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Re: Again... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 19/07/2010 06:33:13 AM

Yes. Unless they were not yet hidden by the Fidelius Charm at that point. As I said, I don't have my books at hand. Does it state unequivocally that they were hidden by the charm when the letter was written?

Well, I checked, and its pretty much proved that they were indeed under the charm.

Dumbledore in the last part of DH:

You have guessed, I know, why the Cloak was in my possession
on the night your parents died. James had showed it to me just
a few days previously.


There. We know the Potters died about a week after the charm. The cloak left them a "few days" before their death. Now, it isn't certain that few days>around a week here, but it seems to be so.

Further, Lily says that Wormtail dropped by last weekend and looked down, which Harry immediately says must have been the last time he saw them, after which he betrayed them.

Plus (wow, never knew this tiny detail from book 1 could be so critical), we know that Harry was delivered to Petunia's house on a Tuesday night (When Mr. and Mrs. Durs ley woke up on the dull, grey Tuesday our story starts...). In the morning, word of the Potter's death was spreading, so the death must have been on Monday. The letter then had to have been written between the previous Sunday and the Sunday before their death. Since Lily says last weekend, rather than x number of days ago, this leads me to believe it was written between Thurday and Sunday. Either way, this is way less than one week before their death, meaning several things:

1) Since Lily says Bathilda visits often (with no indication of discontinuance), this means Bathilda must have been quite addled not to reveal that Sirius wasn't Secret Keeper.

2) Since well after the charm kicked into effect, James couldn't leave the house without the Invisibility Cloak, the theory that his family, and not his house, was the subject of the charm is completely disproved.


Because you have still not shown that they were hidden by the Charm at that point. I don't have the books here, and nothing of what you have quoted states that unequivocally.

Perhaps it might be better to hold off this discussion until we reach the relevant book.

See above. This book has suddenly become very relevant. :P


They could drop down to the post office? I thought they couldn't leave the house in your scenario.

If they left, they wouldn't be hidden. Just like outside of Grimmauld Plce, the Order isn't invisible.



See above. Also, that would be equally unproblematic if they were hidden, rather than their house. It contributes nothing to your argument if that were the case.

If they were hidden, how did they convince the people at the post office to give them anything? Or are you saying they sneaked in and took stuff?

Either way, turns out Petunia's vase was sent for Christmas, so that isn't a problem. Sirius's gift to Harry is, though. But since he was likely told by Pettigrew, maybe he could have an owl deliver?


That depends entirely on what they do for the Order. We are getting into the realm of unfounded speculation.

Oh come on! They fought Voldy four times and survived. Which means they were threatened. Which means they were seen, and which also means they moved their arses from Godric's Hollow (unless you want to claim they fought Voldemort at home 4 times). That's quite enough detail into what they did, and staying at home didn't come into it.

See, it is perfectly possible to use "destination" and "sight" figuratively. It proves nothing either way.

How was it used figuratively? He saw a building and said he had reached his destination. The meaning is quite clear and direct.



How could I read the whole paragraph when you didn't quote it until now? As I said initially, I do not have my books where I am.

Sorry, I didn't know that.


Yes. It still proves nothing, but it fits better with your version of events.

What will constitute proof for you? A statement from Voldemort that he meant the house, and four witnesses to attest to his honesty and sanity? We're discussing stuff from a novel here. All we can take is the meaning of the words in it. And it clearly states that Voldemort thought the house was his destination, and he says that since he can see it, the charm must be broken.



"Destination" could have been used on anything from the death of the child to whoknowswhat. It functions as a very wide metaphor when used figuratively.

But how is it figurative in this instance? I'm quite at a loss over your confusion here.


Because it is not conclusive. It is suggestive, but can be explained away.

Nope. See above on that. There's a plot hole here, pure and simple.


By that argument, they could have gone to Hogwarts and started killing children to force the Potters out. It is not an argument.

