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Re: Again... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 19/07/2010 06:33:13 AM

Yes. Unless they were not yet hidden by the Fidelius Charm at that point. As I said, I don't have my books at hand. Does it state unequivocally that they were hidden by the charm when the letter was written?

Well, I checked, and its pretty much proved that they were indeed under the charm.

Dumbledore in the last part of DH:

You have guessed, I know, why the Cloak was in my possession
on the night your parents died. James had showed it to me just
a few days previously.


There. We know the Potters died about a week after the charm. The cloak left them a "few days" before their death. Now, it isn't certain that few days>around a week here, but it seems to be so.

Further, Lily says that Wormtail dropped by last weekend and looked down, which Harry immediately says must have been the last time he saw them, after which he betrayed them.

Plus (wow, never knew this tiny detail from book 1 could be so critical), we know that Harry was delivered to Petunia's house on a Tuesday night (When Mr. and Mrs. Durs ley woke up on the dull, grey Tuesday our story starts...). In the morning, word of the Potter's death was spreading, so the death must have been on Monday. The letter then had to have been written between the previous Sunday and the Sunday before their death. Since Lily says last weekend, rather than x number of days ago, this leads me to believe it was written between Thurday and Sunday. Either way, this is way less than one week before their death, meaning several things:

1) Since Lily says Bathilda visits often (with no indication of discontinuance), this means Bathilda must have been quite addled not to reveal that Sirius wasn't Secret Keeper.

2) Since well after the charm kicked into effect, James couldn't leave the house without the Invisibility Cloak, the theory that his family, and not his house, was the subject of the charm is completely disproved.


Because you have still not shown that they were hidden by the Charm at that point. I don't have the books here, and nothing of what you have quoted states that unequivocally.

Perhaps it might be better to hold off this discussion until we reach the relevant book.

See above. This book has suddenly become very relevant. :P


They could drop down to the post office? I thought they couldn't leave the house in your scenario.

If they left, they wouldn't be hidden. Just like outside of Grimmauld Plce, the Order isn't invisible.



See above. Also, that would be equally unproblematic if they were hidden, rather than their house. It contributes nothing to your argument if that were the case.

If they were hidden, how did they convince the people at the post office to give them anything? Or are you saying they sneaked in and took stuff?

Either way, turns out Petunia's vase was sent for Christmas, so that isn't a problem. Sirius's gift to Harry is, though. But since he was likely told by Pettigrew, maybe he could have an owl deliver?


That depends entirely on what they do for the Order. We are getting into the realm of unfounded speculation.

Oh come on! They fought Voldy four times and survived. Which means they were threatened. Which means they were seen, and which also means they moved their arses from Godric's Hollow (unless you want to claim they fought Voldemort at home 4 times). That's quite enough detail into what they did, and staying at home didn't come into it.

See, it is perfectly possible to use "destination" and "sight" figuratively. It proves nothing either way.

How was it used figuratively? He saw a building and said he had reached his destination. The meaning is quite clear and direct.



How could I read the whole paragraph when you didn't quote it until now? As I said initially, I do not have my books where I am.

Sorry, I didn't know that.


Yes. It still proves nothing, but it fits better with your version of events.

What will constitute proof for you? A statement from Voldemort that he meant the house, and four witnesses to attest to his honesty and sanity? We're discussing stuff from a novel here. All we can take is the meaning of the words in it. And it clearly states that Voldemort thought the house was his destination, and he says that since he can see it, the charm must be broken.



"Destination" could have been used on anything from the death of the child to whoknowswhat. It functions as a very wide metaphor when used figuratively.

But how is it figurative in this instance? I'm quite at a loss over your confusion here.


Because it is not conclusive. It is suggestive, but can be explained away.

Nope. See above on that. There's a plot hole here, pure and simple.


By that argument, they could have gone to Hogwarts and started killing children to force the Potters out. It is not an argument.

