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Re: Who said she wasn't wrong? fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 13/12/2009 08:12:25 AM

Is that a typo or are you subconsciously unwilling to admit Egwene's erring?

Typo it is!

Hmm. Well, we can hope. I'm more surprised at the absence of any mention of the Logain lie. Especially when we think of how violently Pevara reacted to seeing one of the ferrets, I'd have expected Elaida at least to rant about it. So maybe you are right. I think RJ was aware of this facet of Egwene's personality, as he used it elsewhere too, as I'll explain below.

I was surprised by that too. It really was shoddy writing to ignore that. Especially with her acceptance of the Reds, and choosing a Keeper from among them. I mean, the whole thing could be dealt with easily. Someone asks her if the Reds aren't to be punished for their crimes. She says TG is in the offing, and such things cannot be worked out now. Matter solved for the moment at least. But no...


That's not the problem. Of course she won't. But hypocrisy is the pretense of having moral or virtuous character that one does not in fact possess. Every time she rants about the immorality of someone else using the Oaths to Compel Aes Sedai, she is implying her own moral superiority to them, and using that to her advantage, when she is in fact equally guilty of such actions.

First, I think I've proved that what she did was indeed not the same as using the Oath Rod.
Second, notice what happens with the BA hunters. She accepts their explanation that they needed the fourth Oath to carry their extraordinary plan forward. It is only when they overstep and ask Meidani to do something she certainly would not of her own free will, something that had nothing to do with their extraordinary situation and everything to do with their convinience, that Egwene gets really pissed.
It was the equivalent of Egwene commiting murder in front of the sisters sworn to her and ordering them to never reveal what they knew. I don't know if she could enforce this, but if she could and did, and then condemned the BA hunters, then you'd have a basis to talk.

A similar incident from Egwene is when, in an attempt to prevent Nynaeve from revealing her lies to the Wise Ones, she punishes Nynaeve for lying.

And did Egwene claim to be a paragon of honesty? Read the scene again... Nynaeve is talking about following the rules and speaking the truth, when Egwene challenges her by saying Nynaeve herself was not honest. She was dealing with Nynaeve's hypocrisy, not saying that she was honest and Nynaeve was not.
As an analogy, think of your elder brother accusing you of playing while not doing your homework. Ten minutes ago, he himself was doing the exact same thing, so you call him out on it (in a reprehensible and none too pleasant manner). Are you a hypocrite, or are you calling him out on his hypocrisy?


Of course. But that still means she cannot distinguish the effects of the two.

