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Then let's leave it. Camilla Send a noteboard - 21/07/2010 06:48:45 AM
All you've done is waffle on about language not being math and novels not being exact. I've presented many pieces of evidence that support my view, and all you've done is refute them with nonsense like this.


Your "pieces of evidence" are precisely the reason why I started replying to you. They keep contradicting themselves. I wanted to point that out to you.

I'd like to see one single quote from the books that you employed to support your point.


I don't have a "point". I have no stake in this discussion. I am not trying to prove one side. I was trying to see if you could.

You have given a lot of examples which suggest you are right (the main evidence being the quote from Voldemort's pov, which, as I said, is very suggestive of the interpretation you argue for), but no conclusive "proof", despite claiming to. That was my point.

If you haven't read the books recently, and are not even sure you have something to say, on what grounds did you start arguing the point? Is it just a case of, "I don't know what I know, but I'm certain you're wrong"?


I never said I was certain you were wrong. Quite the contrary. From the beginning I made it very clear that I am not sure which explanation fits the best. You, on the other hand, expressed yourself in such clear cut terms of "proof" and "fact", which made me want to know what exactly you were basing it on. "Indications" are not "proof".
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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Harry Potter Re-read: The Philosopher's Stone - Final section underway! (& next book plans) Rebekah - 12/07/2010 08:27:51 AM 3862 Views
Chapters 1-3: Introducing Harry Rebekah - 12/07/2010 08:28:49 AM 2090 Views
Characterisation *NM* Rebekah - 12/07/2010 08:29:02 AM 1205 Views
My thoughts, such as they are. Rebekah - 12/07/2010 04:09:55 PM 2195 Views
Agree. She gave us enough to make it interesting. StormCrow - 12/07/2010 06:45:46 PM 2128 Views
Re: My thoughts, such as they are. *spoilers* Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:43:49 PM 2139 Views
You hit the nail on the head. Seriana Sedai - 13/07/2010 12:20:19 AM 2022 Views
Re: You hit the nail on the head. Camilla - 13/07/2010 08:51:45 AM 1989 Views
Writing style *NM* Rebekah - 12/07/2010 08:29:18 AM 1180 Views
A couple of points. Rebekah - 12/07/2010 04:10:20 PM 1956 Views
It is very clear it is a children's book at this time Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:18:14 PM 2175 Views
True. Rebekah - 12/07/2010 07:36:49 PM 2115 Views
Re: It is very clear it is a children's book at this time Tor - 12/07/2010 09:31:11 PM 2317 Views
Re: It is very clear it is a children's book at this time Camilla - 12/07/2010 09:51:23 PM 1914 Views
Vernon's slow descent into madness is great. Darth_Katie - 13/07/2010 04:03:26 AM 2169 Views
Re: Vernon's slow descent into madness is great. Camilla - 13/07/2010 08:54:40 AM 2104 Views
Re: Vernon's slow descent into madness is great. Darth_Katie - 13/07/2010 01:14:01 PM 2172 Views
Indeed. Camilla - 13/07/2010 01:15:23 PM 1955 Views
Early themes *NM* Rebekah - 12/07/2010 08:29:37 AM 1271 Views
Strong vs weak *spoilers* Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:23:45 PM 1943 Views
