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RJ said the Forsaken ALWAYS overrate themselves... Shannow Send a noteboard - 18/11/2009 06:54:45 PM

Lanfear
Semirhage
Cyndane
Graendal
Mesaana
Moghedien


I don't have my books with me right now to verify, but I believe that Mesaana, in the prologue of Lord of Chaos, mentioned that she was comparable in the Power with Semirhage. Am I misremembering, or should Mesaana be higher up on that list?

Edit: I found a quote:

Mesaana knew her own strengths and weaknesses, with the One Power and elsewhere. She matched well with Semirhage on most points, and where she did not, she had other strengths to lay against weaknesses in Semirhage.

I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean that Mesaana is close to Semirhage in One Power strength, but it sure seems like it. What other information are you using to place Mesaana so low?


He said we should not even trust their opinions about themselves when we are reading their own, private points of view.

In other words, Mesaana saying that she "matches well" with Semirhage is her way of saying "Semirhage is stronger than me, but I refuse to admit it".

If they were really equal, she would probably have viewed herself as superior, for some reason or another.
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Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... Shannow - 18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM 2470 Views
Sounds good Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:08:15 PM 1301 Views
Re: Sounds good Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:12:53 PM 1427 Views
Re: Someryn Logain - 18/11/2009 06:20:44 PM 1413 Views
I acknowledge that possibility... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:24:30 PM 1279 Views
Someryn implies that Graendal is stronger. Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/11/2009 01:51:31 PM 1372 Views
Excellent point...I'd forgotten about that... Shannow - 19/11/2009 02:00:30 PM 1294 Views
As I understand it... Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:23:26 PM 1370 Views
My view is that the new list is just a revised one, after RJ changed his mind on some things... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:28:53 PM 1440 Views
Agreed. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:31:22 PM 1227 Views
I suppose that's possible. *NM* Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:31:42 PM 1060 Views
I agree with this interpretation on the new vs. old list kcf - 18/11/2009 07:13:02 PM 1342 Views
Re: Sounds good kcf - 18/11/2009 07:11:17 PM 1201 Views
Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve? Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:12:57 PM 1343 Views
Re: Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve? kcf - 18/11/2009 07:15:22 PM 1482 Views
Also, a couple more questions, if I may... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:18:50 PM 1235 Views
Re: Also, a couple more questions, if I may... kcf - 18/11/2009 07:23:45 PM 1269 Views
But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no. Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:26:17 PM 1297 Views
Re: But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no. kcf - 18/11/2009 07:31:35 PM 1283 Views
That blows a heck of a lot of this theory out of the water... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:33:39 PM 1283 Views
it's possible, but I'd say unlikely kcf - 18/11/2009 07:34:32 PM 1295 Views
One problem... Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 06:10:06 PM 1403 Views
No... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:14:48 PM 1303 Views
That's not a problem. Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 06:31:37 PM 1264 Views
Why on earth would there be multiple restrictions on Cyndane's strength? Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:47:56 PM 1172 Views
Sorry buddy Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 07:36:00 PM 1267 Views
Re: Sorry buddy rhiane - 18/11/2009 09:49:01 PM 1229 Views
Are you able to give any more detail on Sanderson's answer to your Cyndane question? Shannow - 18/11/2009 10:02:17 PM 1253 Views
But Nynaeve and Mogheiden were of equal strength beetnemesis - 18/11/2009 06:15:52 PM 1453 Views
Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:19:07 PM 1504 Views
I agree...and I have a question regarding Moghedien. Logain - 18/11/2009 06:30:07 PM 1320 Views
Cyndane has to be above Graendal. *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:33:16 PM 697 Views
You're right. I'll post new list below. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 06:39:36 PM 716 Views
Was she? Nyn was mid20s and a wilder, I thought she had reached full strength beetnemesis - 18/11/2009 08:00:24 PM 1345 Views
As late as CoS, Nynaeve states that she is not close to her full potential yet. *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:04:47 PM 713 Views
She really hasn't had that much time channelling though. Wotmaniac Reborn - 18/11/2009 08:07:31 PM 992 Views
