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All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but... Shannow Send a noteboard - 18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM

Lanfear's viewpoint at the Cleansing seems to suggest that even in the Age of Legends, she never met a woman who matched her strength.

I doubt one is going to pop up in this age, with about 1% of the population size of the previous age.

Her point was that no one was stronger than her in the Age of Legends. Doesn't mean no one equaled her!

And if the population is an issue... you should then be rigorously arguing that Lanfear cannot be the only Forsaken stronger than Nynaeve.

It was extremely rare for women to be stronger than Graendal in the AoL, yet we have Nynaeve and five others who are not Forsaken top Graendal. That means all bets are off, and Lanfear is definitely not alone at the top.


Sanderson has upset the applecart. Frankly, RJ said Nynaeve was as strong as most of the female Forsaken. People interpreted that to mean she was as strong as the average female Forsaken.

Turns out, she is only exceeded by Lanfear, and possibly matched by Semirhage.

It makes no sense to me, but there you have it.

This message last edited by Shannow on 18/11/2009 at 07:07:26 PM
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Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... Shannow - 18/11/2009 05:56:58 PM 2440 Views
Sounds good Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:08:15 PM 1277 Views
Re: Sounds good Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:12:53 PM 1385 Views
Re: Someryn Logain - 18/11/2009 06:20:44 PM 1390 Views
I acknowledge that possibility... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:24:30 PM 1253 Views
Someryn implies that Graendal is stronger. Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/11/2009 01:51:31 PM 1344 Views
Excellent point...I'd forgotten about that... Shannow - 19/11/2009 02:00:30 PM 1259 Views
As I understand it... Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:23:26 PM 1344 Views
My view is that the new list is just a revised one, after RJ changed his mind on some things... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:28:53 PM 1412 Views
Agreed. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:31:22 PM 1204 Views
I suppose that's possible. *NM* Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:31:42 PM 1028 Views
I agree with this interpretation on the new vs. old list kcf - 18/11/2009 07:13:02 PM 1302 Views
Re: Sounds good kcf - 18/11/2009 07:11:17 PM 1177 Views
Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve? Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:12:57 PM 1310 Views
Re: Did it sound like Sanderson knew the names of all 6 women above Nynaeve? kcf - 18/11/2009 07:15:22 PM 1437 Views
Also, a couple more questions, if I may... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:18:50 PM 1204 Views
Re: Also, a couple more questions, if I may... kcf - 18/11/2009 07:23:45 PM 1236 Views
But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no. Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:26:17 PM 1277 Views
Re: But you said that you asked him whether Cyndane was one of the 6, and he said no. kcf - 18/11/2009 07:31:35 PM 1254 Views
That blows a heck of a lot of this theory out of the water... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:33:39 PM 1258 Views
it's possible, but I'd say unlikely kcf - 18/11/2009 07:34:32 PM 1261 Views
One problem... Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 06:10:06 PM 1379 Views
No... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:14:48 PM 1282 Views
That's not a problem. Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 06:31:37 PM 1234 Views
Why on earth would there be multiple restrictions on Cyndane's strength? Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:47:56 PM 1145 Views
Sorry buddy Rand al'Thor - 18/11/2009 07:36:00 PM 1240 Views
Re: Sorry buddy rhiane - 18/11/2009 09:49:01 PM 1196 Views
Are you able to give any more detail on Sanderson's answer to your Cyndane question? Shannow - 18/11/2009 10:02:17 PM 1237 Views
But Nynaeve and Mogheiden were of equal strength beetnemesis - 18/11/2009 06:15:52 PM 1411 Views
Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:19:07 PM 1488 Views
I agree...and I have a question regarding Moghedien. Logain - 18/11/2009 06:30:07 PM 1286 Views
Cyndane has to be above Graendal. *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:33:16 PM 684 Views
You're right. I'll post new list below. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 06:39:36 PM 705 Views
Was she? Nyn was mid20s and a wilder, I thought she had reached full strength beetnemesis - 18/11/2009 08:00:24 PM 1312 Views
As late as CoS, Nynaeve states that she is not close to her full potential yet. *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:04:47 PM 699 Views
She really hasn't had that much time channelling though. Wotmaniac Reborn - 18/11/2009 08:07:31 PM 969 Views