But Dumbledore was at Hogwarts. He wasn't at Godric's Hollow. Something being impossible at Hogwarts doesn't in any way mean it is impossible elsewhere.
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Harry Potter Re-read: The Philosopher's Stone - Final section underway! (& next book plans) - 12/07/2010 08:27:51 AM 3688 Views
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I really need a remembrall. - 14/07/2010 08:57:10 PM 1952 Views
I felt bad for Neville. - 14/07/2010 09:03:49 PM 1900 Views
Indeed. - 14/07/2010 09:05:40 PM 1784 Views
But it doesn't tell you what you've forgotten! - 15/07/2010 02:51:47 AM 2062 Views
I know, right! - 15/07/2010 06:41:01 AM 1765 Views
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Two separate things: - 15/07/2010 07:14:08 PM 1819 Views
I hear you - 15/07/2010 08:22:05 PM 1847 Views
Re: Two separate things: - 15/07/2010 08:48:21 PM 1829 Views
I can clarify some stuff for you - 15/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1902 Views
One of the most sublime, wonderful moments of any book - 15/07/2010 08:18:29 PM 1678 Views
Yes! - 15/07/2010 10:39:11 PM 1853 Views
Lovely - 15/07/2010 09:00:11 PM 1919 Views
Haha - 15/07/2010 09:16:16 PM 1991 Views
Re: Haha - 15/07/2010 09:24:06 PM 1892 Views
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Oh, we are. - 15/07/2010 09:35:17 PM 1669 Views
Ah like vodka vs. wine coolers? *NM* - 15/07/2010 09:48:26 PM 990 Views
Gin - 15/07/2010 09:49:33 PM 1781 Views
I was 16. - 15/07/2010 10:49:33 PM 1673 Views
So was I - 15/07/2010 10:54:24 PM 1712 Views
Honestly, dumbledore is a bit of an ass... - 15/07/2010 10:48:32 PM 1683 Views
Heresy! - 15/07/2010 10:55:28 PM 1706 Views
As I indicated below, I had some issues. - 16/07/2010 03:05:05 AM 1997 Views
Re: As I indicated below, I had some issues. - 16/07/2010 11:14:56 AM 1862 Views
In fairness, it's Hogwarts itself that is all but impregnable. - 26/07/2010 03:55:02 PM 1797 Views
A funny thing I noticed - 15/07/2010 09:00:42 PM 1894 Views
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Overall thoughts for the book - 12/07/2010 08:31:37 AM 1820 Views
Foreshadowing and setting up the future - 12/07/2010 08:32:10 AM 1753 Views
Harry's anger management issues? - 12/07/2010 07:14:58 PM 1822 Views
Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:40:40 PM 1853 Views
Nah, not deliberate. - 12/07/2010 09:14:20 PM 1911 Views
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Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 13/07/2010 03:02:59 PM 1773 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 13/07/2010 03:04:42 PM 1873 Views
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Re: I noticed a lot of this. - 12/07/2010 07:45:32 PM 1854 Views
~smug~ - 13/07/2010 02:09:15 PM 1836 Views
Indeed. - 13/07/2010 02:10:41 PM 2076 Views
This response implies the experience of being both?? - 13/07/2010 03:23:29 PM 1823 Views
On Ginny: - 12/07/2010 10:36:47 PM 1951 Views
So much (chapters 1-3) *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:35:57 PM 2075 Views
Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:38:05 PM 1899 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:39:08 PM 1910 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:39:53 PM 1718 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:44:16 PM 1631 Views
Re: Hm. - 13/07/2010 04:41:12 AM 1730 Views
Re: Hm. - 13/07/2010 08:55:09 AM 1761 Views
I missed the school roof thing this time around too! Good catch there. *NM* - 12/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 1017 Views
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Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 10:30:23 PM 1861 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 10:55:01 PM 1791 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 11:05:59 PM 1828 Views
I can answer your consistency question! - 15/07/2010 02:35:42 AM 1960 Views
You are a clever cookie. - 15/07/2010 08:14:25 AM 1805 Views
Yes - 15/07/2010 03:30:36 PM 1651 Views
Ooh, yes. - 16/07/2010 12:19:13 AM 1660 Views
More stuff (chapters 12-17) - 15/07/2010 08:55:34 PM 1690 Views
Re: More stuff (chapters 12-17) - 15/07/2010 09:19:13 PM 1793 Views
Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 04:23:15 PM 1901 Views
Re: Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 04:28:04 PM 1805 Views
Re: Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 07:12:39 PM 2057 Views
I like it. Thank you. - 20/07/2010 12:53:37 AM 1989 Views
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Kid? - 14/07/2010 02:01:30 PM 1930 Views
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It's a simple, well-done little book. - 12/07/2010 07:46:48 PM 1913 Views
you don't read instructions, do you? - 12/07/2010 07:49:24 PM 1959 Views
Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:50:23 PM 1896 Views
