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I didn't see that in Alia Larry Send a noteboard - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM
Not much to comment on. "Dune Messiah" is my least favorite of the novels, and it acts as a stop-gap before Leto II and Ghanima accomplish what Paul did not want to do - force an evolution of humanity.

This novel is more about Paul's limitations and his lack of ease with his role. We see Alia pushing her limits constantly and increasing her muscular control and prophetic abilities to a level that Paul has not.

This novel is more like "Oedipus Rex" in that it is largely a tragedy that ends when the next generation of Atreides takes over the rulership from the prior generation.


If anything, Children of Dune makes it clear that Alia doesn't have prescient powers. Rather, she just has her ancestral memories to fall back upon to guide her, a very dangerous development as is seen in Children of Dune.

I'll agree that it's a tragedy, but Oedipus Rex wasn't exactly the type of story that came to mind when I read this, unless you're also thinking of the king who had his son exposed to the elements because of an Oracle?
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within) Larry - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM 2187 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune HyogaRott - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM 1277 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune Larry - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM 1497 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune HyogaRott - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM 1410 Views
Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there. lord-of-shadow - 17/04/2010 06:54:14 PM 1441 Views
Re: Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there. HyogaRott - 17/04/2010 10:44:18 PM 1300 Views
I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" Larry - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM 1396 Views
Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" HyogaRott - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM 1460 Views
Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? Chas - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM 1246 Views
Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? HyogaRott - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM 1320 Views
That was most of my issue. Chas - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM 1166 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. HyogaRott - 21/04/2010 06:33:14 PM 1124 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. Chas - 29/04/2010 11:38:26 PM 1100 Views
Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme random thoughts - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM 1271 Views
Thank you for saying concisely the point I have been trying to make. *NM* HyogaRott - 21/04/2010 06:34:12 PM 547 Views
A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present Larry - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM 1211 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present DomA - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM 1158 Views
Good points Larry - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM 1223 Views
Re: Good points DomA - 22/04/2010 10:55:21 PM 1155 Views
when you call it human ecology I come much closer to agreeing random thoughts - 22/04/2010 02:16:58 PM 1180 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present HyogaRott - 22/04/2010 04:08:28 PM 1093 Views
Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects Larry - 22/04/2010 09:28:05 PM 1219 Views
Re: Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects HyogaRott - 23/04/2010 05:22:22 PM 1134 Views
Re: Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme Chas - 29/04/2010 11:36:45 PM 1239 Views
Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. Ghavrel - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM 1268 Views
Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. HyogaRott - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM 1141 Views
You're not using "archaic" correctly Larry - 20/04/2010 10:07:31 PM 1116 Views
Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. Ghavrel - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM 1036 Views
doesn't that regulate the point down to interesting trivia? random thoughts - 21/04/2010 02:36:38 PM 1187 Views
Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. HyogaRott - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM 1271 Views
Funny the things people focus on Larry - 21/04/2010 11:24:59 PM 1147 Views
Re: Funny the things people focus on HyogaRott - 23/04/2010 05:28:54 PM 1145 Views
People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book random thoughts - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM 1690 Views
Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM* Ghavrel - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM 588 Views
I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune random thoughts - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM 1334 Views
Ecology goes more than one way Larry - 17/04/2010 12:12:45 AM 1288 Views
There are several points to the book/series Larry - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM 1377 Views
Everyone get something different from a book random thoughts - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM 1557 Views
I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series Larry - 20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM 1292 Views
I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts Lordling - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM 1482 Views
Well, I enjoyed more of the characters this time around, if that helps Larry - 18/04/2010 12:14:43 AM 1370 Views
I hope you got to Darwi Odrade RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/04/2010 03:44:27 PM 1173 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune DomA - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM 1771 Views
I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom Larry - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM 1597 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom DomA - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM 1592 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom Macharius - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM 1433 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom DomA - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM 1175 Views
I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM* Macharius - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM 519 Views
And Dune Messiah as well was serialized at first, in Galaxy *NM* Larry - 22/04/2010 09:31:54 PM 523 Views
Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) Larry - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM 1892 Views
Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM 1186 Views
I didn't see that in Alia Larry - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM 1102 Views
There were a few scenes displaying Alia's abilities/mindset. (spoilers) RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/04/2010 03:54:32 PM 1089 Views
OK, that makes a bit more sense, as I wasn't for sure what you were arguing at first Larry - 22/04/2010 09:14:46 PM 1194 Views
One of my favorite series! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM 1084 Views
I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it Larry - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM 1020 Views
Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM 1110 Views
His style doesn't appeal to me as much, unfortunately Larry - 22/04/2010 09:17:21 PM 1052 Views
You might want to track down his short stories one day... DomA - 23/04/2010 02:06:09 PM 1235 Views
Children of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) Larry - 22/04/2010 06:47:04 AM 1232 Views
See...I think I made a mistake in my reading of Dune Brian - 22/04/2010 07:26:28 AM 1194 Views
Depends Larry - 22/04/2010 08:01:39 AM 1080 Views
Re: Depends Brian - 22/04/2010 11:12:15 PM 1466 Views
read something else random thoughts - 23/04/2010 07:49:34 PM 1063 Views
LA Times article on Dune (4/18/2010) Larry - 23/04/2010 10:59:00 AM 1023 Views
God Emperor of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) Larry - 25/04/2010 02:03:37 AM 1420 Views
Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) Larry - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM 1069 Views
Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) DomA - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM 1190 Views
I read the wiki synopses of those two books Larry - 29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM 1088 Views
Re: I read the wiki synopses of those two books DomA - 10/05/2010 04:10:49 AM 1442 Views
Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) Larry - 30/04/2010 02:31:10 PM 1257 Views
Re: Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) DomA - 10/05/2010 01:24:33 AM 1307 Views
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