Wilders rarely reach their full potential if they're blocked. *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:43:30 PM 743 Views
I know the Cleansing forced her a bit. Gher - 18/11/2009 08:44:59 PM 1252 Views
That's been said before- anyone know where it says that in the text? beetnemesis - 19/11/2009 05:53:50 AM 1041 Views
Re: Nynaeve matched Moghedien when Nynaeve was not close to her full potential yet... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 08:07:05 PM 1275 Views
Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... Tedtheman - 18/11/2009 06:22:50 PM 1120 Views
More or less agreed. I was right about Nynaeve! fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:29:27 PM 1188 Views
IMO... Etzel - 18/11/2009 06:37:19 PM 1304 Views
I don't know... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:56:10 PM 1182 Views
I still think Alivia is below Lanfear's strength level... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:59:01 PM 1501 Views
That just doesn't make sense... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 07:02:17 PM 1288 Views
I agree that Lanfear and Alivia are tied. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 07:06:19 PM 704 Views
All of my instincts indeed argue that 4 of the Forsaken CANNOT be below Nynaeve, but... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:06:25 PM 1147 Views
But why doesn't it make sense? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:47:42 PM 1025 Views
Talaan, Alivia and Sharina reduced my estimation of Nynaeve dramatically... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:54:29 PM 1237 Views
All this can be explained by the fact that Nynaeve was yet to reach her potential. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:25:41 PM 1235 Views
I don't think... Etzel - 18/11/2009 07:08:09 PM 1363 Views
Damane never recieve special status... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:52:32 PM 1187 Views
Good point... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:00:51 PM 1211 Views
Thing is... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:10:45 PM 1239 Views
Lanfear cannot even defeat Rand. Nynaeve wouldn't last a minute against him. Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:13:06 PM 1313 Views
And Rand couldn't defeat Lanfear. What's your point? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:26:06 PM 1014 Views
He could. RJ stated it in a Q&A. Rand just couldn't bring himself to do it... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:45:18 PM 1037 Views
But so could Lanfear, and both had angreal, confusing the situation considerably. fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:47:25 PM 1076 Views
My point was... Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 1215 Views
I agree *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:10:46 PM 667 Views
If Tuon had the strongest... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:12:22 PM 1147 Views
Sera must be stronger... Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:25:00 PM 1165 Views
There's no reason to be certain about it... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:28:26 PM 1197 Views
Well, the Bloodknives are precisely Tuon's tools Etzel - 18/11/2009 09:32:46 PM 1137 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:46:28 PM 1213 Views
There are six stronger women named on the list Etzel - 19/11/2009 11:40:52 AM 1218 Views
I'm not ignoring Sera! fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:13:43 PM 1074 Views
You misunderstand me... Etzel - 19/11/2009 06:16:31 PM 1135 Views
I doesn't make "sense". Let's leave it... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:19:52 PM 1132 Views
There are SIX women stronger than Nynaeve, and at least five are accounted for... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:46:29 PM 1287 Views
But Alivia (while strong in the OP) is an old fraile lady on her deathbed. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 09:41:33 PM 759 Views
Pardon? Don't understand this really. *NM* Etzel - 19/11/2009 11:45:21 AM 548 Views
You keep saying Alivia was "a common damane" darius_sedai - 28/11/2009 08:58:42 PM 1000 Views
You were right about Nynaeve, I was right about Graendal! Well done! Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:37:42 PM 1290 Views
Yes. This is one WoT debate coming to a close... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 06:54:06 PM 1053 Views
I have one problem with your list. Kaldric - 18/11/2009 06:36:02 PM 1240 Views
RJ said the Forsaken ALWAYS overrate themselves... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:54:45 PM 1100 Views
I totally agree. Mesaana is weaker than Semirhage. This was also confirmed by BS *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 06:56:30 PM 655 Views
Mesaana is cold and calculating. Kaldric - 18/11/2009 07:03:49 PM 1183 Views
I'm sorry, but I find it mindblowing that you find this mindblowing. TaskmasterJack - 18/11/2009 06:36:37 PM 1208 Views
Some of us have been debating this for 5 years on Wotmania... Shannow - 18/11/2009 06:57:08 PM 1243 Views
I think it goes like this: Logain - 18/11/2009 06:53:07 PM 1216 Views