But Dumbledore was at Hogwarts. He wasn't at Godric's Hollow. Something being impossible at Hogwarts doesn't in any way mean it is impossible elsewhere.
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There was one powerful protection - 15/07/2010 01:29:49 AM 1532 Views
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I really need a remembrall. - 14/07/2010 08:57:10 PM 1460 Views
I felt bad for Neville. - 14/07/2010 09:03:49 PM 1509 Views
Indeed. - 14/07/2010 09:05:40 PM 1379 Views
But it doesn't tell you what you've forgotten! - 15/07/2010 02:51:47 AM 1633 Views
I know, right! - 15/07/2010 06:41:01 AM 1348 Views
Exactly. - 15/07/2010 03:22:18 PM 1277 Views
Re: But it doesn't tell you what you've forgotten! - 15/07/2010 08:15:55 AM 1348 Views
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What'd you think of the ending? *NM* - 15/07/2010 05:21:38 PM 772 Views
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Two separate things: - 15/07/2010 07:14:08 PM 1399 Views
I hear you - 15/07/2010 08:22:05 PM 1423 Views
Re: Two separate things: - 15/07/2010 08:48:21 PM 1415 Views
I can clarify some stuff for you - 15/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1440 Views
One of the most sublime, wonderful moments of any book - 15/07/2010 08:18:29 PM 1274 Views
Yes! - 15/07/2010 10:39:11 PM 1456 Views
Lovely - 15/07/2010 09:00:11 PM 1481 Views
Haha - 15/07/2010 09:16:16 PM 1570 Views
Re: Haha - 15/07/2010 09:24:06 PM 1459 Views
But I thought all girls were made of sugar and spice and everything nice? - 15/07/2010 09:26:53 PM 1364 Views
Oh, we are. - 15/07/2010 09:35:17 PM 1268 Views
Ah like vodka vs. wine coolers? *NM* - 15/07/2010 09:48:26 PM 770 Views
Gin - 15/07/2010 09:49:33 PM 1391 Views
I was 16. - 15/07/2010 10:49:33 PM 1268 Views
So was I - 15/07/2010 10:54:24 PM 1313 Views
Honestly, dumbledore is a bit of an ass... - 15/07/2010 10:48:32 PM 1265 Views
Heresy! - 15/07/2010 10:55:28 PM 1321 Views
As I indicated below, I had some issues. - 16/07/2010 03:05:05 AM 1579 Views
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In fairness, it's Hogwarts itself that is all but impregnable. - 26/07/2010 03:55:02 PM 1386 Views
A funny thing I noticed - 15/07/2010 09:00:42 PM 1487 Views
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Overall thoughts for the book - 12/07/2010 08:31:37 AM 1432 Views
Foreshadowing and setting up the future - 12/07/2010 08:32:10 AM 1352 Views
Harry's anger management issues? - 12/07/2010 07:14:58 PM 1424 Views
Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:40:40 PM 1468 Views
Nah, not deliberate. - 12/07/2010 09:14:20 PM 1522 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 12/07/2010 09:55:32 PM 1433 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 13/07/2010 03:02:59 PM 1366 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 13/07/2010 03:04:42 PM 1495 Views
I noticed a lot of this. - 12/07/2010 07:22:54 PM 1544 Views
Re: I noticed a lot of this. - 12/07/2010 07:39:25 PM 1478 Views
Re: I noticed a lot of this. - 12/07/2010 07:45:32 PM 1466 Views
~smug~ - 13/07/2010 02:09:15 PM 1440 Views
Indeed. - 13/07/2010 02:10:41 PM 1675 Views
This response implies the experience of being both?? - 13/07/2010 03:23:29 PM 1412 Views
On Ginny: - 12/07/2010 10:36:47 PM 1488 Views
So much (chapters 1-3) *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:35:57 PM 1640 Views
Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:38:05 PM 1460 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:39:08 PM 1534 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:39:53 PM 1346 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:44:16 PM 1248 Views
Re: Hm. - 13/07/2010 04:41:12 AM 1359 Views
Re: Hm. - 13/07/2010 08:55:09 AM 1317 Views
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Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 09:18:35 PM 1618 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 10:30:23 PM 1420 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 10:55:01 PM 1385 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 11:05:59 PM 1414 Views
I can answer your consistency question! - 15/07/2010 02:35:42 AM 1545 Views
You are a clever cookie. - 15/07/2010 08:14:25 AM 1421 Views
Yes - 15/07/2010 03:30:36 PM 1276 Views
Ooh, yes. - 16/07/2010 12:19:13 AM 1249 Views
More stuff (chapters 12-17) - 15/07/2010 08:55:34 PM 1301 Views
Re: More stuff (chapters 12-17) - 15/07/2010 09:19:13 PM 1381 Views
Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 04:23:15 PM 1537 Views
Re: Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 04:28:04 PM 1413 Views
Re: Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 07:12:39 PM 1669 Views
I like it. Thank you. - 20/07/2010 12:53:37 AM 1580 Views
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I have no idea *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:47:58 PM 1577 Views
I agree... - 12/07/2010 09:19:59 PM 1605 Views
It has tons of things in it that every kid dreams of doing - 14/07/2010 01:56:05 PM 1528 Views
Kid? - 14/07/2010 02:01:30 PM 1543 Views
so do I. I was just trying to act mature *NM* - 14/07/2010 02:08:01 PM 979 Views
Not even just the super stuff Deadsy mentions. - 14/07/2010 04:38:46 PM 1650 Views
It's a simple, well-done little book. - 12/07/2010 07:46:48 PM 1522 Views
you don't read instructions, do you? - 12/07/2010 07:49:24 PM 1551 Views
Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:50:23 PM 1509 Views
Re: Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:51:40 PM 1514 Views
Awwww! - 12/07/2010 07:52:19 PM 1402 Views
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Wha? - 12/07/2010 07:50:44 PM 1544 Views
Re: Wha? - 12/07/2010 07:52:21 PM 1551 Views
Pff. - 12/07/2010 07:54:54 PM 1534 Views
*NM* - 12/07/2010 07:56:03 PM 983 Views
When did you pick up this book? - 12/07/2010 11:30:46 PM 1449 Views
I was 10. - 13/07/2010 04:13:44 AM 1603 Views
I was 16. - 13/07/2010 08:24:02 AM 1528 Views
1999 - 13/07/2010 09:03:03 AM 1524 Views
What do you mean by adult version? - 13/07/2010 02:15:40 PM 1626 Views
Re: What do you mean by adult version? - 13/07/2010 02:17:40 PM 1504 Views
Just before the first movie came out - 13/07/2010 02:17:42 PM 1672 Views
When Prisoner of Azkaban was a hardback. - 13/07/2010 02:23:57 PM 1521 Views
Just after Goblet of Fire was published. - 13/07/2010 11:50:38 PM 1586 Views
Just before Goblet of Fire came out. - 14/07/2010 04:04:21 AM 1555 Views
The first five were out, waited for HBP. - 14/07/2010 06:20:39 AM 1648 Views
You're making me want to talk about toadface - 14/07/2010 02:06:25 PM 1577 Views
Sorry! - 15/07/2010 06:36:11 AM 1598 Views
I held out quite awhile because I don't like "fads" - 14/07/2010 02:04:37 PM 1497 Views
Lol! - 14/07/2010 08:54:47 PM 1604 Views
I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 06:39:16 AM 1590 Views
Re: I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 10:01:04 AM 1776 Views
