Re: My Lanfear/Cyndane theory has been disproven.
callandor1000 Send a noteboard - 20/01/2010 07:51:38 PM
Until recently, I've been clinging strongly to my theory that Lanfear was burnt out when Mo pushed her through the 'Finn doorway, and that, after she freed herself from being held by the 'Finn (or was rescued), she returned to SG where the DO transmigrated her into a new body (even though she was still alive) in order to restore her abililty to channel (because I don't think being burnt out can be Healed).
However, there are some recent BS Q&As that pretty much disprove this theory.
Q: So, considering Jordan's statement about stilling and burning out not affecting the channeling ability of the new life of a soul, is it the same for the new life of a soul transmigrated?
A: I’m going to say that transmigrated...if you were burned out and transmigrated you would still be burned out, is my guess.
Q: Is that a MAFO [ask Maria and Find Out] question? Or...
A: That is my guess, and you can MAFO it if you want to send it to me, but that is a “I’m pretty sure” answer.
In the same sequence of Q&A above, BS also said:
Q: So, we will understand then in the next book why [re Cyndane] there is a decrease in Power but not a significant decrease?
A: Yes.
So, from this last quote, we can see that BS knows exactly why Cyndane is weaker in the OP than when she was Lanfear. And if he knows that, he knows exactly how/why Lanfear got the Cyndane body in the first place (BS didn't actually state outright that Cyndane=Lanfear, but as far as I'm concerned that's not an arguable point).
Yet, from the first quote, he's mostly sure that if you are burned out and then transmigrated, you will still be burned out in the new body. Even if he's wrong, it's clear that my burned out / transmigration theory re Lanfear/Cyndane is wrong - otherwise, BS would be 100% sure (one way or the other) on the issue.
Anyway ... if he's right on the burned out / transmigration issue, that surprises me. Because, when Aginor died, he drew on enough OP (from the Eye) to kill himself. And, you'd think he'd have been burned out simultaneously - it's hard to imagine that he could draw enough OP to kill himself without also burning out. Yet, when he was transmigrated, he wasn't burned out. *shrugs*
Also ... in the same set of Q&A, BS said that he originally thought that Cyndane was very weak (because he thought she should be), but that Maria showed him some RJ notes that explained otherwise. He also said that Cyndane's current strength in the OP is her actual strength - i.e that her strength is not being manipulated by outside forces. So, that disproves the theory that Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear because the DO is shielding part of her strength (which I'm glad to see disproven - I've always thought that was highly unlikely).
What's interesting here is the BS originally thought Cyndane should be very weak. The only thing I can think of that would make him think that is because her ability to channel has been Healed (by a woman), and he was likening her reduction in strength to what happened to Siuan and Leane. What other reason would BS have for thinking Cyndane should be very weak?
If my reasoning above is correct, then we can use that as evidence that Cyndane has had her ability to channel Healed by a woman (meaning she was either Stilled, or perhaps burned out, at some point), and that BS was simply wrong (originally) about what her resulting strength should be (until Maria clarified the issue for him). Yet, BS wasn't 100% sure about the burned out / transmigration issue. It's very puzzling.
If I'm right that BS's answers to these questions mean that Cyndane's ability to channel has been Healed, then the only scenario I can think of that allows for that AND explains why she has a new body is the following:
1. Lanfear was Stilled, not Burned Out, when Mo tackled her through the doorway.
2. She later died, after being held by the 'Finn for awhile.
3. The DO transmigrated her into the Cyndane body, but she remained Stilled.
4. She was then Healed by a woman, to her current strength (i.e. less than Lanfear, but greater than Graendal).
So, BS was only mostly certain, but not 100% certain, about the Burned Out / Transmigration issue because Lanfear was Stilled, not Burned Out, and he wasn't 100% sure that the two situations were identical in terms of the Transmigration issue.
Thoughts?
However, there are some recent BS Q&As that pretty much disprove this theory.
Q: So, considering Jordan's statement about stilling and burning out not affecting the channeling ability of the new life of a soul, is it the same for the new life of a soul transmigrated?
A: I’m going to say that transmigrated...if you were burned out and transmigrated you would still be burned out, is my guess.
Q: Is that a MAFO [ask Maria and Find Out] question? Or...
A: That is my guess, and you can MAFO it if you want to send it to me, but that is a “I’m pretty sure” answer.
In the same sequence of Q&A above, BS also said:
Q: So, we will understand then in the next book why [re Cyndane] there is a decrease in Power but not a significant decrease?
A: Yes.
So, from this last quote, we can see that BS knows exactly why Cyndane is weaker in the OP than when she was Lanfear. And if he knows that, he knows exactly how/why Lanfear got the Cyndane body in the first place (BS didn't actually state outright that Cyndane=Lanfear, but as far as I'm concerned that's not an arguable point).