What two? Blackmail and Compulsion? Of course she can!
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Egwene - hypocrite Taer - 10/12/2009 01:20:24 PM 1535 Views
Re: Egwene - hypocrite Elvira_Sedai - 10/12/2009 01:33:00 PM 1052 Views
Not the same at all really Sidious - 10/12/2009 02:12:36 PM 789 Views
How do you explain the BA Hunters? Taer - 10/12/2009 02:21:28 PM 729 Views
I agree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2009 03:03:49 PM 692 Views
Agreed Sidious - 10/12/2009 04:01:40 PM 591 Views
Disagree Taer - 10/12/2009 04:50:13 PM 673 Views
Just Agree to Disagree *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 11/12/2009 12:53:46 PM 272 Views
What crime? Accepting her unethical promotions? Being afraid of the Hall's injustice? Cannoli - 10/12/2009 03:51:05 PM 692 Views
Well... Sidious - 10/12/2009 03:58:48 PM 685 Views
Don't be ridiculous Cannoli - 17/12/2009 12:05:46 PM 572 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2009 05:54:39 PM 562 Views
She threatened, or made an implied threat, to reveal what they had done. Cannoli - 17/12/2009 12:11:43 PM 576 Views
Re: What crime? Accepting her unethical promotions? Being afraid of the Hall's injustice? randfandom - 10/12/2009 09:08:08 PM 623 Views
It does NOT violate Tower Law, as Myrelle herself said, and Siuan admits. Cannoli - 17/12/2009 12:23:25 PM 597 Views
I can't decide if you just don't understand the books at all darius_sedai - 13/12/2009 05:14:22 AM 524 Views
I have doubts about RJ's brain if he actually believed some of the crap he has characters spew Cannoli - 17/12/2009 12:26:52 PM 563 Views
Let he who has no sin cast the first stone redhand - 10/12/2009 04:34:06 PM 611 Views
Re: Let he who has no sin cast the first stone Sidious - 12/12/2009 12:41:33 PM 558 Views
Leane too darius_sedai - 13/12/2009 06:09:31 AM 544 Views
Not really DomA - 10/12/2009 03:06:30 PM 665 Views
But what the Amylin said is law, like how she raised those Accepted. redhand - 10/12/2009 04:42:51 PM 602 Views
Re: But what the Amylin said is law, like how she raised those Accepted. DomA - 10/12/2009 11:04:47 PM 631 Views
Really Taer - 10/12/2009 04:52:10 PM 560 Views
Re: Really DomA - 10/12/2009 11:56:30 PM 664 Views
No she was right, and even her blackmail, as reprehensible as that was, was not an act of tyranny Cannoli - 10/12/2009 03:56:41 PM 740 Views
Sure. Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2009 05:03:00 PM 545 Views
Actually, I agree. Lord Haart - 10/12/2009 06:47:22 PM 556 Views
I like Egwene Taer - 10/12/2009 07:08:24 PM 608 Views
That really disappointed me. Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2009 07:29:14 PM 649 Views
funny, I'm more of the mind set that both groups were right darius_sedai - 11/12/2009 12:02:50 AM 574 Views
Not the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 11/12/2009 12:13:26 AM 516 Views
I do agree with DomA and the others on the point that darius_sedai - 11/12/2009 07:13:31 AM 578 Views
Re: I do agree with DomA and the others on the point that Fanatic-Templar - 11/12/2009 08:20:19 AM 637 Views
*shrugs* darius_sedai - 11/12/2009 02:06:47 PM 594 Views
You have no basis for that assertion. Fanatic-Templar - 11/12/2009 07:12:03 PM 573 Views
Not really the case darius_sedai - 11/12/2009 07:20:43 PM 574 Views
They refuse to reveal the Ajah Heads to Egwene, despite her express orders. Doubt Meidani could... fionwe1987 - 12/12/2009 09:44:23 AM 668 Views
Ah, true that. Fanatic-Templar - 12/12/2009 07:20:04 PM 569 Views
Who said she wasn't wrong? fionwe1987 - 12/12/2009 09:02:55 PM 541 Views
Re: Who said she wasn't wrong? Fanatic-Templar - 13/12/2009 04:16:56 AM 583 Views
Re: Who said she wasn't wrong? fionwe1987 - 13/12/2009 08:12:25 AM 621 Views
Re: Who said she wasn't wrong? Fanatic-Templar - 13/12/2009 07:35:10 PM 534 Views
Re: Who said she wasn't wrong? darius_sedai - 13/12/2009 08:27:53 PM 524 Views
Not true. Fanatic-Templar - 14/12/2009 02:41:28 AM 635 Views
I agree with most of your point darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 09:49:18 PM 657 Views
Fealty swearing sisters are no longer around... randfandom - 11/12/2009 12:57:49 AM 545 Views
Re: Fealty swearing sisters are no longer around... darius_sedai - 11/12/2009 07:18:33 AM 564 Views
The main differences between the two oaths randfandom - 10/12/2009 07:00:55 PM 784 Views
Of course she is a hypocrite Knightscape - 11/12/2009 05:22:56 AM 577 Views
The same can be said of Nynaeve and Mat darius_sedai - 11/12/2009 07:20:47 AM 591 Views
Probably because they're all human Sidious - 12/12/2009 12:43:53 PM 516 Views
darius_sedai - 12/12/2009 04:05:13 PM 606 Views
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