Rebekah - 12/07/2010 07:43:27 PM 1986 Views
Re: Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:44:56 PM 1949 Views
Chapters 4-10: Making Friends at Hogwarts *NM* Rebekah - 12/07/2010 08:29:58 AM 1118 Views
Impressions: thoughts about the school, the teachers, the enemies and the friends. *NM* Rebekah - 14/07/2010 08:29:38 AM 1153 Views
I'd forgotten how annoying Hermione was Deadsy - 14/07/2010 01:48:13 PM 2016 Views
Me too. nossy - 14/07/2010 04:30:13 PM 1936 Views
Yep. I like seeing her transformation in this story though. StormCrow - 14/07/2010 04:58:04 PM 1980 Views
Re: Yep. I like seeing her transformation in this story though. Camilla - 14/07/2010 06:13:13 PM 2018 Views
Yes and, I think, this may be another candidate for early themes (from above) StormCrow - 14/07/2010 07:43:14 PM 2128 Views
Re: Impressions: thoughts about the school, the teachers, the enemies and the friends. aria - 14/07/2010 04:22:54 PM 2146 Views
Agree. I loved the instant tension between Harry and Malfoy and with Harry and Snape too. StormCrow - 14/07/2010 05:03:20 PM 2289 Views
Some thoughts before I run off to the library again Camilla - 14/07/2010 06:11:45 PM 2225 Views
Good points aria - 14/07/2010 08:45:56 PM 2112 Views
It's interesting to look at the beginning of the story from Draco's point of view. Legolas - 26/07/2010 03:08:38 PM 2351 Views
Re: It's interesting to look at the beginning of the story from Draco's point of view. Camilla - 26/07/2010 03:18:02 PM 1979 Views
What about the magic? Rebekah - 14/07/2010 08:58:51 AM 1983 Views
The magic wasnt really developed at this point Dark Knight - 14/07/2010 02:13:41 PM 1918 Views
Re: The magic wasnt really developed at this point Camilla - 14/07/2010 08:53:08 PM 2153 Views
There was one powerful protection Dark Knight - 15/07/2010 01:29:49 AM 2108 Views
I agree aria - 15/07/2010 04:51:05 AM 2119 Views
Re: I agree Dark Knight - 15/07/2010 05:44:41 AM 1965 Views
Re: There was one powerful protection Camilla - 15/07/2010 08:12:40 AM 2272 Views
I think nossy - 14/07/2010 04:34:30 PM 1916 Views
Diagon Alley - Olivander's Foreshadowing StormCrow - 14/07/2010 05:11:40 PM 2210 Views
Re: Diagon Alley - Olivander's Foreshadowing aria - 14/07/2010 08:51:06 PM 1911 Views
Agreed. StormCrow - 14/07/2010 08:57:55 PM 1964 Views
I really need a remembrall. Camilla - 14/07/2010 08:57:10 PM 2108 Views
I felt bad for Neville. StormCrow - 14/07/2010 09:03:49 PM 2055 Views
Indeed. Camilla - 14/07/2010 09:05:40 PM 1934 Views
But it doesn't tell you what you've forgotten! nossy - 15/07/2010 02:51:47 AM 2205 Views
I know, right! Seriana Sedai - 15/07/2010 06:41:01 AM 1936 Views
Exactly. nossy - 15/07/2010 03:22:18 PM 1877 Views
Re: But it doesn't tell you what you've forgotten! Camilla - 15/07/2010 08:15:55 AM 1985 Views
Ah, see nossy - 15/07/2010 03:23:49 PM 1897 Views
Chapters 11-17: Harry the Hero *NM* Rebekah - 12/07/2010 08:30:29 AM 1143 Views
What'd you think of the ending? *NM* Rebekah - 15/07/2010 05:21:38 PM 1102 Views
Loved it. StormCrow - 15/07/2010 05:56:06 PM 1979 Views
Two separate things: nossy - 15/07/2010 07:14:08 PM 1970 Views
I hear you Dark Knight - 15/07/2010 08:22:05 PM 2010 Views
Re: Two separate things: Camilla - 15/07/2010 08:48:21 PM 1996 Views
