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Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM
I don't remember much of it (my fatal flaw in these conversations ) but the jist was that, yes, these other women are all "Strong" in their relationships...

but BEFORE they were strong, they were weak (physically or otherwise) until they were "Saved" by a male vampire. So the basic idea was that these women were only portrayed as strong after they'd been saved by their men and given their place...by men.
Still Empress of the Poofy Purple Pillow Pile Palace!!
Continued Love of my Aussie <3
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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy Larry - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1836 Views
Nonsense, at least in part Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1415 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here Larry - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1212 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1230 Views
i agree, and furthermore... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1304 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here dacole - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1245 Views
Mno Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1323 Views
Have to agree. Seriana Sedai - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1304 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. Tim - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1114 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* Ghavrel - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1195 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1252 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 1058 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... Legolas - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1259 Views
mmm, except it's relevant to Bella too. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:03 PM 1136 Views
That's my point, it's pretty much only relevant to Bella - only there is it shown prominently. *NM* Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:59:54 PM 541 Views
Of course, since she's the main character, it matters rather a lot, yes? *NM* Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:39:07 AM 530 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1270 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1270 Views
Also: the writing is crap. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1196 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 512 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1209 Views
To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 1093 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1271 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1267 Views
and I will random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 992 Views
that's fair enough then LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 1054 Views
so I hear random thoughts - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 1022 Views
Re: To the end dacole - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1138 Views
Re: To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 1067 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? Legolas - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1252 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* Dark Knight - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 611 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now Lordling - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 1080 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 1017 Views
well you have not failed completely random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 1029 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 1080 Views
one quick question random thoughts - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 1117 Views
Re: one quick question Camilla - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1150 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity random thoughts - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 1046 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read Larry - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1182 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1137 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 1045 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1147 Views
Agreed, although, Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1114 Views
None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series. Legolas - 29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM 1047 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 1036 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. dacole - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1167 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1161 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1107 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1259 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 540 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 1032 Views
Oh, agreed. Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1182 Views
Incidentall Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1151 Views
Ha! Larry - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1271 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1158 Views
Ah Larry - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1197 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. Legolas - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1242 Views
I can see your points there Larry - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1164 Views
I completely agree that there should be no sacred cows, and that applies to Tolkien. Tom - 28/07/2010 11:13:39 PM 1165 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. Ghavrel - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1183 Views
all art forms have sacred cows random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1249 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. Gher - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1117 Views
women deserve black lung too!! LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 1026 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 1097 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. fionwe1987 - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1420 Views
Disappointing. Werthead - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1186 Views
Re: Disappointing. Camilla - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 1163 Views
Probably in the sense... Jacob - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 1061 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. Werthead - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 1030 Views
agreed. *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 531 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. Tom - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1427 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works lyringlas - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1521 Views
No it wasn't. Tom - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1202 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy dacole - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1209 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. everynametaken - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1206 Views
This. *NM* Dan - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1275 Views
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