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Yes Camilla Send a noteboard - 12/05/2010 10:10:30 PM
This is from the section shortly after Kris's first visitation, when he is confronting Snow. Snow lays down the basic thematic argument of the novel, in a more broad sense of humans rather than the specific 'I'. (From page 72 of my copy)

    We take off into the cosmos, ready for anything:for solitude, for hardship, for exhaustion, death. Modesty forbids us to say so, but there are times when we think pretty well of ourselves. And yet, if we examine it more closely, our enthusiasm turns out to be all sham. We don't want to conquer the cosmos, we simply want to extend the boundaries of Earth to the frontiers of the cosmos. For us, such and such a planet is as arid as the Sahara, another as frozen as the North Pole, yet another as lush as the Amazon basin. We are humanitarian and chivalrous; we don't want to enslave other races, we simply want to bequeath them our values and take over their heritage in exchange. We think ourselves as the Knights of the Holy Contact. This is another lie. We are only seeking Man. We have no need for other worlds. We need mirrors. We don't know what to do with other worlds. A single world, our own, suffices us; but we can't accept it for what it is. We are searching for and ideal image of our own world: we go in quest of a planet, of a civilization superior to our own but developed on the basis of a prototype of our primeval past. At the same time, there is something inside us which we don't like to face up to, from which we try to protect ourselves, but which nevertheless remains, since we don't leave Earth in a state of primal innocence. We arrive here as we are in reality, and when the page is turned and that reality is revealed to us - that part of our reality which we would prefer to pass over in silence - then we don't like it anymore.


I actually noted that same passage, or most of it, down in my book journal (which I am increasingly happy about keeping -- I make my self write down thoughts on what I have read every day). It is interesting that you picked up on the same one.

This is Lem's opening accusation or argument. I think that the same argument can be focused to point directly to the individual and on the scale of a life. Something like... We can't really accept ourselves for who we are. We seek out others, but we are really looking for ourselves. We don't really see others. We see mirrors. We want to see mirrors... flattering mirrors. As a generalized depiction of humans, I think we can see this.

Now, life and the human consciousness isn't nice and black and white. I think that it is possible to know others, to experience outside of yourself, your own frame of reference. But, I do think that we are all conditioned to think in a Me and Other context, and that Other brings the Me into focus.


Hmmm. But you can never know the Other completely. I think that is the point. What you know of the other will always be your take on the other, in other words yourself in something else. That isn't a good description. It sounds wrong. Hmmm. I'll think on it and see if I can describe it better tomorrow.

*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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Sci-Fi Book Club: SOLARIS by Stanislaw Lem Jacob - 19/04/2010 05:50:45 PM 1814 Views
Roll-Call: Have you read it? Are you reading it? Like it: Yes/NO? *NM* Jacob - 19/04/2010 05:52:00 PM 617 Views
I read it back in January. Tom - 19/04/2010 06:23:29 PM 1122 Views
I read it years ago, and liked it. *NM* Legolas - 19/04/2010 06:41:36 PM 592 Views
I just finished it. Rebekah - 19/04/2010 06:54:49 PM 1063 Views
Well, to be fair, Jacob - 20/04/2010 08:12:17 PM 1018 Views
Heh. Rebekah - 21/04/2010 08:31:51 AM 1247 Views
Re: Well, to be fair, Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:06:06 PM 988 Views
That was how I felt too. Tashmere - 20/04/2010 11:39:15 PM 840 Views
I read it 3 years ago, and liked it. Linda - 19/04/2010 06:58:37 PM 1304 Views
Yes, I read it. Must be something like... eh. it was before the clooney horror movie came out? *NM* jh - 19/04/2010 07:23:15 PM 629 Views
