Re: My Lanfear/Cyndane theory has been disproven.
callandor1000 Send a noteboard - 20/01/2010 07:51:38 PM
Until recently, I've been clinging strongly to my theory that Lanfear was burnt out when Mo pushed her through the 'Finn doorway, and that, after she freed herself from being held by the 'Finn (or was rescued), she returned to SG where the DO transmigrated her into a new body (even though she was still alive) in order to restore her abililty to channel (because I don't think being burnt out can be Healed).
However, there are some recent BS Q&As that pretty much disprove this theory.
Q: So, considering Jordan's statement about stilling and burning out not affecting the channeling ability of the new life of a soul, is it the same for the new life of a soul transmigrated?
A: I’m going to say that transmigrated...if you were burned out and transmigrated you would still be burned out, is my guess.
Q: Is that a MAFO [ask Maria and Find Out] question? Or...
A: That is my guess, and you can MAFO it if you want to send it to me, but that is a “I’m pretty sure” answer.
In the same sequence of Q&A above, BS also said:
Q: So, we will understand then in the next book why [re Cyndane] there is a decrease in Power but not a significant decrease?
A: Yes.
So, from this last quote, we can see that BS knows exactly why Cyndane is weaker in the OP than when she was Lanfear. And if he knows that, he knows exactly how/why Lanfear got the Cyndane body in the first place (BS didn't actually state outright that Cyndane=Lanfear, but as far as I'm concerned that's not an arguable point).
Yet, from the first quote, he's mostly sure that if you are burned out and then transmigrated, you will still be burned out in the new body. Even if he's wrong, it's clear that my burned out / transmigration theory re Lanfear/Cyndane is wrong - otherwise, BS would be 100% sure (one way or the other) on the issue.
Anyway ... if he's right on the burned out / transmigration issue, that surprises me. Because, when Aginor died, he drew on enough OP (from the Eye) to kill himself. And, you'd think he'd have been burned out simultaneously - it's hard to imagine that he could draw enough OP to kill himself without also burning out. Yet, when he was transmigrated, he wasn't burned out. *shrugs*
Also ... in the same set of Q&A, BS said that he originally thought that Cyndane was very weak (because he thought she should be), but that Maria showed him some RJ notes that explained otherwise. He also said that Cyndane's current strength in the OP is her actual strength - i.e that her strength is not being manipulated by outside forces. So, that disproves the theory that Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear because the DO is shielding part of her strength (which I'm glad to see disproven - I've always thought that was highly unlikely).
What's interesting here is the BS originally thought Cyndane should be very weak. The only thing I can think of that would make him think that is because her ability to channel has been Healed (by a woman), and he was likening her reduction in strength to what happened to Siuan and Leane. What other reason would BS have for thinking Cyndane should be very weak?
If my reasoning above is correct, then we can use that as evidence that Cyndane has had her ability to channel Healed by a woman (meaning she was either Stilled, or perhaps burned out, at some point), and that BS was simply wrong (originally) about what her resulting strength should be (until Maria clarified the issue for him). Yet, BS wasn't 100% sure about the burned out / transmigration issue. It's very puzzling.
If I'm right that BS's answers to these questions mean that Cyndane's ability to channel has been Healed, then the only scenario I can think of that allows for that AND explains why she has a new body is the following:
1. Lanfear was Stilled, not Burned Out, when Mo tackled her through the doorway.
2. She later died, after being held by the 'Finn for awhile.
3. The DO transmigrated her into the Cyndane body, but she remained Stilled.
4. She was then Healed by a woman, to her current strength (i.e. less than Lanfear, but greater than Graendal).
So, BS was only mostly certain, but not 100% certain, about the Burned Out / Transmigration issue because Lanfear was Stilled, not Burned Out, and he wasn't 100% sure that the two situations were identical in terms of the Transmigration issue.
Thoughts?
However, there are some recent BS Q&As that pretty much disprove this theory.
Q: So, considering Jordan's statement about stilling and burning out not affecting the channeling ability of the new life of a soul, is it the same for the new life of a soul transmigrated?
A: I’m going to say that transmigrated...if you were burned out and transmigrated you would still be burned out, is my guess.
Q: Is that a MAFO [ask Maria and Find Out] question? Or...
A: That is my guess, and you can MAFO it if you want to send it to me, but that is a “I’m pretty sure” answer.
In the same sequence of Q&A above, BS also said:
Q: So, we will understand then in the next book why [re Cyndane] there is a decrease in Power but not a significant decrease?