Wilders rarely reach their full potential if they're blocked. *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:43:30 PM 754 Views
I know the Cleansing forced her a bit. Gher - 18/11/2009 08:44:59 PM 1275 Views
That's been said before- anyone know where it says that in the text? beetnemesis - 19/11/2009 05:53:50 AM 1078 Views
Re: Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 08:07:05 PM 1309 Views
Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... Tedtheman - 18/11/2009 06:22:50 PM 1149 Views
More or less agreed. I was right about Nynaeve! fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:29:27 PM 1214 Views
IMO... Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:37:19 PM 1339 Views
I don't know... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:56:10 PM 1230 Views
I still think Alivia is below Lanfear's strength level... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:59:01 PM 1527 Views
That just doesn't make sense... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 07:02:17 PM 1317 Views
I agree that Lanfear and Alivia are tied. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 07:06:19 PM 713 Views
All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM 1180 Views
But why doesn't it make sense? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:47:42 PM 1053 Views
Talaan, Alivia and Sharina reduced my estimation of Nynaeve dramatically... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:54:29 PM 1272 Views
All this can be explained by the fact that Nynaeve was yet to reach her potential. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:25:41 PM 1278 Views
I don't think... Etzel - 18/11/2009 07:08:09 PM 1390 Views
Damane never recieve special status... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:52:32 PM 1225 Views
Good point... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:00:51 PM 1233 Views
Thing is... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:10:45 PM 1258 Views
Lanfear cannot even defeat Rand. Nynaeve wouldn't last a minute against him. Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:13:06 PM 1381 Views
And Rand couldn't defeat Lanfear. What's your point? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:26:06 PM 1047 Views
He could. RJ stated it in a Q&A. Rand just couldn't bring himself to do it... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:45:18 PM 1063 Views
But so could Lanfear, and both had angreal, confusing the situation considerably. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:47:25 PM 1108 Views
My point was... Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 1246 Views
I agree *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:10:46 PM 678 Views
If Tuon had the strongest... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:12:22 PM 1178 Views
Sera must be stronger... Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:25:00 PM 1190 Views
There's no reason to be certain about it... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:28:26 PM 1232 Views
Well, the Bloodknives are precisely Tuon's tools Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:32:46 PM 1172 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:46:28 PM 1245 Views
There are six stronger women named on the list Etzel - 19/11/2009 11:40:52 AM 1244 Views
I'm not ignoring Sera! fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:13:43 PM 1108 Views
You misunderstand me... Etzel - 19/11/2009 06:16:31 PM 1163 Views
I doesn't make "sense". Let's leave it... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:19:52 PM 1155 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:46:29 PM 1318 Views
But Alivia (while strong in the OP) is an old fraile lady on her deathbed. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 09:41:33 PM 772 Views
Pardon? Don't understand this really. *NM* Etzel - 19/11/2009 11:45:21 AM 559 Views
You keep saying Alivia was "a common damane" darius_sedai - 28/11/2009 08:58:42 PM 1025 Views
You were right about Nynaeve, I was right about Graendal! Well done! Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:37:42 PM 1314 Views
Yes. This is one WoT debate coming to a close... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:54:06 PM 1079 Views
I have one problem with your list. Kaldric - 18/11/2009 06:36:02 PM 1268 Views
RJ said the Forsaken ALWAYS overrate themselves... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:54:45 PM 1124 Views
I totally agree. Mesaana is weaker than Semirhage. This was also confirmed by BS *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 06:56:30 PM 668 Views
Mesaana is cold and calculating. Kaldric - 18/11/2009 07:03:49 PM 1211 Views
I'm sorry, but I find it mindblowing that you find this mindblowing. TaskmasterJack - 18/11/2009 06:36:37 PM 1230 Views
Some of us have been debating this for 5 years on Wotmania... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:57:08 PM 1266 Views