I can clarify some stuff for you Dark Knight - 15/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 2075 Views
One of the most sublime, wonderful moments of any book Dark Knight - 15/07/2010 08:18:29 PM 1848 Views
Yes! Seriana Sedai - 15/07/2010 10:39:11 PM 2001 Views
Lovely Camilla - 15/07/2010 09:00:11 PM 2095 Views
Haha Dark Knight - 15/07/2010 09:16:16 PM 2168 Views
Re: Haha Camilla - 15/07/2010 09:24:06 PM 2085 Views
But I thought all girls were made of sugar and spice and everything nice? Dark Knight - 15/07/2010 09:26:53 PM 1923 Views
Oh, we are. Camilla - 15/07/2010 09:35:17 PM 1851 Views
Ah like vodka vs. wine coolers? *NM* Dark Knight - 15/07/2010 09:48:26 PM 1097 Views
Gin Camilla - 15/07/2010 09:49:33 PM 1965 Views
I was 16. Rebekah - 15/07/2010 10:49:33 PM 1834 Views
So was I Camilla - 15/07/2010 10:54:24 PM 1868 Views
Honestly, dumbledore is a bit of an ass... jh - 15/07/2010 10:48:32 PM 1852 Views
Heresy! Camilla - 15/07/2010 10:55:28 PM 1862 Views
The decades of manipulation of a child doesn't bother you, but the House Cup does? *NM* Ghavrel - 15/07/2010 11:37:54 PM 1062 Views
Not really. I am looking at it from a school perspective. jh - 16/07/2010 12:54:46 PM 1770 Views
As I indicated below, I had some issues. Nate - 16/07/2010 03:05:05 AM 2183 Views
Re: As I indicated below, I had some issues. Camilla - 16/07/2010 11:14:56 AM 2055 Views
In fairness, it's Hogwarts itself that is all but impregnable. Legolas - 26/07/2010 03:55:02 PM 1984 Views
A funny thing I noticed Camilla - 15/07/2010 09:00:42 PM 2083 Views
nossy - 15/07/2010 09:18:08 PM 1918 Views
Overall thoughts for the book Rebekah - 12/07/2010 08:31:37 AM 1970 Views
Foreshadowing and setting up the future Rebekah - 12/07/2010 08:32:10 AM 1902 Views
Harry's anger management issues? StormCrow - 12/07/2010 07:14:58 PM 1989 Views
Heh. Rebekah - 12/07/2010 07:40:40 PM 2007 Views
Nah, not deliberate. StormCrow - 12/07/2010 09:14:20 PM 2067 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. Camilla - 12/07/2010 09:55:32 PM 2001 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. StormCrow - 13/07/2010 03:02:59 PM 1939 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. Camilla - 13/07/2010 03:04:42 PM 2043 Views
I noticed a lot of this. Nate - 12/07/2010 07:22:54 PM 2111 Views
Re: I noticed a lot of this. Rebekah - 12/07/2010 07:39:25 PM 2042 Views
Re: I noticed a lot of this. Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:45:32 PM 2017 Views
~smug~ Elaine - 13/07/2010 02:09:15 PM 1987 Views
Indeed. Camilla - 13/07/2010 02:10:41 PM 2244 Views
This response implies the experience of being both?? StormCrow - 13/07/2010 03:23:29 PM 1987 Views
On Ginny: Kronin al'Sulc - 12/07/2010 10:36:47 PM 2133 Views
This was my interpretation too and why I didn't pay much attention to it at the time. *NM* StormCrow - 13/07/2010 02:53:08 PM 1024 Views
I've noticed a lot of the same things, probably because I've reread this book so many times... Cockatiel of Doom - 13/07/2010 04:45:28 AM 2259 Views
Re: I've noticed a lot of the same things, probably because I've reread this book so many times... Camilla - 13/07/2010 08:58:10 AM 1995 Views
So much (chapters 1-3) *spoilers* Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:35:57 PM 2240 Views
Hm. Rebekah - 12/07/2010 07:38:05 PM 2073 Views
