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This. *NM* Dan Send a noteboard - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM
A friend of mine, Paul Smith, wrote this essay earlier today in response to an earlier essay of mine on genre sacred cows and discussion of such. Since he has a few links to related discussions, I suggest you just click on the link and read his arguments.


I read his books as a kid and then moved on. I remember liking them but I never had a desire to learn Elven languages or dress up as Gollum (sp) for Halloween and I never felt the need to put him on a pedestal of any sort even though I can definitely appreciate the effort he put into his books and their importance in the history of the fantasy genre. I respect Tolkien but I get seriously annoyed be his fans at times when they turn him into some kind of flawless artist of pen and paper. Of course, just as dumb are people who want to overly criticize his flaws in some attempt to show how awesome their skills at critiquing literature are.
This message last edited by Dan on 30/07/2010 at 07:43:39 PM
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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1816 Views
Nonsense, at least in part - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1388 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1186 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1212 Views
i agree, and furthermore... - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1283 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1220 Views
Mno - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1305 Views
Have to agree. - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1278 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1092 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1169 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1227 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 1035 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1238 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1250 Views
Fair enough. - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1252 Views
Also: the writing is crap. - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1171 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 505 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1188 Views
To the end - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 1067 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1247 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1248 Views
and I will - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 970 Views
that's fair enough then - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 1034 Views
so I hear - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 997 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1118 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 1048 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1232 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 606 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 1061 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 1000 Views
well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 1012 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 1056 Views
one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 1090 Views
Re: one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1132 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 1025 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1157 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1114 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 1027 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1131 Views
Agreed, although, - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1093 Views
None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series. - 29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM 1028 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 1013 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1145 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1139 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1085 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1233 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 533 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 1010 Views
Oh, agreed. - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1159 Views
Incidentall - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1126 Views
Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1246 Views
Re: Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1131 Views
Ah - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1172 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1219 Views
I can see your points there - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1136 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1157 Views
all art forms have sacred cows - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1222 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1096 Views
women deserve black lung too!! - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 1006 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 1072 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1400 Views
Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1165 Views
Re: Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 1142 Views
Probably in the sense... - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 1043 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 1008 Views
agreed. *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 525 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1408 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1493 Views
No it wasn't. - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1180 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1188 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1176 Views
This. *NM* - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1255 Views

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