Oh, and regarding the new Travelling skill Nynaeve mentions in tGS...
Shannow Send a noteboard - 21/11/2009 08:03:45 AM
At the Cleansing it was revealed that the likes of Demandred and Cyndane could make new gateways immediately after arriving at the Battle Zone. This defied the existing explanation that you had to spend time getting to know a place before you could make gateways from it.
Personally, I think RJ saw the tactical need to be able to make a lot of gateways quickly in the heat of battle, so he had to change the rule somewhat to explain how this is possible.
Pretty soon after Winter's Heart, if I recall correctly, Rand suddenly mentions that you don't have to know a place to make gateways for short distances (i.e. to destinations in close proximity to the first gateway.) Now this goes against the explanation we had before, as making a gateway does not mean you have to know your destination, but that you have to know where you're Travelling from.
In any case, Rand now makes gateways to places within the same city with no problem. This despite the fact that Skimming was used for such short distance Travelling in the past.
But now, RJ had another problem. The implication of making a gateway FROM somewhere, however short it might be, is that you now KNOW that place. Certainly, when using saidar you make your destination similar to your departure point.
So the net result is that once you've made a gateway from a place, even if it is for a short distance, then you KNOW that part of the Pattern.
In tGS, Nynaeve observes Rand making use of this principle. When he doesn't know a place well enough to Travel from it, he simply makes a "short" gateway to somewhere close by - which now is possible as per Demandred and Cyndane at the Cleansing.
Then he immediately closes this "short" gateway, without actually using it. The purpose of this exercise was to familiarize himself with the area. So now he is able to make a "long" gateway, to anywhere he chooses to go.
The net effect is that he no longer has to wait and familiarize himself with an area. Instead, by using this trick he can Travel anywhere at any time.
The whole of the above obviously begs the question: "Why didn't Asmodean just teach him this trick instead of going into the long explanation of why Skimming is necessary if you know your destination but not your departure point.
And why did Asmodean use Skimming to get to Rhuidean, and not just this much quicker trick, which would have handed him the Choedan Kal without any interference from Rand. In hindsight of course.
Personally, I think RJ saw the tactical need to be able to make a lot of gateways quickly in the heat of battle, so he had to change the rule somewhat to explain how this is possible.
Pretty soon after Winter's Heart, if I recall correctly, Rand suddenly mentions that you don't have to know a place to make gateways for short distances (i.e. to destinations in close proximity to the first gateway.) Now this goes against the explanation we had before, as making a gateway does not mean you have to know your destination, but that you have to know where you're Travelling from.
In any case, Rand now makes gateways to places within the same city with no problem. This despite the fact that Skimming was used for such short distance Travelling in the past.
But now, RJ had another problem. The implication of making a gateway FROM somewhere, however short it might be, is that you now KNOW that place. Certainly, when using saidar you make your destination similar to your departure point.
So the net result is that once you've made a gateway from a place, even if it is for a short distance, then you KNOW that part of the Pattern.
In tGS, Nynaeve observes Rand making use of this principle. When he doesn't know a place well enough to Travel from it, he simply makes a "short" gateway to somewhere close by - which now is possible as per Demandred and Cyndane at the Cleansing.
Then he immediately closes this "short" gateway, without actually using it. The purpose of this exercise was to familiarize himself with the area. So now he is able to make a "long" gateway, to anywhere he chooses to go.
The net effect is that he no longer has to wait and familiarize himself with an area. Instead, by using this trick he can Travel anywhere at any time.
The whole of the above obviously begs the question: "Why didn't Asmodean just teach him this trick instead of going into the long explanation of why Skimming is necessary if you know your destination but not your departure point.
And why did Asmodean use Skimming to get to Rhuidean, and not just this much quicker trick, which would have handed him the Choedan Kal without any interference from Rand. In hindsight of course.
If the Forsaken really wanted to defeat the Light - gateways at the bottom of the ocean...
- 20/11/2009 02:02:59 PM
2035 Views
I've actually thought that would be a great way to make a power plant.
- 20/11/2009 02:48:21 PM
1023 Views
The Forsaken don't think like that
- 20/11/2009 02:57:27 PM
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I specifically referred to Ishamael, who shares none of those motivations with the other Forsaken...
