Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list...
Shannow Send a noteboard - 18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM
As per KCF's Q&A thread below, Sanderson says that Nynaeve is incredibly strong, and that only 6 women are above her on RJ's revised strength list.
Sanderson says that Cyndane is severely weakened in the Power. (He clarified this at the Pasadena signing, to rectify his earlier mistake, where KCF quoted him as saying Cyndane was a very, very weak channeler. Apparently what he meant is, she is much WEAKENED, but still strong).
Sanderson says that he is "pretty sure" that Nynaeve is stronger than Semirhage, but not 100% certain. He stressed that Nynaeve and Semirhage are very close to one another in strength.
Sanderson also says that Mesaana is definitely weaker than Nynaeve, and that she is not particularly strong for a female Forsaken.
The above quotes are incredible. For the first time they allow us to put together a definitive strength list of the female Forsaken.
First we have Lanfear, the strongest woman ever.
Next, I will use Nynaeve as a benchmark, as she is the common denominator Sanderson used to compare the female Forsaken to one another.
Sanderson is not 100% sure if Semirhage is weaker than Nynaeve, but he implies strongly that Cyndane is not one of the 6 females above Nynaeve. He stresses that she is MUCH weaker than before.
That makes it pretty clear that Semirhage is the second strongest female Forsaken!
We also know that Graendal HAS to fall even lower than Cyndane, as she acknowledges herself that Cyndane is stronger than her.
Sanderson's dismissive reference to Mesaana makes it likely that she comes next, with Moghedien obviously bringing up the rear.
So the female Forsaken strength list, HAS to look as follows:
Lanfear
Semirhage
Cyndane
Graendal
Mesaana
Moghedien
It could be argued that Mesaana and Graendal might fall on the same level, and that Cyndane could conceivably be on the same level as Semirhage, but Sanderson's certainty that Cyndane is below Nynaeve, while not being that sure of Semirhage's position seems to argue against that.
Wow. After YEARS of debate, it seems we have the answer to the big strength question. For the females at least.
And incidentally, it seems as if Nynaeve is either stronger than all the female Forsaken except Lanfear, or at worst, she is exceeded only by Lanfear and Semirhage.
I think that Sanderson could not remember who was the stronger of Nynaeve and Semirhage, because they are probably on the same level of RJ's strength list. And therefore, without looking at more in depth notes to get a definitive answer, he most likely gave the benefit of the doubt to Nynaeve.
That's why he said he was "pretty sure" she was the stronger, but not certain. And that's probably why he stressed that they are very close in strength.
Anyway this is mindblowing stuff for me. Information I've been waiting for since I first read FoH, when we had the first Forsaken scene involving Rahvin, Graendal, Lanfear and Sammael.
So what do you all think?
Sanderson says that Cyndane is severely weakened in the Power. (He clarified this at the Pasadena signing, to rectify his earlier mistake, where KCF quoted him as saying Cyndane was a very, very weak channeler. Apparently what he meant is, she is much WEAKENED, but still strong).
Sanderson says that he is "pretty sure" that Nynaeve is stronger than Semirhage, but not 100% certain. He stressed that Nynaeve and Semirhage are very close to one another in strength.
Sanderson also says that Mesaana is definitely weaker than Nynaeve, and that she is not particularly strong for a female Forsaken.
The above quotes are incredible. For the first time they allow us to put together a definitive strength list of the female Forsaken.
First we have Lanfear, the strongest woman ever.
Next, I will use Nynaeve as a benchmark, as she is the common denominator Sanderson used to compare the female Forsaken to one another.
Sanderson is not 100% sure if Semirhage is weaker than Nynaeve, but he implies strongly that Cyndane is not one of the 6 females above Nynaeve. He stresses that she is MUCH weaker than before.
That makes it pretty clear that Semirhage is the second strongest female Forsaken!
We also know that Graendal HAS to fall even lower than Cyndane, as she acknowledges herself that Cyndane is stronger than her.
Sanderson's dismissive reference to Mesaana makes it likely that she comes next, with Moghedien obviously bringing up the rear.
So the female Forsaken strength list, HAS to look as follows:
Lanfear
Semirhage
Cyndane
Graendal
Mesaana
Moghedien
It could be argued that Mesaana and Graendal might fall on the same level, and that Cyndane could conceivably be on the same level as Semirhage, but Sanderson's certainty that Cyndane is below Nynaeve, while not being that sure of Semirhage's position seems to argue against that.