There is a side effect to all of this rearrangement...we may have to rethink the wonder girls. Logain - 18/11/2009 07:04:17 PM 1243 Views
We'll have to re-read the sections where Moghedien is captured. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/11/2009 07:08:07 PM 1153 Views
Damn. That's a thought I definitely DON'T relish. Thankfully... Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:09:18 PM 1196 Views
Helpless at her strength at the time, or helpless at Egwene's full potential? *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 07:26:15 PM 666 Views
Egwene was forced, so she was already at her full potential when she made this comment. *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 07:45:08 PM 665 Views
I admit she was forced, but how does that guarantee she was at full strength? *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 08:06:40 PM 671 Views
I'm 90% sure it is stated somewhere... *NM* Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:10:03 PM 667 Views
Egwene was at her full strength. Elayne comments on this in The Shadow Rising IIRC. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/11/2009 08:34:37 PM 1247 Views
She only says that Egwene is stronger and had been forced darius_sedai - 29/11/2009 01:54:56 AM 1216 Views
Where does she say this? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:54:39 PM 1180 Views
No, she explicitly refers to herself vs Moghedien... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:01:53 PM 1190 Views
Here are the quotes... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:24:24 PM 1231 Views
Oh come on. You're totally twisting that passage to suit your argument... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:54:56 PM 1104 Views
I could say the same... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 10:50:44 PM 1118 Views
So let me get this straight... Shannow - 19/11/2009 06:44:03 AM 1151 Views
No... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 07:37:29 AM 1190 Views
Look at it this way... Shannow - 19/11/2009 10:23:06 AM 1156 Views
Dude, there were other quotes... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:15:32 PM 1067 Views
What about Sammael? The debate about Sammael and Rahvin has been decided now too. Logain - 18/11/2009 08:03:35 PM 1258 Views
Totally disagree... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:08:34 PM 1282 Views
Re: Totally disagree... Logain - 18/11/2009 08:22:07 PM 1162 Views
Males likely go like this... Shannow - 18/11/2009 08:27:27 PM 1143 Views
Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:05:28 PM 1158 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 18/11/2009 09:09:45 PM 1228 Views
Disagree back... for the last time though... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 09:39:25 PM 1094 Views
About the top 6... Shannow - 18/11/2009 10:08:37 PM 1171 Views
And One Power Battles turn political on a regualr basis, do they? fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 10:54:35 PM 1235 Views
That's ridiculous... Shannow - 19/11/2009 07:19:08 AM 1111 Views
Re: That's ridiculous... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 08:08:14 AM 1147 Views
Well... Shannow - 19/11/2009 10:29:45 AM 1151 Views
This is getting idiotic... fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 06:19:08 PM 1142 Views
Re: Dude, Rand is scared of Graendal... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 07:31:18 PM 1141 Views
If Rahvin were stronger... fionwe1987 - 18/11/2009 08:59:32 PM 1101 Views
Graendal could not face down Rand. And if she thinks she can it is b/c she has an angreal. *NM* Logain - 18/11/2009 09:49:00 PM 621 Views
But Rand did not know of her angreal. *NM* fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 12:03:21 AM 632 Views
Rand knows he can beat Graendal in a heads-up-duel. Graendal knows she would lose. *NM* Logain - 28/11/2009 10:07:27 PM 666 Views
Disagreement Corwin - 19/11/2009 01:39:49 AM 1241 Views
Some more from Brandon... kcf - 19/11/2009 04:29:41 AM 1135 Views
So we're back where we started? fionwe1987 - 19/11/2009 04:56:36 AM 932 Views
Re: So we're back where we started? kcf - 19/11/2009 05:18:15 AM 1249 Views
Someone must ask him: Is Cyndane one of the 6 above Nynaeve. Shannow - 19/11/2009 05:35:10 AM 1107 Views
My opinion: down this path lies insanity. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 19/11/2009 02:53:59 PM 1190 Views
Thoughts Heiko - 19/11/2009 04:55:09 AM 1271 Views
Re: Thanks to Sanderson, we now have a DEFINITIVE female Forsaken strength list... The_Archer - 10/12/2010 07:55:51 PM 1126 Views
we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:36:50 PM 1128 Views
Re: we know from a direcet quote in TPoD that Nynaeve had not yet reached full strength The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:17:48 PM 1160 Views
winning in TAR had nothing to do with OP strength... that was pure skill and later Moghedien lost! darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 04:14:26 PM 1109 Views
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