- 20/11/2009 03:11:26 PM
1277 Views
What in the world... outer space?? This is fantasy, not sci-fi
*NM*
- 20/11/2009 03:08:26 PM
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*NM*
- 20/11/2009 03:08:26 PM
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RJ has stated that channelers can Travel to other planets, even other solar systems...
- 20/11/2009 03:12:37 PM
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I didn't expect him to answer that question, it was just something I was wondering about
- 20/11/2009 04:06:53 PM
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OK...
- 20/11/2009 05:15:32 PM
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Moghedien talks about how they travelled to other stars in the Age of Legends...
- 20/11/2009 06:09:17 PM
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Because it is a world that is undergoing an industrial revolution
- 21/11/2009 01:19:28 AM
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This brings up an "Evil Wins, What Next?" scenario I've always wondered about
- 20/11/2009 03:39:14 PM
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The DO doesn't have the motivations of the forsaken, he doesn't think like a human...
- 22/11/2009 03:38:15 PM
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They would have to know the bottom of the ocean very well to create. *NM*
- 20/11/2009 05:02:50 PM
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Wouldn't be too hard, given Rand's trick. *NM*
- 20/11/2009 05:12:22 PM
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Intense preasure would kill you before you could weave or a hell of a shield bubble *NM*
- 20/11/2009 07:01:58 PM
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Gateway "magic" accounts for this, or most gateways would have STRONG breeze
- 20/11/2009 06:43:44 PM
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Very conducive places, the bottom of the sea and outer space...
- 20/11/2009 07:01:56 PM
4382 Views
Knee jerk disagreement without thinking beyond: "I don't like the idea so let's flame it..."
- 20/11/2009 07:12:38 PM
1161 Views
And your response is even sillier ideas? Think for more than three minutes before responding again.
- 20/11/2009 11:08:59 PM
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You need to go read FoH again...
- 21/11/2009 03:35:01 AM
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The Silliness Continues-Part IV of Shannow's crazy ways to commit suicide...
- 21/11/2009 05:44:34 AM
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On the limits of power
- 21/11/2009 07:32:44 AM
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Great question. These fundamental issues are the REAL challenges to be overcome, yes...
- 21/11/2009 07:50:46 AM
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Fluids CAN move across gateways on their own. We saw it with the draft of wind in tGS. *NM*
- 21/11/2009 01:32:46 PM
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Oh, and regarding the new Travelling skill Nynaeve mentions in tGS...
- 21/11/2009 08:03:45 AM
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Ah, thanks
- 21/11/2009 08:10:48 AM
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Actually, I just reread that passage, and now I'm confused again...
- 21/11/2009 08:30:17 AM
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Its pretty simple...
- 21/11/2009 08:07:14 PM
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You don't learn a place when you Travel TO it...
- 21/11/2009 08:23:11 PM
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The same issue again...
- 21/11/2009 08:58:37 PM
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They might have shared Gateways, so only those who wove them know the area? *NM*
- 21/11/2009 10:00:04 PM
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That has to be the first sensible question broached in this thread...
- 21/11/2009 09:18:59 PM
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- 21/11/2009 09:18:59 PM
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The simplest explanation'd be that GWs can't be opened in water, since it moves/changes constantly
- 20/11/2009 07:27:08 PM
845 Views
Or balefire Rand. Wait a few generations near Dragonmount, kidnap all children born on the slopes...
- 20/11/2009 09:07:46 PM
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Why didn't Frodo and Sam just ride the Eagles to Mt. Doom, and toss the Ring then fly back? *NM*
- 20/11/2009 10:35:17 PM
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Actually here's an even simpler idea: open a gateway into a Black Hole. *NM*
- 21/11/2009 01:53:38 AM
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You can't...there aren't any Black Holes close enough...
- 21/11/2009 03:22:38 AM
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Doubtful
- 21/11/2009 03:29:35 AM
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Surely Moridin could channel enough of the True Power... *NM*
- 21/11/2009 01:19:05 PM
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Moridin cannot channel any more of the True Power than he can of the One Power.
- 21/11/2009 01:58:30 PM
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*NM*