Wow. After YEARS of debate, it seems we have the answer to the big strength question. For the females at least.
And incidentally, it seems as if Nynaeve is either stronger than all the female Forsaken except Lanfear, or at worst, she is exceeded only by Lanfear and Semirhage.
I think that Sanderson could not remember who was the stronger of Nynaeve and Semirhage, because they are probably on the same level of RJ's strength list. And therefore, without looking at more in depth notes to get a definitive answer, he most likely gave the benefit of the doubt to Nynaeve.
That's why he said he was "pretty sure" she was the stronger, but not certain. And that's probably why he stressed that they are very close in strength.
Anyway this is mindblowing stuff for me. Information I've been waiting for since I first read FoH, when we had the first Forsaken scene involving Rahvin, Graendal, Lanfear and Sammael.
So what do you all think?
This message last edited by Shannow on 18/11/2009 at 08:51:06 PM
Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list...
18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM
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Sounds good
18/11/2009 06:08:15 PM
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Re: Sounds good
18/11/2009 06:12:53 PM
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Re: Someryn
18/11/2009 06:20:44 PM
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As I understand it...
18/11/2009 06:23:26 PM
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My view is that the new list is just a revised one, after RJ changed his mind on some things...
18/11/2009 06:28:53 PM
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Re: Sounds good
18/11/2009 07:11:17 PM
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Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve?
18/11/2009 07:12:57 PM
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Re: Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve?
18/11/2009 07:15:22 PM
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Also, a couple more questions, if I may...
18/11/2009 07:18:50 PM
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Re: Also, a couple more questions, if I may...
18/11/2009 07:23:45 PM
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But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no.
18/11/2009 07:26:17 PM
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Re: But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no.
18/11/2009 07:31:35 PM
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One problem...
18/11/2009 06:10:06 PM
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No...
18/11/2009 06:14:48 PM
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That's not a problem.
18/11/2009 06:31:37 PM
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Why on earth would there be multiple restrictions on Cyndane's strength?
18/11/2009 06:47:56 PM
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Sorry buddy
18/11/2009 07:36:00 PM
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Re: Sorry buddy
18/11/2009 09:49:01 PM
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Are you able to give any more detail on Sanderson's answer to your Cyndane question?
18/11/2009 10:02:17 PM
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But Nynaeve and Mogheiden were of equal strength
18/11/2009 06:15:52 PM
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Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet...
18/11/2009 06:19:07 PM
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I agree...and I have a question regarding Moghedien.
18/11/2009 06:30:07 PM
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Was she? Nyn was mid20s and a wilder, I thought she had reached full strength
18/11/2009 08:00:24 PM
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As late as CoS, Nynaeve states that she is not close to her full potential yet. *NM*
18/11/2009 08:04:47 PM
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Wilders rarely reach their full potential if they're blocked. *NM*
18/11/2009 08:43:30 PM
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I know the Cleansing forced her a bit.
18/11/2009 08:44:59 PM
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That's been said before- anyone know where it says that in the text?
19/11/2009 05:53:50 AM
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Re: Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet...
10/12/2010 08:07:05 PM
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Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list...
18/11/2009 06:22:50 PM
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More or less agreed. I was right about Nynaeve!
18/11/2009 06:29:27 PM
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IMO...
18/11/2009 06:37:19 PM
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I don't know...
18/11/2009 06:56:10 PM
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I still think Alivia is below Lanfear's strength level...
18/11/2009 06:59:01 PM
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That just doesn't make sense...
18/11/2009 07:02:17 PM
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All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but...
18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM
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But why doesn't it make sense?
18/11/2009 08:47:42 PM
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Talaan, Alivia and Sharina reduced my estimation of Nynaeve dramatically...
18/11/2009 08:54:29 PM
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All this can be explained by the fact that Nynaeve was yet to reach her potential.
18/11/2009 09:25:41 PM
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I don't think...
18/11/2009 07:08:09 PM
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Damane never recieve special status...
18/11/2009 08:52:32 PM
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Good point...
18/11/2009 09:00:51 PM
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Thing is...
18/11/2009 09:10:45 PM
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Lanfear cannot even defeat Rand. Nynaeve wouldn't last a minute against him.
18/11/2009 09:13:06 PM
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And Rand couldn't defeat Lanfear. What's your point?