Re: Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:51:40 PM 1903 Views
Awwww! - 12/07/2010 07:52:19 PM 1846 Views
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Wha? - 12/07/2010 07:50:44 PM 1954 Views
Re: Wha? - 12/07/2010 07:52:21 PM 1924 Views
Pff. - 12/07/2010 07:54:54 PM 1926 Views
*NM* - 12/07/2010 07:56:03 PM 1192 Views
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I was 10. - 13/07/2010 04:13:44 AM 1996 Views
I was 16. - 13/07/2010 08:24:02 AM 1919 Views
1999 - 13/07/2010 09:03:03 AM 1914 Views
What do you mean by adult version? - 13/07/2010 02:15:40 PM 2047 Views
Re: What do you mean by adult version? - 13/07/2010 02:17:40 PM 1917 Views
Just before the first movie came out - 13/07/2010 02:17:42 PM 2072 Views
When Prisoner of Azkaban was a hardback. - 13/07/2010 02:23:57 PM 1932 Views
Just after Goblet of Fire was published. - 13/07/2010 11:50:38 PM 2001 Views
Just before Goblet of Fire came out. - 14/07/2010 04:04:21 AM 1956 Views
The first five were out, waited for HBP. - 14/07/2010 06:20:39 AM 2063 Views
You're making me want to talk about toadface - 14/07/2010 02:06:25 PM 1959 Views
Sorry! - 15/07/2010 06:36:11 AM 2028 Views
I held out quite awhile because I don't like "fads" - 14/07/2010 02:04:37 PM 1895 Views
Lol! - 14/07/2010 08:54:47 PM 1991 Views
I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 06:39:16 AM 1996 Views
Re: I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 10:01:04 AM 2157 Views
Re: I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 05:44:28 PM 2072 Views
I would have, if I had known there was hype. I know I would have. - 15/07/2010 03:28:50 PM 2069 Views
- 15/07/2010 05:47:01 PM 2070 Views
I think I was first! - 23/07/2010 07:05:08 PM 1996 Views
Aged 13 or 14 - a while before the first movie (which was Christmas 2001). *NM* - 26/07/2010 04:13:55 PM 1210 Views
Jesus Christ. - 26/07/2010 05:04:46 PM 2149 Views
^That was me. *NM* - 26/07/2010 09:55:49 PM 1184 Views
I was going to ask if it was. *NM* - 26/07/2010 10:04:59 PM 1166 Views
Suggestions for the Re-read - 12/07/2010 08:33:25 AM 1949 Views
I like it so far - 13/07/2010 10:16:49 AM 1929 Views
I can try that for the next book. - 13/07/2010 11:21:01 PM 1928 Views
Can we get chapter discussions everyday? *NM* - 15/07/2010 06:40:30 PM 1142 Views
Inconsistencies Re: the Potter's death... - 15/07/2010 05:16:45 AM 2292 Views
Because they were tricked? They considered Peter and Sirius to be brothers. - 15/07/2010 07:05:27 AM 1931 Views
That's nonsense.. - 16/07/2010 01:08:40 AM 1872 Views
Take it up with Rowling, since you don't believe me. *NM* - 16/07/2010 08:19:58 AM 1085 Views
What's there to believe? - 18/07/2010 06:03:13 AM 1948 Views
Re: That's nonsense.. - 16/07/2010 09:37:59 AM 2065 Views
Also - 16/07/2010 11:17:51 AM 2286 Views
You are correct! There is no inconsistency - 17/07/2010 04:17:35 AM 1989 Views
Huh? - 18/07/2010 05:57:58 AM 1855 Views
But Camilla explained it! - 18/07/2010 09:27:55 AM 2181 Views
Correction - 18/07/2010 10:58:59 AM 1989 Views
I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 05:42:18 PM 1879 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 05:51:36 PM 1889 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 06:17:04 PM 2189 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 06:28:27 PM 1888 Views
That bothers me too. - 18/07/2010 07:17:14 PM 1962 Views
Re: That bothers me too. - 18/07/2010 07:20:44 PM 1829 Views
Yet... - 18/07/2010 07:47:56 PM 1900 Views
Re: Yet... - 18/07/2010 08:02:31 PM 1931 Views
To quote Dumbledore... - 19/07/2010 05:57:23 AM 1825 Views
Again... - 18/07/2010 07:35:10 PM 2133 Views
Re: Again... - 18/07/2010 08:00:55 PM 1918 Views
Re: Again... - 19/07/2010 06:33:13 AM 2117 Views
Re: Again... - 20/07/2010 04:45:16 PM 1929 Views
Yet another load of bosh. - 21/07/2010 01:00:14 AM 1923 Views
Then let's leave it. - 21/07/2010 06:48:45 AM 2044 Views
Re: Then let's leave it. - 21/07/2010 04:19:35 PM 1931 Views
My two cents - 19/07/2010 06:11:30 AM 2004 Views
It was just the sort of things these two daredevils would do... - 14/09/2010 12:11:20 AM 2401 Views
Re: It was just the sort of things these two daredevils would do... - 14/09/2010 09:20:46 AM 1830 Views
You have to wonder if that's actually true. - 26/07/2010 04:23:31 PM 1900 Views
Re: You have to wonder if that's actually true. - 26/07/2010 05:06:43 PM 2120 Views
I don't know that I'd call it "see through Pettigrew"... - 26/07/2010 06:22:19 PM 1881 Views
^That was me, too. Oh, dear. - 26/07/2010 09:56:43 PM 2107 Views
Since Lily and James were unable to leave the house - 18/07/2010 07:14:21 PM 1892 Views
Re: Since Lily and James were unable to leave the house - 26/07/2010 05:07:48 PM 2334 Views
^ And this, too, was me. - 26/07/2010 09:58:07 PM 1924 Views
Re: ^ And this, too, was me. - 26/07/2010 10:05:41 PM 1847 Views
- 26/07/2010 10:07:36 PM 1741 Views

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