Re: Hm. Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:39:08 PM 2067 Views
Re: Hm. Rebekah - 12/07/2010 07:39:53 PM 1879 Views
Re: Hm. Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:44:16 PM 1790 Views
Re: Hm. Cockatiel of Doom - 13/07/2010 04:41:12 AM 1886 Views
Re: Hm. Camilla - 13/07/2010 08:55:09 AM 1960 Views
I missed the school roof thing this time around too! Good catch there. *NM* StormCrow - 12/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 1141 Views
The thing that tipped me off Camilla - 12/07/2010 09:53:01 PM 1989 Views
Imagine how easy his test would have been if he remembered he'd done it as a child! *NM* StormCrow - 13/07/2010 03:20:27 PM 1114 Views
You have to wonder why Hagrid and Dumbledore didn't suspect the truth about Sirius. Legolas - 26/07/2010 04:04:05 PM 1937 Views
I re-read a couple weeks ago, and I was highly amused by all the little things she worked in nossy - 14/07/2010 04:09:19 AM 2070 Views
Some stuff (chapters 4-11) Camilla - 14/07/2010 09:18:35 PM 2191 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) Deadsy - 14/07/2010 10:30:23 PM 2024 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) Camilla - 14/07/2010 10:55:01 PM 1982 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) Deadsy - 14/07/2010 11:05:59 PM 2005 Views
I can answer your consistency question! Cockatiel of Doom - 15/07/2010 02:35:42 AM 2142 Views
You are a clever cookie. Camilla - 15/07/2010 08:14:25 AM 1988 Views
Yes nossy - 15/07/2010 03:30:36 PM 1816 Views
Ooh, yes. Cockatiel of Doom - 16/07/2010 12:19:13 AM 1830 Views
More stuff (chapters 12-17) Camilla - 15/07/2010 08:55:34 PM 1856 Views
Re: More stuff (chapters 12-17) Dark Knight - 15/07/2010 09:19:13 PM 1993 Views
Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 Cockatiel of Doom - 17/07/2010 04:23:15 PM 2065 Views
Re: Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 Camilla - 17/07/2010 04:28:04 PM 1968 Views
Re: Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 aria - 17/07/2010 07:12:39 PM 2219 Views
I like it. Thank you. Cockatiel of Doom - 20/07/2010 12:53:37 AM 2179 Views
What made this book (and the rest of the series) such a success? Rebekah - 12/07/2010 08:33:00 AM 2097 Views
I have no idea *spoilers* Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:47:58 PM 2172 Views
I agree... StormCrow - 12/07/2010 09:19:59 PM 2154 Views
I think it was mostly because it was a simple narrative with an identifiable protagnonist. Chas - 13/07/2010 11:59:06 PM 2046 Views
It has tons of things in it that every kid dreams of doing Deadsy - 14/07/2010 01:56:05 PM 2091 Views
Kid? Camilla - 14/07/2010 02:01:30 PM 2076 Views
so do I. I was just trying to act mature *NM* Deadsy - 14/07/2010 02:08:01 PM 1274 Views
Not even just the super stuff Deadsy mentions. nossy - 14/07/2010 04:38:46 PM 2207 Views
It's a simple, well-done little book. Nate - 12/07/2010 07:46:48 PM 2136 Views
you don't read instructions, do you? Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:49:24 PM 2133 Views
Heh. Rebekah - 12/07/2010 07:50:23 PM 2062 Views
Re: Heh. Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:51:40 PM 2061 Views
Awwww! Rebekah - 12/07/2010 07:52:19 PM 2030 Views
Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:52:52 PM 2108 Views
Wha? Nate - 12/07/2010 07:50:44 PM 2137 Views
