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Re: Hmmm... Sidious Send a noteboard - 27/11/2009 04:42:36 PM

Yup. And Egwene says Bode's potential is little short of her own. Meaning Cadsuane is just a step below Egwene. Merise's statement also confirms this.


Cadsuane = 1.5 Aes Sedai
Egwene = 2 Aes Sedai
Nynaeve = 3 Aes Sedai... IMHO

But Metaraa was mentioned as soon as a PoV character met these WF!


So?

And we know much noise has been made about Nicola, Bode and Sharina. Anyone else in this range would have been mentioned as well.


Bode? Since when?

We could go on about this. All I can see is that among the huge number of Wise Ones so many PoV characters have come across, only Tamela and Viendre have been shown to be stronger than Aviendha for sure. And the Wise Ones are not sitting in the Waste. They are all in the Wetlands now.


But not all together! It's the truth that Aviendha is probably one of the strongest Wise Ones. But saying that we know for certain of all the Wise Ones of great strength is mad. If not for the weaving ceremony with Tamela and Viendre, we'd never have heard of them.

Moggy said Elayne was strong enough to be trouble, and Elayne wasn't even close to her potential at this time.
Given how the Forsaken tend to downplay others, this statement that Elayne can be trouble needs to be revisited. What exactly does it say about Elayne that Moghedien think she can be trouble?
What does it mean that Be'lal thinks Elayne and Egwene can serve as very useful pawns? He dismisses Moiraine, after all.


Be'lal says the girls are less than nothing, and maybe one day they'll be something. Not only that, but in both Be'lal and Moghedien's case, you're taking statements that are clearly focussed on Nynaeve's incredible strength and passing them on to Elayne or Egwene.

Yup. But since Merise is near the top of the current AS strength tree, she is not, say, as weak as Elza, compared to Cadsuane.


True, but what's your point?

Six times as strong as Moiraine and co.? I don't think so. Four times as strong, maybe, for the strongest of them. The Aes Sedai are weak, but not that weak.


And yet six linked women are often overcome by males of great strength and killed or stilled. It's likely that Lanfear can match the strength of a powerful False Dragon and cannot be overwhelmed by six.

And the point I was trying to make with the Egwene-Moiraine comparison is that Egwene linked with Lelaine and Romanda should be comfortably able to take on any of the Forsaken. I point again to Verin's circle against Graendal.


I've mentioned by hesitance with that example. A mixed link is much stronger than a single-sex one and people died when they tried to kill Aran'gar. Lews Therin said that no three women could take him unless one was Semirhage. This clearly implies that Egwene and co would have an unfortunate ending with some of the more powerful Forsaken.

But neither of these are strong angreal. Verin is much weaker than Egwene, and it is doubtful if her angreal boosted her much above Egwene.


As I said to Darius, Elayne did not have much respect for the turtle angreal despite the fact that it made her twice as strong as Nynaeve.

And Shalon and especially Kumira are weaker than Lelaine and Romanda. Yet, a link of three women individually only equal to or much weaker than Egwene's circle managed to fend off Graendal with an angreal.


Angreals make these debates moot. It's not even that alone. Alivia had a strong angreal and was still handed her ass by Cyndane. There are many factors like skill, and the Forsaken tend to have the highest of strength and skill.

We have seen her against the Senachan. Though the sa'angreal of course makes any conclusion impossible.

Yes, but I don't know how she'd react to a duel with say, Moghedien. She's never fought another powerful channeler before.

She calls them imitation Aes Sedai, continuing her show of conempt for them. But she doesn't include Cadsuane in that list. Maybe that was just because Cadsuane had broken her. But it might also indicate that Cadsuane is not so weak as to be laughd away by the Forsaken.


I think Semirhage took more notice of Cadsuane because of her status, age and strength. Cadsuane was the one who defeated Semirhage, along with Nynaeve. She also has an angreal and dangerous ter'angreal. That makes her a threat to Semirhage on many levels.

I never thought they could contest any of the Forsaken. Only the weaker ones.


Like? Moghedien?

But the fact that two in a weakened state can match one of the Forsaken says a lot about their eventual strength.


Well even in TGS, Egwene says that one Sister can hold her. It's not the same with Nynaeve. I think these are all clues to the gap between them.

Egwene is able to shield Sheriam without a thought, but Nynaeve is unable to shield Elayne at a pinch. Seems to me the difference is not so great.


I addressed this with darius. Nynaeve lashed out in anger, and she's a ridiculously emotional channeler. With concentration she's been shown to shield both Moghedien and Talaan.
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