I read it, and liked it. wahooka - 19/04/2010 07:33:16 PM 1109 Views
I plan to Camilla - 19/04/2010 07:41:21 PM 1201 Views
I might re-read it in a few days Larry - 19/04/2010 09:11:35 PM 1017 Views
I'm currently reading it Mark - 20/04/2010 10:00:05 AM 1285 Views
That has always bothered me too. Jacob - 20/04/2010 08:20:56 PM 894 Views
I am with you on that. It may not be rational or my reasons have to do with vanity Tashmere - 20/04/2010 11:18:53 PM 847 Views
Re: When you look through Lem's page on Solaris covers, that one is the least interesting. Danae al'Thor - 24/04/2010 10:01:50 AM 977 Views
Indeed Camilla - 11/05/2010 03:02:26 PM 954 Views
It was a while since I've read it Ellestra - 22/04/2010 05:33:44 AM 918 Views
I have started reading it Camilla - 11/05/2010 11:10:53 AM 877 Views
Translation: Jacob - 19/04/2010 05:54:57 PM 1170 Views
I read it in Russian, which was very close to the original. Tom - 19/04/2010 06:25:00 PM 1153 Views
I'm not sure now, I think I read it in Dutch. Legolas - 19/04/2010 06:43:30 PM 1075 Views
English translation by Joanna Kilmartin and Steve Cox (1970). Rebekah - 19/04/2010 06:56:54 PM 1037 Views
Translation of a translation, actually. *NM* jh - 19/04/2010 07:22:18 PM 560 Views
Yes, I did read Jake's intro piece there. *NM* Rebekah - 19/04/2010 07:23:44 PM 568 Views
I figured you were not accurate enough. jh - 19/04/2010 07:26:54 PM 1017 Views
Pffft. Accuracy is for nerds. Rebekah - 19/04/2010 07:31:52 PM 1100 Views
That was the one I read. Tashmere - 20/04/2010 01:43:01 AM 1231 Views
Read a swedish translation back then. jh - 19/04/2010 07:28:14 PM 948 Views
Yes, the version I read was translated from polish. All the names were intact from the original *NM* Dragonsworn - 20/04/2010 12:17:42 AM 566 Views
I read it in Czech wahooka - 19/04/2010 07:40:05 PM 1285 Views
I also read a Swedish translation. Linda - 19/04/2010 07:41:31 PM 1390 Views
1970 translation from French to English by Joanna Kilmartin and Steve Cox everynametaken - 20/04/2010 02:20:42 AM 1141 Views
I have a different opinion on this. Jacob - 20/04/2010 08:17:06 PM 1034 Views
I've read it in Polish Ellestra - 22/04/2010 05:32:33 AM 871 Views
Re: So it's flat and boring? Danae al'Thor - 23/04/2010 09:50:38 PM 1004 Views
Re: Does anyone know why the Polish publishers haven't commissioned another translation? Danae al'Thor - 24/04/2010 10:04:38 AM 988 Views
Rights issues, I beieve Larry - 24/04/2010 10:48:53 AM 1041 Views
So 'we' have read the novel in 6 different languages. Jacob - 27/04/2010 09:20:02 PM 887 Views
I read the English from French translation Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:10:42 PM 853 Views
This was my general experience as well. Jacob - 17/05/2010 06:53:58 PM 895 Views
So. Uh. The chick's name was Rheya in the book I read. Not in other translations? Rebekah - 19/04/2010 07:42:16 PM 1011 Views
Her name in the original is Harey, it got changed to Rheya somewhere along the way of the wahooka - 19/04/2010 07:49:33 PM 1020 Views
In Russian it was just Hari, or, more precisely, Хари. *NM* Tom - 19/04/2010 10:28:49 PM 542 Views
I haven't looked into the reasons yet, outside of what would seem obvious, Jacob - 19/04/2010 09:26:11 PM 1046 Views
Re: I think the translators just thought Harey wasn't immediately accessible as a feminine name. Danae al'Thor - 24/04/2010 09:59:17 AM 1110 Views
That is what I assumed as well. Jacob - 26/04/2010 09:40:45 PM 926 Views
I probably got more out of it than I first thought. Tashmere - 20/04/2010 11:37:52 PM 842 Views
Re: I do that too! Danae al'Thor - 23/04/2010 09:51:39 PM 876 Views
It is certainly a book that makes you think... Jacob - 26/04/2010 09:46:31 PM 901 Views
Literature vs. Genre Fiction Jacob - 21/04/2010 02:33:21 PM 1086 Views
Re: Literature vs. Genre Fiction lyringlas - 21/04/2010 08:44:24 PM 1029 Views
Re: Literature vs. Genre Fiction Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:19:31 PM 912 Views
Re: Panorphaeon - 21/04/2010 09:09:02 PM 968 Views
How do you know Solaris was an advanced intelligence? Tom - 22/04/2010 01:20:35 AM 895 Views
Fair enough. Panorphaeon - 22/04/2010 09:04:58 PM 962 Views