18/11/2009 09:26:06 PM
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He could. RJ stated it in a Q&A. Rand just couldn't bring himself to do it...
18/11/2009 09:45:18 PM
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But so could Lanfear, and both had angreal, confusing the situation considerably.
18/11/2009 09:47:25 PM
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My point was...
18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM
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If Tuon had the strongest...
18/11/2009 09:12:22 PM
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Sera must be stronger...
18/11/2009 09:25:00 PM
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There's no reason to be certain about it...
18/11/2009 09:28:26 PM
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Well, the Bloodknives are precisely Tuon's tools
18/11/2009 09:32:46 PM
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There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for...
18/11/2009 09:46:28 PM
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There are six stronger women named on the list
19/11/2009 11:40:52 AM
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I'm not ignoring Sera!
19/11/2009 06:13:43 PM
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There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for...
18/11/2009 09:46:29 PM
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But Alivia (while strong in the OP) is an old fraile lady on her deathbed. *NM*
18/11/2009 09:41:33 PM
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You were right about Nynaeve, I was right about Graendal! Well done!
18/11/2009 06:37:42 PM
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I have one problem with your list.
18/11/2009 06:36:02 PM
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RJ said the Forsaken ALWAYS overrate themselves...
18/11/2009 06:54:45 PM
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I totally agree. Mesaana is weaker than Semirhage. This was also confirmed by BS *NM*
18/11/2009 06:56:30 PM
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I'm sorry, but I find it mindblowing that you find this mindblowing.
18/11/2009 06:36:37 PM
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There is a side effect to all of this rearrangement...we may have to rethink the wonder girls.
18/11/2009 07:04:17 PM
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Damn. That's a thought I definitely DON'T relish. Thankfully...
18/11/2009 07:09:18 PM
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Helpless at her strength at the time, or helpless at Egwene's full potential? *NM*
18/11/2009 07:26:15 PM
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Egwene was forced, so she was already at her full potential when she made this comment. *NM*
18/11/2009 07:45:08 PM
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I admit she was forced, but how does that guarantee she was at full strength? *NM*
18/11/2009 08:06:40 PM
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I'm 90% sure it is stated somewhere... *NM*
18/11/2009 08:10:03 PM
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Egwene was at her full strength. Elayne comments on this in The Shadow Rising IIRC.
18/11/2009 08:34:37 PM
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Where does she say this?
18/11/2009 08:54:39 PM
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No, she explicitly refers to herself vs Moghedien...
18/11/2009 09:01:53 PM
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Here are the quotes...
18/11/2009 09:24:24 PM
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Oh come on. You're totally twisting that passage to suit your argument...
18/11/2009 09:54:56 PM
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I could say the same...
18/11/2009 10:50:44 PM
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So let me get this straight...
19/11/2009 06:44:03 AM
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No...
19/11/2009 07:37:29 AM
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What about Sammael? The debate about Sammael and Rahvin has been decided now too.
18/11/2009 08:03:35 PM
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Totally disagree...
18/11/2009 08:08:34 PM
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Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal...
18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM
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Disagree...
18/11/2009 09:09:45 PM
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Disagree back... for the last time though...
18/11/2009 09:39:25 PM
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About the top 6...
18/11/2009 10:08:37 PM
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And One Power Battles turn political on a regualr basis, do they?
18/11/2009 10:54:35 PM
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That's ridiculous...
19/11/2009 07:19:08 AM
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Re: That's ridiculous...
19/11/2009 08:08:14 AM
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If Rahvin were stronger...
18/11/2009 08:59:32 PM
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Graendal could not face down Rand. And if she thinks she can it is b/c she has an angreal. *NM*
18/11/2009 09:49:00 PM
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But Rand did not know of her angreal. *NM*
19/11/2009 12:03:21 AM
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Rand knows he can beat Graendal in a heads-up-duel. Graendal knows she would lose. *NM*
28/11/2009 10:07:27 PM
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Some more from Brandon...
19/11/2009 04:29:41 AM
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So we're back where we started?
19/11/2009 04:56:36 AM
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Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list...
10/12/2010 07:55:51 PM
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we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength
10/12/2010 08:36:50 PM
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Re: we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength
10/12/2010 09:17:48 PM
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winning in TAR had nothing to do with OP strength... that was pure skill and later Moghedien lost!
11/12/2010 04:14:26 PM
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