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I'd have a slow moving plot to fast moving nonsense any day. fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 15/09/2009 05:36:20 AM
A lot, that's how many.

Dan Brown at least knows how to advance a plot. Robert Jordan couldn't. George Martin seems to be having serious problems with the same point.

However, both their plots have both realism and internal consistency, a strong development of themes and are filled with believable characters, all written in decent prose that doesn't make you want to kick things.
Slow plot movement is nothing when these elements are present.

Brown, on the other hand, has two dimensional paper cutouts who race through a story that is completely devoid of realism (which is a staggering indictment, since his stories are set in our world, while Martin's and Jordan's are not). There are absolutely no themes, except perhaps that heroes are handsome and villains are not!
This message last edited by fionwe1987 on 15/09/2009 at 05:55:37 AM
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Why is it that so many people hate Dan Brown? Tom - 14/09/2009 09:24:31 PM 2696 Views
His prose is bad. Very bad. Rebekah - 14/09/2009 09:28:28 PM 1530 Views
It's not any worse than Robert Jordan's prose. I'd say it's better, in fact. Tom - 14/09/2009 09:30:17 PM 1368 Views
Re: It's not any worse than Robert Jordan's prose. I'd say it's better, in fact. Camilla - 14/09/2009 09:32:44 PM 1500 Views
In defense of italics... smaug - 14/09/2009 11:58:35 PM 1461 Views
Re: In defense of italics... Camilla - 15/09/2009 08:02:56 AM 1443 Views
I just rechecked... smaug - 15/09/2009 11:17:23 AM 1364 Views
Thereby... Wibble - 15/09/2009 10:31:44 PM 1385 Views
I have a problem with comparing those italics. Rebekah - 15/09/2009 10:33:53 PM 1382 Views
Oh probably Wibble - 15/09/2009 10:40:15 PM 1393 Views
Hehe Rebekah - 15/09/2009 10:42:23 PM 1486 Views
In defense of nothing in particular... smaug - 15/09/2009 11:16:09 PM 1463 Views
Ah. Leroux did publish it as a serial in magazine first so that makes sense. *NM* Rebekah - 15/09/2009 11:19:40 PM 681 Views
Re: Thereby... Camilla - 16/09/2009 10:40:18 AM 1528 Views
I love that line, and nothing you say will change that. Legolas - 15/09/2009 11:15:29 PM 1399 Views
That line is great smaug - 15/09/2009 11:21:03 PM 1428 Views
Jordan didn't have the good sense TO FINISH ANY FUCKING PLOT THREAD Tom - 15/09/2009 04:46:06 AM 1370 Views
Wow, the vehemence. Craig - 15/09/2009 05:55:38 AM 1436 Views
Riddle me this, Batman - if he weren't dying, would he have even done that? *NM* Tom - 15/09/2009 01:53:57 PM 787 Views
Yes. Werthead - 15/09/2009 03:38:34 PM 1371 Views
burn *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/09/2009 04:24:49 PM 668 Views
Relevant post as always Celia *NM* Walker_Boh - 15/09/2009 11:36:34 PM 734 Views
So you say... Tom - 16/09/2009 02:17:47 AM 1349 Views
No, he didn't. Werthead - 16/09/2009 04:44:31 AM 1466 Views
Re: Jordan didn't have the good sense TO FINISH ANY FUCKING PLOT THREAD Camilla - 15/09/2009 08:05:26 AM 1400 Views
His attitude to history isn't really any different from that of most writers Tom - 15/09/2009 01:54:55 PM 1414 Views
Except Camilla - 15/09/2009 04:56:23 PM 1396 Views
And ALSO except Tom - 17/09/2009 02:59:03 PM 1483 Views
Re: And ALSO except Camilla - 17/09/2009 05:27:40 PM 1368 Views
I vehemently disagree with this! Rebekah - 14/09/2009 09:33:05 PM 1651 Views