But I think that is Lem's point. everynametaken - 23/04/2010 03:20:18 AM 968 Views
Good point Tom. everynametaken - 23/04/2010 03:14:23 AM 869 Views
It's definitely literature Tom - 22/04/2010 01:19:34 AM 833 Views
You might be winning me over to your thoughts here. Jacob - 26/04/2010 09:42:33 PM 822 Views
In all fairness to my opponents, Solaris is one of my strongest cases. Tom - 26/04/2010 10:16:20 PM 789 Views
As long as you realize... Legolas - 26/04/2010 10:26:00 PM 869 Views
This is why I sort of float around on this issue. Jacob - 27/04/2010 05:49:39 PM 908 Views
Re: This is why I sort of float around on this issue. Camilla - 13/05/2010 10:15:38 AM 941 Views
Very well put. Jacob - 17/05/2010 06:51:27 PM 850 Views
Re: Very well put. Camilla - 17/05/2010 06:53:13 PM 954 Views
This book is definitely literature. everynametaken - 23/04/2010 02:59:48 AM 972 Views
Re: This discussion gives me hives. *NM* Danae al'Thor - 23/04/2010 09:52:09 PM 525 Views
Understandable. Jacob - 26/04/2010 07:31:08 PM 836 Views
Hmmm Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:18:42 PM 940 Views
What didn't you enjoy? Jacob - 21/04/2010 09:47:06 PM 834 Views
I didn't like the excessive description of the types of clouds on Solaris. Tom - 22/04/2010 01:17:22 AM 814 Views
This was what I disliked too Ellestra - 22/04/2010 05:46:05 AM 1030 Views
Re: I didn't like the excessive description of the types of clouds on Solaris. everynametaken - 23/04/2010 03:33:14 AM 902 Views
Re: I found it made this stark contrast with his descriptions of his own, more human environment. Danae al'Thor - 24/04/2010 09:56:40 AM 1090 Views
That is an interesting take. Jacob - 27/04/2010 05:53:23 PM 942 Views
I didn't really find anything difficult about it. everynametaken - 23/04/2010 03:38:48 AM 916 Views
The only thing that bothered me... Jacob - 03/05/2010 07:06:42 PM 1069 Views
So, is there really anything to discuss about the story itself? Larry - 22/04/2010 08:55:03 AM 1015 Views
Apparently not. Tom - 22/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 1058 Views
True Larry - 22/04/2010 09:29:53 PM 894 Views
Point of fact, Jacob - 23/04/2010 02:53:47 PM 938 Views
Perhaps it's time for a self-reevaluation then Larry - 24/04/2010 10:45:44 AM 1267 Views
They never claimed to have a monopoly on guiding the discussions. I am just happy they are starting Tashmere - 25/04/2010 05:51:01 PM 896 Views
Thank you for telling me how I should prioritize my life, Larry. Jacob - 26/04/2010 04:54:01 PM 1070 Views
At least I am not as quick to repeat the same excuses Larry - 26/04/2010 05:13:08 PM 1226 Views
I was originally gonna reply to your previous post, then decided not to. Guess I will now. Legolas - 26/04/2010 05:42:15 PM 1056 Views
Thank you. Jacob - 26/04/2010 07:41:17 PM 1024 Views
Well, when my sleeping is screwed up, interpretations are going to be wonky, it seems Larry - 27/04/2010 06:21:57 PM 991 Views
One point... Jacob - 26/04/2010 07:34:02 PM 907 Views
Posting while irritated and about to crash does little good, it seems Larry - 27/04/2010 06:20:19 PM 980 Views
The delay to the review is my fault. I've got a mostly finished one. I'm just not happy with it. Rebekah - 27/04/2010 07:19:35 PM 965 Views
It wasn't the review I was irritated about, but thanks for doing it Larry - 27/04/2010 07:39:08 PM 852 Views
Ah. OK. Rebekah - 27/04/2010 07:47:09 PM 1015 Views
Thanks Larry - 27/04/2010 07:58:54 PM 906 Views
I'm a bit ambivalent on the merits of this approach of yours. Legolas - 26/04/2010 05:32:19 PM 856 Views
You highlight my only frustration with the thread. Tom - 26/04/2010 05:48:01 PM 1178 Views
I am mostly just trying the approach out as something a little bit different. Jacob - 26/04/2010 07:23:12 PM 968 Views
Re: So what do you think about any of those things? Danae al'Thor - 23/04/2010 08:30:55 PM 880 Views
I've posted my thoughts on most of those issues in various places in this discussion. Tom - 24/04/2010 05:02:44 AM 1042 Views
Re: I think I'd just like for you to be more proactive and Start A Thread. Danae al'Thor - 24/04/2010 09:50:26 AM 964 Views
I was sort of being lazy. I'll do so now. *NM* Tom - 25/04/2010 03:20:12 PM 526 Views
