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I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM
"A quest dynamic with an unworthy and somewhat unwilling hero and an object of mighty plot power" is "poor narrative model?" Tell that to Homer, Vergil, and Dante. I find this sort of attempt to redefine what constitutes a good plot to be distinctly unimpressive and wholly unconvincing. At worst, it smacks of the sort of historical absolutism that makes people denounce the fact that Jefferson owned slaves. Particularly egregious is the attack against Tolkien's "romanticization" of the countryside, as though we should additionally throw Shelley, Keats, and Bryant under the train of the twenty first century.

Look, I agree Tolkien's work isn't perfect. But it's a sore spot of mine when people categorically ignore the context in which something was done. In fairness, this applies to appreciation just as strongly, and someone not recognizing the role of history in Tolkien's women is definitely cause for concern. And frankly I agree with Camilla; the vast majority of criticism seems spurred on by its being in vogue.
"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1764 Views
Nonsense, at least in part - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1345 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1137 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1169 Views
i agree, and furthermore... - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1241 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1165 Views
Mno - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1252 Views
Have to agree. - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1223 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1048 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1096 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1174 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 990 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1195 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1193 Views
Fair enough. - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1204 Views
Also: the writing is crap. - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1127 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 486 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1146 Views
To the end - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 1016 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1192 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1206 Views
and I will - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 927 Views
that's fair enough then - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 987 Views
so I hear - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 950 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1075 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 1002 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1170 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 589 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 1015 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 955 Views
well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 966 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 1011 Views
one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 1046 Views
Re: one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1083 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 985 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1113 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1072 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 985 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1088 Views
Agreed, although, - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1049 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 969 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1092 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1094 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1039 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1189 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 515 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 971 Views
Oh, agreed. - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1117 Views
Incidentall - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1083 Views
Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1200 Views
Re: Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1078 Views
Ah - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1133 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1164 Views
I can see your points there - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1058 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1112 Views
all art forms have sacred cows - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1167 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1052 Views
women deserve black lung too!! - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 960 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 1027 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1341 Views
Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1121 Views
Re: Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 1087 Views
Probably in the sense... - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 997 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 966 Views
agreed. *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 504 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1366 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1446 Views
No it wasn't. - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1123 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1117 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1128 Views
This. *NM* - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1209 Views

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