02:42:48 PM 886 Views
RJ still put her in the top category of the Forsaken.. - 05/11/2009 05:24:06 PM 969 Views
I think she's the most deadly and intelligent. The others are idiots, IMHO. - 05/11/2009 06:38:30 PM 904 Views
This whole Graendal is alive-idea - 05/11/2009 07:13:16 PM 933 Views
I'm divided on it.. - 05/11/2009 07:19:07 PM 859 Views
Here's the deal, though. Semirhage actions actually followed part of the theory to a tee. - 05/11/2009 07:21:21 PM 885 Views
Ah, anyway... - 05/11/2009 07:58:05 PM 798 Views
I agree with you - 05/11/2009 07:32:39 PM 884 Views
Exactly. - 05/11/2009 07:56:00 PM 1100 Views
I just don't understand the logic here - 05/11/2009 07:25:20 PM 914 Views
It's quite simple logic. - 05/11/2009 08:05:15 PM 971 Views
Then how did she do it? - 05/11/2009 09:41:53 PM 847 Views
Re: Then how did she do it? - 05/11/2009 10:58:01 PM 791 Views
Re: Then how did she do it? - 05/11/2009 11:58:24 PM 916 Views
Re: Then how did she do it? - 06/11/2009 02:22:51 PM 852 Views
It is a possibility. - 06/11/2009 03:43:22 AM 810 Views
Hmm, I have some problems with this - 06/11/2009 04:23:23 AM 927 Views
Some points no one addressed, a.k.a. Graendal lured Rand in... - 06/11/2009 05:16:12 AM 907 Views
Still no answers. I think I'm correct in feeling she is alive. *NM* - 06/11/2009 09:25:47 PM 348 Views
Re: Hmm, I have some problems with this - 06/11/2009 02:34:54 PM 887 Views
But... - 06/11/2009 02:56:32 PM 850 Views
Re: But... - 06/11/2009 03:07:02 PM 865 Views
Re: But... - 06/11/2009 03:53:41 PM 1035 Views
Re: But... - 06/11/2009 07:35:12 PM 809 Views
She's definitely the deadiest - 05/11/2009 02:05:23 PM 920 Views
I think she escaped, but it says something that he had to become worse than a Forsaken to do it - 05/11/2009 06:10:08 PM 842 Views
Eventually they will be reborn... - 05/11/2009 06:30:45 PM 764 Views
Thanks for reminding me. Oh well, then I'm stuck with the whole tearing apart the Pattern thing - 05/11/2009 06:44:35 PM 796 Views
Moiraine says. - 05/11/2009 07:02:10 PM 833 Views
In this case, Moiraine's comment doesn't really matter. - 05/11/2009 07:14:44 PM 821 Views
Re: In this case, Moiraine's comment doesn't really matter. - 05/11/2009 07:35:18 PM 916 Views
From what I keep hearing - 05/11/2009 08:58:57 PM 827 Views
I could well believe it - 05/11/2009 11:03:40 PM 781 Views
Re: In this case, Moiraine's comment doesn't really matter. - 06/11/2009 09:00:01 PM 719 Views
I conceed to Rand's point - 05/11/2009 06:31:38 PM 920 Views
I don't think it's acceptable to tear apart the Pattern to save it. - 05/11/2009 06:40:22 PM 746 Views
True... - 05/11/2009 06:57:24 PM 790 Views
Re: True... - 05/11/2009 07:07:07 PM 786 Views
Re: True... - 05/11/2009 07:35:06 PM 827 Views
Re: True... - 05/11/2009 08:07:42 PM 782 Views
I always thought she was the most dangerous of the chicks. - 06/11/2009 04:28:43 AM 920 Views
Difference between being dangerous and hard to kill--but, she is dangerous - 08/11/2009 02:19:34 AM 860 Views
Semirhage did far more destruction than Graendal. - 24/11/2009 06:09:18 PM 904 Views
Graendal also made chaos in Shara, though... - 24/11/2009 06:36:15 PM 701 Views
It's not surprising when you start looking at her parallels - 12/12/2009 01:03:25 AM 709 Views
Not to take away from Graendal, but my vote goes to Semirhage or Aginor - 16/12/2009 07:03:52 PM 711 Views
meh - 19/12/2009 11:56:12 PM 718 Views

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