A question about Lem. everynametaken - 23/04/2010 03:49:57 AM 948 Views
I've only read one other book by him, The Cyberiad Larry - 23/04/2010 04:03:19 AM 1009 Views
Re: A question about Lem. Ellestra - 23/04/2010 07:26:18 PM 995 Views
Thanks. everynametaken - 24/04/2010 06:42:05 AM 1020 Views
Yes Camilla - 24/04/2010 02:43:17 PM 972 Views
My main thoughts on Solaris by Stanislaw Lem everynametaken - 23/04/2010 02:50:10 AM 1235 Views
Re: About that "worst" thoughts issue. Danae al'Thor - 23/04/2010 09:49:04 PM 1150 Views
Re: About that "worst" thoughts issue. Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:35:48 PM 1033 Views
I came away with the same message you did on the first point. Tashmere - 25/04/2010 04:46:09 PM 875 Views
Re: My main thoughts on Solaris by Stanislaw Lem Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:31:32 PM 1041 Views
Re: So I have no team spirit and should be lynched. Danae al'Thor - 23/04/2010 09:41:48 PM 872 Views
I finally watched Avatar for the first time tonight. Tashmere - 25/04/2010 04:27:34 AM 877 Views
Solaris was, I hope, better than Avatar. Tom - 25/04/2010 04:54:12 AM 839 Views
Re: I finally watched Avatar for the first time tonight. Ellestra - 25/04/2010 01:52:19 PM 911 Views
It had more to do with recognizing mankind's tendency to imposes their ideas on other cultures. Tashmere - 25/04/2010 05:35:25 PM 954 Views
Misplaced answer . *NM* Tashmere - 25/04/2010 04:40:27 PM 439 Views
On identity and communication: do we love only ourselves? Tom - 25/04/2010 03:35:34 PM 923 Views
I did spend a lot of the book speculating on what the planet was trying to do with those supressed Tashmere - 25/04/2010 05:05:38 PM 997 Views
The argument: (From the text and some thoughts) Jacob - 27/04/2010 06:22:34 PM 856 Views
Yes Camilla - 12/05/2010 10:10:30 PM 1000 Views
That is a great idea... Jacob - 17/05/2010 06:58:48 PM 951 Views
Re: That is a great idea... Camilla - 17/05/2010 07:02:44 PM 958 Views
That settles it. I am going to have to reread it. Tashmere - 13/05/2010 12:23:14 AM 892 Views
It is interesting you should say that. Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:56:26 PM 1127 Views
That is the second time this week that I have heard something about Derrida. Now I am going to have Tashmere - 13/05/2010 12:02:56 AM 991 Views
Derrida is great. Camilla - 13/05/2010 10:06:49 AM 1002 Views
Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient? Tom - 25/04/2010 03:40:57 PM 884 Views
I can't decide. Rebekah - 25/04/2010 03:54:39 PM 1039 Views
An interesting point to consider... everynametaken - 25/04/2010 10:41:17 PM 1039 Views
Re: I can't decide. Camilla - 12/05/2010 10:05:21 PM 844 Views
Re: Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient? everynametaken - 25/04/2010 10:31:58 PM 995 Views
Ooohhhh. I like that theory. Tashmere - 25/04/2010 11:32:15 PM 1010 Views
Does it make a difference? Jacob - 26/04/2010 07:29:44 PM 851 Views
Re: Is Solaris alive? Is Solaris sentient? Camilla - 12/05/2010 09:57:05 PM 990 Views
What do you think the biggest message of the book is? Tom - 25/04/2010 03:47:03 PM 954 Views
Re: Does he let go of her? How independant is she of him? Danae al'Thor - 25/04/2010 04:07:33 PM 987 Views
That's an interesting observation. Tom - 26/04/2010 10:23:28 PM 864 Views
Re: I was telling Tashmere... Danae al'Thor - 11/05/2010 11:05:09 AM 1006 Views
Re: What do you think the biggest message of the book is? everynametaken - 25/04/2010 10:16:16 PM 939 Views
Communication with the entirely other Camilla - 12/05/2010 10:01:37 PM 967 Views
Did anyone else do any wondering what their own visitors would take the form of if they were there? Tashmere - 26/04/2010 11:31:27 PM 871 Views
Actually, no. It was obvious to me. *NM* Tom - 26/04/2010 11:41:22 PM 426 Views
In a way yes. Jacob - 27/04/2010 06:33:43 PM 949 Views
My father, perhaps. Panorphaeon - 27/04/2010 08:55:18 PM 875 Views
Ha. Jacob - 27/04/2010 09:16:56 PM 893 Views
Re: You know, the more I think about it, the more surprised I am everyone only seemed to have one. Danae al'Thor - 10/05/2010 10:08:23 PM 932 Views
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