Yet, from the first quote, he's mostly sure that if you are burned out and then transmigrated, you will still be burned out in the new body. Even if he's wrong, it's clear that my burned out / transmigration theory re Lanfear/Cyndane is wrong - otherwise, BS would be 100% sure (one way or the other) on the issue.
Anyway ... if he's right on the burned out / transmigration issue, that surprises me. Because, when Aginor died, he drew on enough OP (from the Eye) to kill himself. And, you'd think he'd have been burned out simultaneously - it's hard to imagine that he could draw enough OP to kill himself without also burning out. Yet, when he was transmigrated, he wasn't burned out. *shrugs*
Also ... in the same set of Q&A, BS said that he originally thought that Cyndane was very weak (because he thought she should be), but that Maria showed him some RJ notes that explained otherwise. He also said that Cyndane's current strength in the OP is her actual strength - i.e that her strength is not being manipulated by outside forces. So, that disproves the theory that Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear because the DO is shielding part of her strength (which I'm glad to see disproven - I've always thought that was highly unlikely).
What's interesting here is the BS originally thought Cyndane should be very weak. The only thing I can think of that would make him think that is because her ability to channel has been Healed (by a woman), and he was likening her reduction in strength to what happened to Siuan and Leane. What other reason would BS have for thinking Cyndane should be very weak?
If my reasoning above is correct, then we can use that as evidence that Cyndane has had her ability to channel Healed by a woman (meaning she was either Stilled, or perhaps burned out, at some point), and that BS was simply wrong (originally) about what her resulting strength should be (until Maria clarified the issue for him). Yet, BS wasn't 100% sure about the burned out / transmigration issue. It's very puzzling.
If I'm right that BS's answers to these questions mean that Cyndane's ability to channel has been Healed, then the only scenario I can think of that allows for that AND explains why she has a new body is the following:
1. Lanfear was Stilled, not Burned Out, when Mo tackled her through the doorway.
2. She later died, after being held by the 'Finn for awhile.
3. The DO transmigrated her into the Cyndane body, but she remained Stilled.
4. She was then Healed by a woman, to her current strength (i.e. less than Lanfear, but greater than Graendal).
So, BS was only mostly certain, but not 100% certain, about the Burned Out / Transmigration issue because Lanfear was Stilled, not Burned Out, and he wasn't 100% sure that the two situations were identical in terms of the Transmigration issue.
Thoughts?
The only thought I have is that maybe she's weaker because a TP Shield was woven on her, one similar to the one she wove on Asmo, that limits the amount that can be channeled. Moridin decided she needed most of her strength to be useful to him and not be outmatched by the other female Forsaken, but her pride needs to be hurt enough so that she knows she can't channel the most right now. She's just as strong as her peers.
Your mom. That's right. The cat is out of the bag. Your mom.
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My Lanfear/Cyndane theory has been disproven.
- 20/01/2010 05:12:58 PM
2985 Views
It was discussed
- 20/01/2010 05:27:43 PM
1302 Views
Re: It was discussed
- 20/01/2010 07:09:01 PM
1106 Views
Maybe...
- 20/01/2010 07:15:57 PM
1024 Views
Re: Maybe...
- 20/01/2010 08:53:47 PM
1077 Views
That doesn't really jive with Aran'gar though
- 20/01/2010 09:03:35 PM
1021 Views
But...
- 20/01/2010 09:11:47 PM
989 Views
I think it's pretty obvious that pretty much any man is going to be
- 20/01/2010 09:41:40 PM
942 Views
Maybe there is a difference between male souls and female souls ...
- 20/01/2010 09:35:57 PM
1031 Views
Plausible
- 20/01/2010 09:45:21 PM
1132 Views
Actually, I didn't mean to imply that my idea of female strength is related to body size ...
- 20/01/2010 10:10:48 PM
988 Views
It's NOT due to Stilling or Healing and it's NOT due to Cyndane's weaker body...
- 20/01/2010 06:46:08 PM
1133 Views
I think Moiraine's gaining strength seems a little too LotR.
- 20/01/2010 06:55:34 PM
1076 Views
I think Moraine gaining strength is VERY LotR. That's why I think RJ went with it... *NM*
- 20/01/2010 06:57:39 PM
612 Views
I also like that theory
- 20/01/2010 07:14:20 PM
1050 Views
I think BS's error regarding Cyndane's strength can also be explained by this theory...
- 20/01/2010 07:17:59 PM
1045 Views
Cadsuane is considerably stronger than Moiraine
- 20/01/2010 07:31:42 PM
1058 Views
Nope...
- 20/01/2010 07:38:55 PM
1045 Views
I disagree as usual
- 20/01/2010 07:45:29 PM
966 Views
We don't know the magnitude of what Aes Sedai consider a significant strength difference...