How many chapters of Aes Sedai dresses and horse names did we go through in his books? Tom - 15/09/2009 04:45:04 AM 1416 Views
I'd have a slow moving plot to fast moving nonsense any day. fionwe1987 - 15/09/2009 05:36:20 AM 1490 Views
With Jordan, that movement was glacial Tom - 15/09/2009 01:58:08 PM 1353 Views
so...your problem with jordan is that you're impatient? LadyLorraine - 15/09/2009 04:26:07 PM 1324 Views
How many of us can say we're not antsy to know what happened? nossy - 15/09/2009 05:03:24 PM 1378 Views
So plot progression is all that matters? What about the other stuff I mentioned? *NM* fionwe1987 - 15/09/2009 04:50:06 PM 678 Views
Jordan's characters are just as two-dimensional as Brown's Tom - 16/09/2009 02:17:19 AM 1340 Views
Bull... fionwe1987 - 16/09/2009 03:15:49 AM 1351 Views
No, I think you're just blinded by liking WoT Tom - 17/09/2009 03:00:28 PM 1338 Views
No, you seem to be blinded by disliking him, more like. Legolas - 17/09/2009 06:25:21 PM 1355 Views
It's not hyperbole. Tom - 17/09/2009 08:13:47 PM 1376 Views
Yes, it is, and you're really going to have to back your stance up with arguments. Legolas - 17/09/2009 09:21:56 PM 1403 Views
No it isn't, and I won't. I'm bored with this debate. *NM* Tom - 18/09/2009 02:57:00 PM 703 Views
Yeah like that's not the case with you and Dan Brown. fionwe1987 - 17/09/2009 06:56:37 PM 1398 Views
I don't think Dan Brown is a stellar writer. Tom - 17/09/2009 08:11:41 PM 1380 Views
Heh. It was "favourite" fantasy series not "best". Rebekah - 17/09/2009 08:19:02 PM 1329 Views
Then why defend him? fionwe1987 - 18/09/2009 12:14:35 AM 1337 Views
No Camilla - 18/09/2009 10:09:02 AM 1492 Views
Examples. Werthead - 17/09/2009 01:53:21 AM 1579 Views
LOL Rebekah - 17/09/2009 03:16:23 PM 1402 Views
Because he is shit? Camilla - 14/09/2009 09:38:59 PM 1665 Views
Camilla, you've read shit before and liked it. Tom - 15/09/2009 04:43:24 AM 1439 Views
Re: Camilla, you've read shit before and liked it. Camilla - 15/09/2009 08:04:18 AM 1357 Views
Yes, I was talking about the book. Tom - 15/09/2009 01:58:54 PM 1380 Views
Re: Yes, I was talking about the book. Camilla - 15/09/2009 04:56:53 PM 1297 Views
Also Camilla - 14/09/2009 09:41:25 PM 1417 Views
Hate is a strong word. PhotoJim - 14/09/2009 09:44:02 PM 1456 Views
Nicely put. *NM* Rebekah - 14/09/2009 09:46:03 PM 677 Views
*NM* Tashmere - 15/09/2009 04:16:35 AM 701 Views
He still didn't dick around with us as long as Robert Jordan did. *NM* Tom - 15/09/2009 04:41:01 AM 710 Views
I'm not disagreeing with you on that one. *NM* PhotoJim - 15/09/2009 12:12:52 PM 735 Views
Elitism and frustration he sells so much and better authors don't? Legolas - 14/09/2009 09:51:39 PM 1340 Views
I think so. Tom - 15/09/2009 04:40:20 AM 1430 Views
you thought meyers was entertaining???? LadyLorraine - 15/09/2009 04:28:48 PM 1340 Views
You thought it wasn't entertaining? Darth_Katie - 15/09/2009 07:42:06 PM 1324 Views
I would phrase that 'better' authors Wibble - 15/09/2009 10:29:54 PM 1353 Views
Okay, fair enough. Legolas - 15/09/2009 11:16:56 PM 1295 Views
Given that I know nothing about Dan Brown nossy - 14/09/2009 09:54:15 PM 1458 Views
Pfft! ~locks your reply~ Rebekah - 14/09/2009 10:00:23 PM 1366 Views
ooo, lock me baby! nossy - 14/09/2009 10:12:48 PM 1427 Views
A couple of the above points, and Suspension of Disbelief. Craig - 14/09/2009 10:23:26 PM 1433 Views
Good point about the "Ridiculous Things", that bugged me too. Legolas - 14/09/2009 10:35:32 PM 1475 Views
