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I disagree Etzel Send a noteboard - 14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM
BS's quotes suggest that there were only SH and Elza involved:

Q. "How did Elza defeat the wards on Cadsuane's plain wooden box?"
A. "Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves, and in other ways made into a tool of Shaidar Haran. Not all of it was pleasant for her."

We don't know how, but apparently SH gave Elza this knowledge, when she was made into his tool.

And:
Q: "You mention that Shaidar Haran has quite a few limitations on his power. Can you give us a few concrete examples of these limitations?"
A: "Shaidar Haran needs a minion to most of his work for him. Elza was essential to Shaidar Haran in getting things done."

If Graendal (or one of Moridin's pets) was there, Elza certainly wouldn't be that essential for SH to getting things done. Graendal could have done everything even better than Elza.
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Elza's Compulsion Sidious - 14/01/2010 08:41:04 PM 2162 Views
I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:12:05 PM 1084 Views
I disagree Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:27:27 PM 954 Views
except work with Semirhage! darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:34:37 PM 882 Views
Well... Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 1033 Views
SH can't channel thus can't teach Elza anything *NM* darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 10:20:19 PM 370 Views
Yeah, but according to BS, he apparently could "give her the knowledge". *shrug* *NM* Etzel - 15/01/2010 07:16:22 AM 319 Views
that's your interpretation of the quote darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:58:30 PM 768 Views
This and the others quotes suggest that only SH and Elza were involved *NM* Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:51:24 AM 297 Views
As I said that's certainly one of of interpreting the quotes darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:46:55 PM 700 Views
The question is... Etzel - 16/01/2010 03:59:24 PM 713 Views
Re: The question is... darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:02:55 PM 706 Views
Yeah, as I said elsewhere, would be a nice question for BS, if there was another Forsaken. *NM* Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:08:05 PM 802 Views
I bet you anything he'd giva a big fat RAFO to that darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:08:58 PM 717 Views
BS spoke quite openly about this scene, though Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:16:09 PM 764 Views
always worth a try, but wasn't he asked to be less open recently? darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:31:54 PM 749 Views
Shaidar Haran can't channel. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/01/2010 09:34:51 PM 1102 Views
I know... Etzel - 14/01/2010 09:45:15 PM 937 Views
I agree with you, for a related but slightly different reason ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 09:58:28 PM 1024 Views
That doesn't prove anything... fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 10:07:46 PM 958 Views
It proves enough for me ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 10:26:28 PM 865 Views
Re: That doesn't prove anything... Sidious - 15/01/2010 11:03:05 AM 673 Views
not really darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:29:25 PM 705 Views
I don't understand your theory Sidious - 16/01/2010 05:08:03 PM 678 Views
It's very simple darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 06:17:36 PM 674 Views
So in other words Sidious - 17/01/2010 06:31:58 PM 794 Views
no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct darius_sedai - 17/01/2010 06:43:41 PM 698 Views
Re: no I'd continue to insist that something disproved was correct Sidious - 18/01/2010 04:48:33 AM 726 Views
I'm talking about implanting knowledge into someone elses head darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 05:37:32 AM 703 Views
Here's Brandon's one answer Sidious - 18/01/2010 05:20:20 PM 752 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 05:48:54 PM 712 Views
Exactly my point darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 06:24:25 PM 727 Views
But by this logic... Etzel - 18/01/2010 06:50:43 PM 674 Views
Yes... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 07:00:40 PM 719 Views
While you are right... Etzel - 18/01/2010 08:44:19 PM 705 Views
as we've discussed in another thread darius_sedai - 18/01/2010 09:08:56 PM 1112 Views
I mean... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:21:39 PM 725 Views
Weren't they specifically called Weaves that haven't been seen since the AoL? darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 05:26:38 PM 745 Views
"Elza had been given knowledge of several rarely known weaves" is the quote. Etzel - 19/01/2010 06:14:22 PM 674 Views
Well if they were secret Ajah weaves someone would have recognized them *NM* darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:21:19 PM 319 Views
Maybe secret BA weaves... Etzel - 19/01/2010 06:37:42 PM 930 Views
Possible since she was the only BA in the area darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 06:40:38 PM 958 Views
See, I think there's reason for her presence to be kept secret... fionwe1987 - 18/01/2010 09:10:43 PM 784 Views
I have a hard time... Etzel - 19/01/2010 02:17:52 PM 784 Views
I agree with you Sidious - 19/01/2010 04:45:59 PM 735 Views
and you may very well be correct darius_sedai - 19/01/2010 05:39:02 PM 940 Views
Yet Rand/LTT tells us only a few chapters later darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 10:27:57 PM 781 Views
Anything is possible ... Shishka - 14/01/2010 10:54:46 PM 796 Views
who knows darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 11:21:43 PM 758 Views
It's not all that convoluted, though ... Shishka - 15/01/2010 03:26:01 PM 665 Views
Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 05:57:10 PM 855 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end Shishka - 15/01/2010 06:25:32 PM 737 Views
Re: Cyndane/Moggy/Graendal it all amounts to the same in the end darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 06:44:26 PM 688 Views
Good point! Etzel - 15/01/2010 07:19:00 AM 779 Views
Re: Good point! Shishka - 15/01/2010 05:30:12 PM 675 Views
I agree Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:50:09 AM 656 Views
what doesn't make sense about this to me darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 06:04:45 PM 742 Views
Re: what doesn't make sense about this to me Shishka - 15/01/2010 06:29:59 PM 752 Views
this makes my head hurt ... or maybe all that red wine I drank last night is doing that darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 07:04:23 PM 725 Views
damn double posting darius_sedai - 15/01/2010 07:04:56 PM 669 Views
As it is often the case... Etzel - 16/01/2010 09:30:56 AM 769 Views
go re-read my statements and quit putting words in my mouth please. darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 03:59:52 PM 724 Views
Well... Etzel - 16/01/2010 04:14:28 PM 617 Views
as I said it's also possible that SH has new abilities darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:33:30 PM 668 Views
Re: I think Graendal was involved on some level in this part of the story RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/01/2010 09:30:53 PM 773 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 09:13:13 PM 966 Views
One point darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 09:20:09 PM 849 Views
Re: One point Oberonus - 14/01/2010 09:32:00 PM 774 Views
Elza truly believes that... fionwe1987 - 14/01/2010 09:38:35 PM 788 Views
Elza "found a reason to follow the Compulsion" darius_sedai - 14/01/2010 11:23:33 PM 840 Views
So, it came from her, and would not go when the Compulsion was removed. Cannoli - 15/01/2010 05:56:32 AM 786 Views
fair enough darius_sedai - 16/01/2010 04:34:05 PM 812 Views
Not quite rAndy aL - 14/01/2010 09:38:45 PM 804 Views
But that could mean that they were to start the LB between Rand and the Great Lord immediately *NM* Voscaia Sedai - 16/01/2010 01:04:32 PM 319 Views
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