Re: I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 05:44:28 PM 1647 Views
I would have, if I had known there was hype. I know I would have. - 15/07/2010 03:28:50 PM 1611 Views
- 15/07/2010 05:47:01 PM 1672 Views
I think I was first! - 23/07/2010 07:05:08 PM 1612 Views
Aged 13 or 14 - a while before the first movie (which was Christmas 2001). *NM* - 26/07/2010 04:13:55 PM 951 Views
Jesus Christ. - 26/07/2010 05:04:46 PM 1622 Views
^That was me. *NM* - 26/07/2010 09:55:49 PM 944 Views
I was going to ask if it was. *NM* - 26/07/2010 10:04:59 PM 930 Views
Suggestions for the Re-read - 12/07/2010 08:33:25 AM 1553 Views
I like it so far - 13/07/2010 10:16:49 AM 1559 Views
I can try that for the next book. - 13/07/2010 11:21:01 PM 1542 Views
Can we get chapter discussions everyday? *NM* - 15/07/2010 06:40:30 PM 919 Views
Inconsistencies Re: the Potter's death... - 15/07/2010 05:16:45 AM 1875 Views
Because they were tricked? They considered Peter and Sirius to be brothers. - 15/07/2010 07:05:27 AM 1531 Views
That's nonsense.. - 16/07/2010 01:08:40 AM 1446 Views
Take it up with Rowling, since you don't believe me. *NM* - 16/07/2010 08:19:58 AM 866 Views
What's there to believe? - 18/07/2010 06:03:13 AM 1541 Views
Re: That's nonsense.. - 16/07/2010 09:37:59 AM 1662 Views
Also - 16/07/2010 11:17:51 AM 1892 Views
You are correct! There is no inconsistency - 17/07/2010 04:17:35 AM 1575 Views
Huh? - 18/07/2010 05:57:58 AM 1463 Views
But Camilla explained it! - 18/07/2010 09:27:55 AM 1773 Views
Correction - 18/07/2010 10:58:59 AM 1567 Views
I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 05:42:18 PM 1475 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 05:51:36 PM 1491 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 06:17:04 PM 1793 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 06:28:27 PM 1491 Views
That bothers me too. - 18/07/2010 07:17:14 PM 1558 Views
Re: That bothers me too. - 18/07/2010 07:20:44 PM 1408 Views
Yet... - 18/07/2010 07:47:56 PM 1482 Views
Re: Yet... - 18/07/2010 08:02:31 PM 1534 Views
To quote Dumbledore... - 19/07/2010 05:57:23 AM 1435 Views
Again... - 18/07/2010 07:35:10 PM 1721 Views
Re: Again... - 18/07/2010 08:00:55 PM 1513 Views
Re: Again... - 19/07/2010 06:33:13 AM 1712 Views
Re: Again... - 20/07/2010 04:45:16 PM 1520 Views
Yet another load of bosh. - 21/07/2010 01:00:14 AM 1514 Views
Then let's leave it. - 21/07/2010 06:48:45 AM 1609 Views
Re: Then let's leave it. - 21/07/2010 04:19:35 PM 1531 Views
My two cents - 19/07/2010 06:11:30 AM 1579 Views
It was just the sort of things these two daredevils would do... - 14/09/2010 12:11:20 AM 1962 Views
Re: It was just the sort of things these two daredevils would do... - 14/09/2010 09:20:46 AM 1421 Views
You have to wonder if that's actually true. - 26/07/2010 04:23:31 PM 1505 Views
Re: You have to wonder if that's actually true. - 26/07/2010 05:06:43 PM 1606 Views
I don't know that I'd call it "see through Pettigrew"... - 26/07/2010 06:22:19 PM 1518 Views
^That was me, too. Oh, dear. - 26/07/2010 09:56:43 PM 1695 Views
Since Lily and James were unable to leave the house - 18/07/2010 07:14:21 PM 1468 Views
Re: Since Lily and James were unable to leave the house - 26/07/2010 05:07:48 PM 1811 Views
^ And this, too, was me. - 26/07/2010 09:58:07 PM 1532 Views
Re: ^ And this, too, was me. - 26/07/2010 10:05:41 PM 1464 Views
- 26/07/2010 10:07:36 PM 1345 Views

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