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I have a hard time... Etzel Send a noteboard - 19/01/2010 02:17:52 PM
To believe that Graendal saw Elza in TAR, apparently Delved her there and then taught her the necessary weaves to get the DM, because she figured that this would ultimately lead to a confrontation, where Rand will balefire Semirhage with the TP to protect Min. At least to me the idea that Graendal could foresee all this seems very far-fetched (similar to the idea that she figured out how Rand would try to kill her and fled before the balefire came).

I also think Graendal's involvement makes then only sense, if she closely worked together with SH, knew everything about Moridin's link to Rand and that Semirhage should be sacrificed. I don't believe, though, that Moridin would give this away, since it's basically a great weakness for him.

And why wouldn't Graendal visit Elza then in the real world and already cure her Compulsion, and avoid losing any time by teaching Elza those weaves, because Graendal could simply get the DM on her own & give it to Elza.

Besides that, BS didn't even said that Elza was taught any AoL weaves, but that Elza "had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves", and this seems to be related to becoming SH's tool. To me this rather sounds, as if SH was responsible. We have other examples of people, who were obviously changed by the TP, e.g. Alviarin, Fain or Slayer.
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Elza's Compulsion - 14/01/2010 08:41:04 PM 1972 Views
I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story - 14/01/2010 09:12:05 PM 914 Views
I disagree - 14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM 769 Views
except work with Semirhage! - 14/01/2010 09:34:37 PM 699 Views
Well... - 14/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 776 Views
SH can't channel thus can't teach Elza anything *NM* - 14/01/2010 10:20:19 PM 275 Views
Yeah, but according to BS, he apparently could "give her the knowledge". *shrug* *NM* - 15/01/2010 07:16:22 AM 250 Views
that's your interpretation of the quote - 15/01/2010 05:58:30 PM 601 Views
This and the others quotes suggest that only SH and Elza were involved *NM* - 16/01/2010 09:51:24 AM 225 Views
As I said that's certainly one of of interpreting the quotes - 16/01/2010 03:46:55 PM 542 Views
The question is... - 16/01/2010 03:59:24 PM 556 Views
Re: The question is... - 16/01/2010 04:02:55 PM 546 Views
Yeah, as I said elsewhere, would be a nice question for BS, if there was another Forsaken. *NM* - 16/01/2010 04:08:05 PM 583 Views
I bet you anything he'd giva a big fat RAFO to that - 16/01/2010 04:08:58 PM 546 Views
BS spoke quite openly about this scene, though - 16/01/2010 04:16:09 PM 569 Views
always worth a try, but wasn't he asked to be less open recently? - 16/01/2010 04:31:54 PM 542 Views
Shaidar Haran can't channel. - 14/01/2010 09:34:51 PM 901 Views
I know... - 14/01/2010 09:45:15 PM 758 Views
I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ... - 14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM 840 Views
That doesn't prove anything... - 14/01/2010 10:07:46 PM 788 Views
It proves enough for me ... - 14/01/2010 10:26:28 PM 673 Views
Re: That doesn't prove anything... - 15/01/2010 11:03:05 AM 511 Views
not really - 15/01/2010 05:29:25 PM 531 Views
I don't understand your theory - 16/01/2010 05:08:03 PM 524 Views
It's very simple - 16/01/2010 06:17:36 PM 514 Views
So in other words - 17/01/2010 06:31:58 PM 630 Views
no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct - 17/01/2010 06:43:41 PM 531 Views
Re: no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct - 18/01/2010 04:48:33 AM 558 Views
I'm talking about implanting knowledge into someone elses head - 18/01/2010 05:37:32 AM 560 Views
Here's Brandon's one answer - 18/01/2010 05:20:20 PM 557 Views
But... - 18/01/2010 05:48:54 PM 540 Views
Exactly my point - 18/01/2010 06:24:25 PM 574 Views
But by this logic... - 18/01/2010 06:50:43 PM 516 Views
Yes... - 18/01/2010 07:00:40 PM 574 Views
While you are right... - 18/01/2010 08:44:19 PM 559 Views
as we've discussed in another thread - 18/01/2010 09:08:56 PM 939 Views
I mean... - 19/01/2010 02:21:39 PM 559 Views
Weren't they specifically called Weaves that haven't been seen since the AoL? - 19/01/2010 05:26:38 PM 589 Views
"Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves" is the quote. - 19/01/2010 06:14:22 PM 517 Views
Well if they were secret Ajah weaves someone would have recognized them *NM* - 19/01/2010 06:21:19 PM 246 Views
Maybe secret BA weaves... - 19/01/2010 06:37:42 PM 762 Views
Possible since she was the only BA in the area - 19/01/2010 06:40:38 PM 796 Views
See, I think there's reason for her presence to be kept secret... - 18/01/2010 09:10:43 PM 601 Views
I have a hard time... - 19/01/2010 02:17:52 PM 615 Views
I agree with you - 19/01/2010 04:45:59 PM 538 Views
and you may very well be correct - 19/01/2010 05:39:02 PM 751 Views
Yet Rand/LTT tells us only a few chapters later - 14/01/2010 10:27:57 PM 620 Views
Anything is possible ... - 14/01/2010 10:54:46 PM 632 Views
who knows - 14/01/2010 11:21:43 PM 600 Views
It's not all that convoluted, though ... - 15/01/2010 03:26:01 PM 503 Views
Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end - 15/01/2010 05:57:10 PM 684 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end - 15/01/2010 06:25:32 PM 567 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end - 15/01/2010 06:44:26 PM 534 Views
Good point! - 15/01/2010 07:19:00 AM 617 Views
Re: Good point! - 15/01/2010 05:30:12 PM 510 Views
I agree - 16/01/2010 09:50:09 AM 505 Views
what doesn't make sense about this to me - 15/01/2010 06:04:45 PM 581 Views
Re: what doesn't make sense about this to me - 15/01/2010 06:29:59 PM 574 Views
damn double posting - 15/01/2010 07:04:56 PM 521 Views
As it is often the case... - 16/01/2010 09:30:56 AM 617 Views
go re-read my statements and quit putting words in my mouth please. - 16/01/2010 03:59:52 PM 570 Views
Well... - 16/01/2010 04:14:28 PM 464 Views
as I said it's also possible that SH has new abilities - 16/01/2010 04:33:30 PM 506 Views
Re: I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story - 14/01/2010 09:30:53 PM 613 Views
Uhhh? - 14/01/2010 09:13:13 PM 756 Views
One point - 14/01/2010 09:20:09 PM 706 Views
Re: One point - 14/01/2010 09:32:00 PM 631 Views
Elza truly believes that... - 14/01/2010 09:38:35 PM 623 Views
Elza "found a reason to follow the Compulsion" - 14/01/2010 11:23:33 PM 672 Views
So, it came from her, and would not go when the Compulsion was removed. - 15/01/2010 05:56:32 AM 601 Views
fair enough - 16/01/2010 04:34:05 PM 660 Views
Not quite - 14/01/2010 09:38:45 PM 645 Views

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