Re: Wha? Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:52:21 PM 2081 Views
Pff. Nate - 12/07/2010 07:54:54 PM 2071 Views
*NM* Camilla - 12/07/2010 07:56:03 PM 1287 Views
When did you pick up this book? Dark Knight - 12/07/2010 11:30:46 PM 2005 Views
I was 10. Darth_Katie - 13/07/2010 04:13:44 AM 2153 Views
Ah book orders...man you just brought back nostalgic memories. I miss being a kid Dark Knight - 13/07/2010 04:42:12 AM 2213 Views
I was 16. Rebekah - 13/07/2010 08:24:02 AM 2084 Views
1999 Camilla - 13/07/2010 09:03:03 AM 2071 Views
What do you mean by adult version? aria - 13/07/2010 02:15:40 PM 2200 Views
Re: What do you mean by adult version? Camilla - 13/07/2010 02:17:40 PM 2071 Views
They started publishing copies with 'adult' covers so people wouldn't be caught out reading Chas - 13/07/2010 11:53:46 PM 2117 Views
Just before the first movie came out aria - 13/07/2010 02:17:42 PM 2232 Views
When Prisoner of Azkaban was a hardback. Elaine - 13/07/2010 02:23:57 PM 2103 Views
Got a boxed set for Christmas when Order of the Phoenix came out in hardback. StormCrow - 13/07/2010 03:06:42 PM 2135 Views
Just after Goblet of Fire was published. Chas - 13/07/2010 11:50:38 PM 2161 Views
Just before Goblet of Fire came out. nossy - 14/07/2010 04:04:21 AM 2099 Views
The first five were out, waited for HBP. Seriana Sedai - 14/07/2010 06:20:39 AM 2241 Views
You're making me want to talk about toadface Deadsy - 14/07/2010 02:06:25 PM 2121 Views
Sorry! Seriana Sedai - 15/07/2010 06:36:11 AM 2192 Views
Very early. Beginning of 1999, so it had just come out in the States. *NM* Ghavrel - 14/07/2010 08:54:06 AM 1321 Views
I held out quite awhile because I don't like "fads" Deadsy - 14/07/2010 02:04:37 PM 2062 Views
Lol! aria - 14/07/2010 08:54:47 PM 2151 Views
I did the same thing. Seriana Sedai - 15/07/2010 06:39:16 AM 2175 Views
Re: I did the same thing. Deadsy - 15/07/2010 10:01:04 AM 2346 Views
Re: I did the same thing. Seriana Sedai - 15/07/2010 05:44:28 PM 2248 Views
I would have, if I had known there was hype. I know I would have. nossy - 15/07/2010 03:28:50 PM 2240 Views
Seriana Sedai - 15/07/2010 05:47:01 PM 2233 Views
I think I was first! Monkey - 23/07/2010 07:05:08 PM 2176 Views
Aged 13 or 14 - a while before the first movie (which was Christmas 2001). *NM* Legolas - 26/07/2010 04:13:55 PM 1296 Views
Jesus Christ. Tor - 26/07/2010 05:04:46 PM 2295 Views
^That was me. *NM* Camilla - 26/07/2010 09:55:49 PM 1309 Views
I was going to ask if it was. *NM* Rebekah - 26/07/2010 10:04:59 PM 1256 Views
Aw. I was just feeling flattered as I didn't think Tor had read that many of my posts. *NM* Legolas - 27/07/2010 12:15:52 AM 1268 Views
Besides, you've met me, you should know how old I am. *NM* Legolas - 27/07/2010 12:16:23 AM 1314 Views
I am very bad at guessing age when I meet people in person Camilla - 27/07/2010 09:05:35 AM 2690 Views
Suggestions for the Re-read Rebekah - 12/07/2010 08:33:25 AM 2125 Views
I like it so far Camilla - 13/07/2010 10:16:49 AM 2101 Views
I can try that for the next book. Rebekah - 13/07/2010 11:21:01 PM 2072 Views
This is my first official time participating and its been fun so far! StormCrow - 14/07/2010 05:16:48 PM 2049 Views
Unfortunately, no. (Silly me, pretending someone's still going to read all my posts... ) *NM* Legolas - 26/07/2010 04:20:35 PM 1283 Views