I think it goes like this: Logain - 18/11/2009 06:53:07 PM 1249 Views
There is a side effect to all of this rearrangement...we may have to rethink the wonder girls. Logain - 18/11/2009 07:04:17 PM 1269 Views
We'll have to re-read the sections where Moghedien is captured. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/11/2009 07:08:07 PM 1176 Views
Damn. That's a thought I definitely DON'T relish. Thankfully... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:09:18 PM 1222 Views
Helpless at her strength at the time, or helpless at Egwene's full potential? *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 07:26:15 PM 676 Views
Egwene was forced, so she was already at her full potential when she made this comment. *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:45:08 PM 676 Views
I admit she was forced, but how does that guarantee she was at full strength? *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 08:06:40 PM 681 Views
I'm 90% sure it is stated somewhere... *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:10:03 PM 679 Views
Egwene was at her full strength. Elayne comments on this in The Shadow Rising IIRC. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/11/2009 08:34:37 PM 1281 Views
She only says that Egwene is stronger and had been forced darius_sedai - 29/11/2009 01:54:56 AM 1254 Views
Where does she say this? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:54:39 PM 1207 Views
No, she explicitly refers to herself vs Moghedien... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:01:53 PM 1219 Views
Here are the quotes... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:24:24 PM 1267 Views
Oh come on. You're totally twisting that passage to suit your argument... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:54:56 PM 1138 Views
I could say the same... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 10:50:44 PM 1146 Views
So let me get this straight... Shannow - 19/11/2009 06:44:03 AM 1186 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 07:37:29 AM 1214 Views
Look at it this way... Shannow - 19/11/2009 10:23:06 AM 1180 Views
Dude, there were other quotes... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:15:32 PM 1094 Views
What about Sammael? The debate about Sammael and Rahvin has been decided now too. Logain - 18/11/2009 08:03:35 PM 1300 Views
Totally disagree... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:08:34 PM 1310 Views
Re: Totally disagree... Logain - 18/11/2009 08:22:07 PM 1193 Views
Males likely go like this... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:27:27 PM 1172 Views
Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 1190 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:09:45 PM 1251 Views
Disagree back... for the last time though... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:39:25 PM 1125 Views
About the top 6... Shannow - 18/11/2009 10:08:37 PM 1200 Views
And One Power Battles turn political on a regualr basis, do they? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 10:54:35 PM 1255 Views
That's ridiculous... Shannow - 19/11/2009 07:19:08 AM 1140 Views
Re: That's ridiculous... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 08:08:14 AM 1174 Views
Well... Shannow - 19/11/2009 10:29:45 AM 1197 Views
This is getting idiotic... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:19:08 PM 1170 Views
Re: Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 07:31:18 PM 1170 Views
If Rahvin were stronger... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:59:32 PM 1137 Views
Graendal could not face down Rand. And if she thinks she can it is b/c she has an angreal. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 09:49:00 PM 631 Views
But Rand did not know of her angreal. *NM* fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 12:03:21 AM 646 Views
Rand knows he can beat Graendal in a heads-up-duel. Graendal knows she would lose. *NM* Logain - 28/11/2009 10:07:27 PM 682 Views
Disagreement Corwin - 19/11/2009 01:39:49 AM 1269 Views
Some more from Brandon... kcf - 19/11/2009 04:29:41 AM 1173 Views
So we're back where we started? fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 04:56:36 AM 968 Views
Re: So we're back where we started? kcf - 19/11/2009 05:18:15 AM 1276 Views
Someone must ask him: Is Cyndane one of the 6 above Nynaeve. Shannow - 19/11/2009 05:35:10 AM 1135 Views
My opinion: down this path lies insanity. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 19/11/2009 02:53:59 PM 1222 Views
Thoughts Heiko - 19/11/2009 04:55:09 AM 1299 Views
Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 07:55:51 PM 1154 Views
we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:36:50 PM 1158 Views
Re: we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:17:48 PM 1189 Views
winning in TAR had nothing to do with OP strength... that was pure skill and later Moghedien lost! darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 04:14:26 PM 1143 Views
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