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So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? random thoughts Send a noteboard - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM
I am growing tired of this. Shortly after the films started coming out it became fashionable in circles of self-styled intellectuals to fall out of love with Tolkien. Of course they are free to do that, but don't present it as an objective truth or a sign of excellent taste. It makes me somewhat nauseous.

I have long been planning a proper long post on this tendency, but I never seem to find the time. I am sure it will come one of these days. For now, though, this will have to do:

Piffle and poppycock.

Edit: I realise that I appear to confirm precisely what the man said in the blog, but I think you know me well enough to realise it is simply time constraint.


I still think there are some valid points that are raised, both in the essay and elsewhere. No fiction should be sacred, but instead tested. As long as such works pass their tests, they endure. There are certainly elements in Tolkien's fiction that I think should be scrutinized more closely, but that process is not to necessarily validate or invalidate what he wrote, but to see how the Text still functions a half-century or more after its initial publication.
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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1730 Views
Nonsense, at least in part - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1289 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1105 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1136 Views
i agree, and furthermore... - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1206 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1134 Views
Mno - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1221 Views
Have to agree. - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1194 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1021 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1063 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1142 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 955 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1156 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1157 Views
Fair enough. - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1152 Views
Also: the writing is crap. - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1099 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 472 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1111 Views
To the end - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 984 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1158 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1177 Views
and I will - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 895 Views
that's fair enough then - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 954 Views
so I hear - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 920 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1039 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 968 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1137 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 573 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 983 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 926 Views
well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 937 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 980 Views
one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 1013 Views
Re: one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1049 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 957 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1085 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1042 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 952 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1055 Views
Agreed, although, - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1018 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 934 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1061 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1060 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1007 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1155 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 503 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 935 Views
Oh, agreed. - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1081 Views
Incidentall - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1045 Views
Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1161 Views
Re: Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1050 Views
Ah - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1099 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1126 Views
I can see your points there - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1024 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1077 Views
all art forms have sacred cows - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1133 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1025 Views
women deserve black lung too!! - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 929 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 996 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1299 Views
Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1087 Views
Re: Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 1036 Views
Probably in the sense... - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 965 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 933 Views
agreed. *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 489 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1332 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1416 Views
No it wasn't. - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1075 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1086 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1094 Views
This. *NM* - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1177 Views

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