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Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects Larry Send a noteboard - 22/04/2010 09:28:05 PM
Once you narrrow the focus to "Human Ecology" and use it as an umbrella for the political/religious/moral themes of the book then it does come down to a disagreement over semantics. I would still disagree with using it as a stated tehme because it reaches for too much and obscures what I consider teh "real themes" of the novel unless the express purpose is to tie all the human elements into a nice package, while seeriously delving into all of its sub-units; more of the heading to a review/critique than a point of the review itself. Though where the Eart Day comment fits into it I still don't understand.


I wasn't really "narrowing it down" as much as clarifying that ecological systems include human ecology. And themes can be overarching or they can be relatively specific. Here, I'm referring to an overarching theme that is related to several of the more specific themes, such as several of the ones that Dom mentions in his reply in this subthread.

Again, the Earth Day comment was mostly to place the novel in a historical context. Basically, before anything resembling the modern environmentalist movement(s) began, there was this interesting SF novel that used ecosystems (encompassing more than just plant/non-human animal life) to complement and to strengthen the narrative being told.

I seem to recall an observation in one of the first three books (one that I've seen echoed in several other places) that it is no surprise that the three dominant monotheistic religions on this planet today developed in steppe or desert-like environments.

The statement may have been made, but it is not accurate. Christianity and Islam spun off of Judidism and that evolved from, or replaced (documentation gets REAL sketchy as to which), a polytheistic religion. The desert/stepes obsercation breaks down becasue all 3 are from the same religious tree. Perhaps that is why there has been such hostility for the last 3,000 years between them; but that is an entirely different conversation that belongs nowhere near this site.


I'm very aware of that. You misinterpreted what I wrote. I know quite well the influences on each of the three Abrahamic faiths and that those major influences on the genesis of those three branches come from the Fertile Crescent, the Nile Valley, and the Arabian Desert. I could talk about pigs for a while, but let's just say there's an environmental reason why pig eating was taboo in much of that region during the development of those faiths (with the exception of Pauline Christianity, which was heavily Hellenized).
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within) - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM 2236 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM 1314 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM 1530 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM 1456 Views
I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM 1436 Views
Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM 1497 Views
Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM 1278 Views
Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM 1360 Views
That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM 1195 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 06:33:14 PM 1152 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 29/04/2010 11:38:26 PM 1124 Views
Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM 1336 Views
A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM 1241 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM 1208 Views
Good points - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM 1262 Views
Re: Good points - 22/04/2010 10:55:21 PM 1198 Views
when you call it human ecology I come much closer to agreeing - 22/04/2010 02:16:58 PM 1215 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 22/04/2010 04:08:28 PM 1130 Views
Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects - 22/04/2010 09:28:05 PM 1257 Views
Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM 1307 Views
Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM 1181 Views
You're not using "archaic" correctly - 20/04/2010 10:07:31 PM 1153 Views
Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM 1069 Views
doesn't that regulate the point down to interesting trivia? - 21/04/2010 02:36:38 PM 1224 Views
Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM 1306 Views
Funny the things people focus on - 21/04/2010 11:24:59 PM 1178 Views
Re: Funny the things people focus on - 23/04/2010 05:28:54 PM 1170 Views
People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM 1731 Views
Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM* - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM 604 Views
I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM 1365 Views
Ecology goes more than one way - 17/04/2010 12:12:45 AM 1329 Views
There are several points to the book/series - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM 1416 Views
Everyone get something different from a book - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM 1588 Views
I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series - 20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM 1340 Views
I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM 1511 Views
I hope you got to Darwi Odrade - 21/04/2010 03:44:27 PM 1209 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM 1806 Views
I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM 1626 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM 1624 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM 1468 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM 1209 Views
I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM* - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM 532 Views
And Dune Messiah as well was serialized at first, in Galaxy *NM* - 22/04/2010 09:31:54 PM 536 Views
Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM 1951 Views
Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM 1216 Views
I didn't see that in Alia - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM 1136 Views
One of my favorite series! - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM 1123 Views
I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM 1049 Views
Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM 1143 Views
His style doesn't appeal to me as much, unfortunately - 22/04/2010 09:17:21 PM 1082 Views
You might want to track down his short stories one day... - 23/04/2010 02:06:09 PM 1267 Views
Children of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 22/04/2010 06:47:04 AM 1262 Views
See...I think I made a mistake in my reading of Dune - 22/04/2010 07:26:28 AM 1225 Views
Depends - 22/04/2010 08:01:39 AM 1117 Views
Re: Depends - 22/04/2010 11:12:15 PM 1492 Views
read something else - 23/04/2010 07:49:34 PM 1099 Views
LA Times article on Dune (4/18/2010) - 23/04/2010 10:59:00 AM 1051 Views
God Emperor of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 25/04/2010 02:03:37 AM 1456 Views
Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM 1108 Views
Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM 1227 Views
I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM 1119 Views
Re: I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 10/05/2010 04:10:49 AM 1482 Views
Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 30/04/2010 02:31:10 PM 1298 Views
Re: Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 10/05/2010 01:24:33 AM 1351 Views

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