A: Yes.
So, from this last quote, we can see that BS knows exactly why Cyndane is weaker in the OP than when she was Lanfear. And if he knows that, he knows exactly how/why Lanfear got the Cyndane body in the first place (BS didn't actually state outright that Cyndane=Lanfear, but as far as I'm concerned that's not an arguable point).
Yet, from the first quote, he's mostly sure that if you are burned out and then transmigrated, you will still be burned out in the new body. Even if he's wrong, it's clear that my burned out / transmigration theory re Lanfear/Cyndane is wrong - otherwise, BS would be 100% sure (one way or the other) on the issue.
Anyway ... if he's right on the burned out / transmigration issue, that surprises me. Because, when Aginor died, he drew on enough OP (from the Eye) to kill himself. And, you'd think he'd have been burned out simultaneously - it's hard to imagine that he could draw enough OP to kill himself without also burning out. Yet, when he was transmigrated, he wasn't burned out. *shrugs*
Also ... in the same set of Q&A, BS said that he originally thought that Cyndane was very weak (because he thought she should be), but that Maria showed him some RJ notes that explained otherwise. He also said that Cyndane's current strength in the OP is her actual strength - i.e that her strength is not being manipulated by outside forces. So, that disproves the theory that Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear because the DO is shielding part of her strength (which I'm glad to see disproven - I've always thought that was highly unlikely).
What's interesting here is the BS originally thought Cyndane should be very weak. The only thing I can think of that would make him think that is because her ability to channel has been Healed (by a woman), and he was likening her reduction in strength to what happened to Siuan and Leane. What other reason would BS have for thinking Cyndane should be very weak?
If my reasoning above is correct, then we can use that as evidence that Cyndane has had her ability to channel Healed by a woman (meaning she was either Stilled, or perhaps burned out, at some point), and that BS was simply wrong (originally) about what her resulting strength should be (until Maria clarified the issue for him). Yet, BS wasn't 100% sure about the burned out / transmigration issue. It's very puzzling.
If I'm right that BS's answers to these questions mean that Cyndane's ability to channel has been Healed, then the only scenario I can think of that allows for that AND explains why she has a new body is the following:
1. Lanfear was Stilled, not Burned Out, when Mo tackled her through the doorway.
2. She later died, after being held by the 'Finn for awhile.
3. The DO transmigrated her into the Cyndane body, but she remained Stilled.
4. She was then Healed by a woman, to her current strength (i.e. less than Lanfear, but greater than Graendal).
So, BS was only mostly certain, but not 100% certain, about the Burned Out / Transmigration issue because Lanfear was Stilled, not Burned Out, and he wasn't 100% sure that the two situations were identical in terms of the Transmigration issue.
Thoughts?
The only thought I have is that maybe she's weaker because a TP Shield was woven on her, one similar to the one she wove on Asmo, that limits the amount that can be channeled. Moridin decided she needed most of her strength to be useful to him and not be outmatched by the other female Forsaken, but her pride needs to be hurt enough so that she knows she can't channel the most right now. She's just as strong as her peers.
Your mom. That's right. The cat is out of the bag. Your mom.
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My Lanfear/Cyndane theory has been disproven.
20/01/2010 05:12:58 PM
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It was discussed
20/01/2010 05:27:43 PM
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Re: It was discussed
20/01/2010 07:09:01 PM
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Maybe...
20/01/2010 07:15:57 PM
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Re: Maybe...
20/01/2010 08:53:47 PM
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That doesn't really jive with Aran'gar though
20/01/2010 09:03:35 PM
- 751 Views
But...
20/01/2010 09:11:47 PM
- 718 Views
I think it's pretty obvious that pretty much any man is going to be
20/01/2010 09:41:40 PM
- 680 Views
Maybe there is a difference between male souls and female souls ...
20/01/2010 09:35:57 PM
- 756 Views
Plausible
20/01/2010 09:45:21 PM
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Actually, I didn't mean to imply that my idea of female strength is related to body size ...
20/01/2010 10:10:48 PM
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It's NOT due to Stilling or Healing and it's NOT due to Cyndane's weaker body...
20/01/2010 06:46:08 PM
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I think Moiraine's gaining strength seems a little too LotR.
20/01/2010 06:55:34 PM
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I think Moraine gaining strength is VERY LotR. That's why I think RJ went with it... *NM*
20/01/2010 06:57:39 PM
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I also like that theory
20/01/2010 07:14:20 PM
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I think BS's error regarding Cyndane's strength can also be explained by this theory...