- 20/01/2010 07:54:38 PM
1030 Views
You are comparing Male and female strength here
- 20/01/2010 08:18:45 PM
1079 Views
Why do you misquote Moiraine?
- 20/01/2010 08:39:55 PM
1041 Views
Agreeing to disagree here ... we interpret the evidence differently and it's futile to argue.
- 20/01/2010 08:41:08 PM
1224 Views
Cadsuane isn't too strong
- 21/01/2010 04:19:41 AM
1037 Views
Actually...
- 21/01/2010 05:57:43 AM
1037 Views
Re: Actually...
- 21/01/2010 12:31:53 PM
1053 Views
Re: I think BS's error regarding Cyndane's strength can also be explained by this theory...
- 20/01/2010 07:43:28 PM
1050 Views
Agree with both your comments...
- 20/01/2010 07:46:07 PM
1055 Views
Hmm ... I think maybe BS DID know about Cyndane being stronger than Graendal ...
- 20/01/2010 09:20:31 PM
1020 Views
But seriously...
- 21/01/2010 12:14:16 PM
933 Views
Re: But seriously...
- 21/01/2010 12:34:18 PM
1120 Views
Also would explain the question of why Moiraine left the angreal on the wagon instead of using it...
- 21/01/2010 02:30:46 PM
1088 Views
I think it makes more sense...
- 21/01/2010 02:34:30 PM
1045 Views
Lanfear would have been toast if Moiraine had the angreal, plus foreknowledge of the confrontation..
- 21/01/2010 02:38:57 PM
1046 Views
In her letter to Thom
- 21/01/2010 02:55:32 PM
1055 Views
That's my interpretation, also ...
- 21/01/2010 04:00:35 PM
931 Views
Nods in agreement
- 21/01/2010 06:24:59 PM
1074 Views
I always figured Lanfear bargained away some power to escape the Finns
- 20/01/2010 07:37:31 PM
1057 Views
Re: My Lanfear/Cyndane theory has been disproven.
- 20/01/2010 07:51:38 PM
1316 Views
That idea has also been disproven ...
- 20/01/2010 08:19:22 PM
1167 Views
I think it may be more simple than it seems.
- 21/01/2010 04:15:05 PM
1119 Views
Doesn't fit with BS's words
- 21/01/2010 04:27:43 PM
953 Views
Also ...
- 21/01/2010 04:32:58 PM
925 Views
I don't think BS words or Cyndane's comments really prove anything.
- 21/01/2010 04:42:59 PM
1067 Views
BS says that Cyndane is truly weaker. So, this theory is out. *NM*
- 21/01/2010 04:46:48 PM
626 Views
Re: BS says that Cyndane is truly weaker. So, this theory is out.
- 21/01/2010 04:49:09 PM
1026 Views
Well, actually
- 21/01/2010 04:54:17 PM
947 Views
Re: Well, actually
- 21/01/2010 05:11:10 PM
966 Views
The wording is absolutely unambiguous, but I suppose one can argue everything.
*NM*
- 21/01/2010 05:24:03 PM
654 Views
*NM*
- 21/01/2010 05:24:03 PM
654 Views
Re: The wording is absolutely unambiguous, but I suppose one can argue everything.
- 21/01/2010 06:07:09 PM
1305 Views
- 21/01/2010 06:07:09 PM
1305 Views
I agree
- 21/01/2010 06:23:34 PM
1043 Views
Re: I agree
- 21/01/2010 07:59:36 PM
1035 Views
Re: I agree
- 22/01/2010 07:23:37 AM
954 Views
Re: I agree
- 22/01/2010 11:11:55 AM
1118 Views
LOL ... I love that you of all people are going to fall back on this argument!
- 22/01/2010 07:41:00 PM
990 Views
Re: LOL ... I love that you of all people are going to fall back on this argument!
- 22/01/2010 08:05:08 PM
1110 Views
and you have zero evidence that Lanfear is considerably stronger than the others
- 22/01/2010 11:23:11 PM
861 Views
It's also a totally abstruse explanation, though, and therefore certainy wrong.
*NM*
- 22/01/2010 11:55:17 AM
832 Views
*NM*
- 22/01/2010 11:55:17 AM
832 Views
I think...
- 21/01/2010 06:46:57 PM
987 Views
Re: I think...
- 21/01/2010 06:58:49 PM
887 Views
You are right...
- 21/01/2010 07:12:47 PM
998 Views
Anyone who thinks she's hiding her strength is wrong
- 21/01/2010 08:09:42 PM
1243 Views
actually if one really wants to figure out what happened to Cyndane
- 21/01/2010 07:00:33 PM
1186 Views
Dumb question, but do transmigrated souls need to re-reach their full potential?
- 21/01/2010 06:19:57 PM
1024 Views
It seems like they start out as powerful as they were, but I don't think it's ever been stated *NM*
- 21/01/2010 06:44:45 PM
637 Views