Can we get chapter discussions everyday? *NM* Dark Knight - 15/07/2010 06:40:30 PM 1233 Views
Inconsistencies Re: the Potter's death... fionwe1987 - 15/07/2010 05:16:45 AM 2459 Views
Because they were tricked? They considered Peter and Sirius to be brothers. Ghavrel - 15/07/2010 07:05:27 AM 2094 Views
That's nonsense.. fionwe1987 - 16/07/2010 01:08:40 AM 2034 Views
Take it up with Rowling, since you don't believe me. *NM* Ghavrel - 16/07/2010 08:19:58 AM 1171 Views
What's there to believe? fionwe1987 - 18/07/2010 06:03:13 AM 2129 Views
Peter + Sirius = family. I don't know how to explain it more simply. *NM* Ghavrel - 18/07/2010 08:58:20 AM 1284 Views
Re: That's nonsense.. eucatastrophe - 16/07/2010 09:37:59 AM 2218 Views
Also Camilla - 16/07/2010 11:17:51 AM 2469 Views
You are correct! There is no inconsistency eucatastrophe - 17/07/2010 04:17:35 AM 2160 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 18/07/2010 05:57:58 AM 2017 Views
But Camilla explained it! eucatastrophe - 18/07/2010 09:27:55 AM 2329 Views
Correction Camilla - 18/07/2010 10:58:59 AM 2147 Views
I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... fionwe1987 - 18/07/2010 05:42:18 PM 2031 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... Camilla - 18/07/2010 05:51:36 PM 2059 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... fionwe1987 - 18/07/2010 06:17:04 PM 2353 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... Camilla - 18/07/2010 06:28:27 PM 2048 Views
That bothers me too. aria - 18/07/2010 07:17:14 PM 2144 Views
Re: That bothers me too. Camilla - 18/07/2010 07:20:44 PM 2000 Views
Yet... fionwe1987 - 18/07/2010 07:47:56 PM 2065 Views
Re: Yet... Camilla - 18/07/2010 08:02:31 PM 2077 Views
To quote Dumbledore... fionwe1987 - 19/07/2010 05:57:23 AM 1998 Views
Again... fionwe1987 - 18/07/2010 07:35:10 PM 2306 Views
Re: Again... Camilla - 18/07/2010 08:00:55 PM 2092 Views
Re: Again... fionwe1987 - 19/07/2010 06:33:13 AM 2285 Views
Re: Again... Camilla - 20/07/2010 04:45:16 PM 2112 Views
Yet another load of bosh. fionwe1987 - 21/07/2010 01:00:14 AM 2084 Views
Then let's leave it. Camilla - 21/07/2010 06:48:45 AM 2227 Views
Re: Then let's leave it. fionwe1987 - 21/07/2010 04:19:35 PM 2087 Views
My two cents Seriana Sedai - 19/07/2010 06:11:30 AM 2200 Views
It was just the sort of things these two daredevils would do... DomA - 14/09/2010 12:11:20 AM 2569 Views
Re: It was just the sort of things these two daredevils would do... Camilla - 14/09/2010 09:20:46 AM 1981 Views
You have to wonder if that's actually true. Legolas - 26/07/2010 04:23:31 PM 2079 Views
Re: You have to wonder if that's actually true. Tor - 26/07/2010 05:06:43 PM 2279 Views
I don't know that I'd call it "see through Pettigrew"... Legolas - 26/07/2010 06:22:19 PM 2048 Views
^That was me, too. Oh, dear. Camilla - 26/07/2010 09:56:43 PM 2278 Views
Since Lily and James were unable to leave the house aria - 18/07/2010 07:14:21 PM 2079 Views
Re: Since Lily and James were unable to leave the house Tor - 26/07/2010 05:07:48 PM 2485 Views
^ And this, too, was me. Camilla - 26/07/2010 09:58:07 PM 2099 Views
Re: ^ And this, too, was me. Rebekah - 26/07/2010 10:05:41 PM 1998 Views
Camilla - 26/07/2010 10:07:36 PM 1895 Views
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