20/01/2010 07:17:59 PM
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Cadsuane is considerably stronger than Moiraine
20/01/2010 07:31:42 PM
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Nope...
20/01/2010 07:38:55 PM
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I disagree as usual
20/01/2010 07:45:29 PM
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We don't know the magnitude of what Aes Sedai consider a significant strength difference...
20/01/2010 07:54:38 PM
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You are comparing Male and female strength here
20/01/2010 08:18:45 PM
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Why do you misquote Moiraine?
20/01/2010 08:39:55 PM
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Agreeing to disagree here ... we interpret the evidence differently and it's futile to argue.
20/01/2010 08:41:08 PM
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Cadsuane isn't too strong
21/01/2010 04:19:41 AM
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Actually...
21/01/2010 05:57:43 AM
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Re: Actually...
21/01/2010 12:31:53 PM
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Re: I think BS's error regarding Cyndane's strength can also be explained by this theory...
20/01/2010 07:43:28 PM
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Agree with both your comments...
20/01/2010 07:46:07 PM
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Hmm ... I think maybe BS DID know about Cyndane being stronger than Graendal ...
20/01/2010 09:20:31 PM
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But seriously...
21/01/2010 12:14:16 PM
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Re: But seriously...
21/01/2010 12:34:18 PM
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Also would explain the question of why Moiraine left the angreal on the wagon instead of using it...
21/01/2010 02:30:46 PM
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I think it makes more sense...
21/01/2010 02:34:30 PM
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Lanfear would have been toast if Moiraine had the angreal, plus foreknowledge of the confrontation..
21/01/2010 02:38:57 PM
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In her letter to Thom
21/01/2010 02:55:32 PM
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That's my interpretation, also ...
21/01/2010 04:00:35 PM
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Nods in agreement
21/01/2010 06:24:59 PM
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I always figured Lanfear bargained away some power to escape the Finns
20/01/2010 07:37:31 PM
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Re: My Lanfear/Cyndane theory has been disproven.
20/01/2010 07:51:38 PM
- 999 Views
That idea has also been disproven ...
20/01/2010 08:19:22 PM
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I think it may be more simple than it seems.
21/01/2010 04:15:05 PM
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Doesn't fit with BS's words
21/01/2010 04:27:43 PM
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Also ...
21/01/2010 04:32:58 PM
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I don't think BS words or Cyndane's comments really prove anything.
21/01/2010 04:42:59 PM
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BS says that Cyndane is truly weaker. So, this theory is out. *NM*
21/01/2010 04:46:48 PM
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Re: BS says that Cyndane is truly weaker. So, this theory is out.
21/01/2010 04:49:09 PM
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Well, actually
21/01/2010 04:54:17 PM
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Re: Well, actually
21/01/2010 05:11:10 PM
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The wording is absolutely unambiguous, but I suppose one can argue everything. *NM*
21/01/2010 05:24:03 PM
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Re: The wording is absolutely unambiguous, but I suppose one can argue everything.
21/01/2010 06:07:09 PM
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I agree
21/01/2010 06:23:34 PM
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Re: I agree
21/01/2010 07:59:36 PM
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Re: I agree
22/01/2010 07:23:37 AM
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Re: I agree
22/01/2010 11:11:55 AM
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LOL ... I love that you of all people are going to fall back on this argument!
22/01/2010 07:41:00 PM
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Re: LOL ... I love that you of all people are going to fall back on this argument!
22/01/2010 08:05:08 PM
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and you have zero evidence that Lanfear is considerably stronger than the others
22/01/2010 11:23:11 PM
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It's also a totally abstruse explanation, though, and therefore certainy wrong. *NM*
22/01/2010 11:55:17 AM
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I think...
21/01/2010 06:46:57 PM
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Re: I think...
21/01/2010 06:58:49 PM
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You are right...
21/01/2010 07:12:47 PM
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Anyone who thinks she's hiding her strength is wrong
21/01/2010 08:09:42 PM
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actually if one really wants to figure out what happened to Cyndane
21/01/2010 07:00:33 PM
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Dumb question, but do transmigrated souls need to re-reach their full potential?
21/01/2010 06:19:57 PM
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It seems like they start out as powerful as they were, but I don't think it's ever been stated *NM*
21/01/2010 06:44:45 PM
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