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Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM
I don't remember much of it (my fatal flaw in these conversations ) but the jist was that, yes, these other women are all "Strong" in their relationships...

but BEFORE they were strong, they were weak (physically or otherwise) until they were "Saved" by a male vampire. So the basic idea was that these women were only portrayed as strong after they'd been saved by their men and given their place...by men.
Still Empress of the Poofy Purple Pillow Pile Palace!!
Continued Love of my Aussie <3
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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy Larry - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1744 Views
Nonsense, at least in part Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1313 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here Larry - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1119 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1150 Views
i agree, and furthermore... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1221 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here dacole - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1148 Views
Mno Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1235 Views
Have to agree. Seriana Sedai - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1205 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. Tim - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1034 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* Ghavrel - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1078 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1154 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 973 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... Legolas - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1174 Views
mmm, except it's relevant to Bella too. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:03 PM 1052 Views
That's my point, it's pretty much only relevant to Bella - only there is it shown prominently. *NM* Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:59:54 PM 509 Views
Of course, since she's the main character, it matters rather a lot, yes? *NM* Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:39:07 AM 503 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1173 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1168 Views
Also: the writing is crap. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1109 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 477 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1126 Views
To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 997 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1174 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1191 Views
and I will random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 908 Views
that's fair enough then LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 968 Views
so I hear random thoughts - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 933 Views
Re: To the end dacole - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1057 Views
Re: To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 983 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? Legolas - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1152 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* Dark Knight - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 580 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now Lordling - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 998 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 942 Views
well you have not failed completely random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 950 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 995 Views
one quick question random thoughts - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 1027 Views
Re: one quick question Camilla - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1064 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity random thoughts - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 971 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read Larry - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1098 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1056 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 967 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1070 Views
Agreed, although, Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1032 Views
None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series. Legolas - 29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM 961 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 951 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. dacole - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1075 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1076 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1020 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1169 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 508 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 950 Views
Oh, agreed. Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1095 Views
Incidentall Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1062 Views
Ha! Larry - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1178 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1063 Views
Ah Larry - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1114 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. Legolas - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1143 Views
I can see your points there Larry - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1039 Views
I completely agree that there should be no sacred cows, and that applies to Tolkien. Tom - 28/07/2010 11:13:39 PM 1051 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. Ghavrel - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1092 Views
all art forms have sacred cows random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1150 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. Gher - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1038 Views
women deserve black lung too!! LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 942 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 1010 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. fionwe1987 - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1314 Views
Disappointing. Werthead - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1103 Views
Re: Disappointing. Camilla - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 1054 Views
Probably in the sense... Jacob - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 981 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. Werthead - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 946 Views
agreed. *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 496 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. Tom - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1346 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works lyringlas - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1430 Views
No it wasn't. Tom - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1089 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy dacole - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1101 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. everynametaken - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1108 Views
This. *NM* Dan - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1193 Views
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