there is a difference between a book, which is a respectable medium, and a hollywood movie. jh - 14/09/2009 10:41:06 PM 1363 Views
There is really only a difference if you're looking for some higher learnin' nossy - 14/09/2009 10:52:39 PM 1426 Views
That statement makes no sense. *NM* jh - 14/09/2009 10:55:53 PM 598 Views
She must have been reading too much Dan Brown. Rebekah - 14/09/2009 10:58:51 PM 1327 Views
Yes it does nossy - 14/09/2009 11:00:41 PM 1331 Views
Only to the strangest of elitists. *NM* Ghavrel - 15/09/2009 12:49:53 AM 723 Views
Go read screenplays for fun, populist. *NM* jh - 15/09/2009 10:20:01 AM 728 Views
Ghavrel - 15/09/2009 06:25:26 PM 1336 Views
Oh, I am sorry. jh - 16/09/2009 11:11:07 AM 1246 Views
Well... Craig - 14/09/2009 11:16:00 PM 1319 Views
I accept your points, but also your final statement Tom - 15/09/2009 04:38:46 AM 1330 Views
More to the point then... people don't really need a good reason to hate something in particular. Craig - 15/09/2009 06:00:33 AM 1425 Views
You didn't even like him as Mugatu in Zoolander? *NM* Tom - 15/09/2009 01:47:57 PM 685 Views
Now, now. Craig - 15/09/2009 07:03:48 PM 1329 Views
Suspension of disbelief is a relative thing random thoughts - 15/09/2009 11:25:32 PM 1425 Views
Damn near everything is a relative thing. Craig - 16/09/2009 05:25:48 AM 1397 Views
I'm indifferent to him Larry - 15/09/2009 01:14:37 AM 1369 Views
If you're indifferent, you are apparently in a minority. Tom - 15/09/2009 04:36:28 AM 1356 Views
To put Brown's mediocrity in perspective, read Da Vinci and then Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco. *NM* RandAllThor - 15/09/2009 01:32:11 AM 720 Views
Eh, I enjoyed DaVinci better. You can all crucify me now. Craig - 15/09/2009 01:49:28 AM 1306 Views
Re: Eh, I enjoyed DaVinci better. You can all crucify me now. RandAllThor - 15/09/2009 01:54:17 AM 1448 Views
Re: Rose Craig - 15/09/2009 02:16:53 AM 1330 Views
As someone who appreciated Foucault's Pendulum I don't argue his mediocrity. Tom - 15/09/2009 04:30:31 AM 1240 Views
I agree with your last sentence strongly. Joker - 26/09/2009 08:18:42 PM 1606 Views
I don't hate him, and I've never read any of his books Brian - 15/09/2009 01:45:37 AM 1320 Views
He was over hyped to me. Tashmere - 15/09/2009 04:15:32 AM 1341 Views
Da Vinci, not "Da Vinchi". The latter would be pronounced like "Da Vinki" in English. *NM* Tom - 15/09/2009 04:32:40 AM 688 Views
I will fix it for for you. I just didn't care enough to look up the spelling on it. Tashmere - 15/09/2009 02:49:08 PM 1442 Views
I agree it was way overhyped. everynametaken - 16/09/2009 02:12:39 AM 1274 Views
Heh, I actually had the opposite. Craig - 16/09/2009 05:26:55 AM 1362 Views
The thing I hate the most is actually the fans who suddenly "know" stuff.... Sophy - 15/09/2009 07:49:22 AM 1516 Views
Yes! *NM* Camilla - 15/09/2009 08:06:35 AM 712 Views
I try to avoid stupid people like that altogether Tom - 15/09/2009 01:49:53 PM 1277 Views
And move to a deserted island? Sophy - 15/09/2009 02:33:01 PM 1588 Views
Those people are everywhere, but you don't have to talk to them Tom - 17/09/2009 03:02:24 PM 1448 Views
Lol. I agree wholeheartedly. everynametaken - 16/09/2009 02:17:51 AM 1430 Views
My take on why Dan Brown is so disliked. MightyYT - 15/09/2009 08:51:04 AM 1449 Views
As I've said before, I don't disagree that he's a mediocre writer Tom - 15/09/2009 01:52:23 PM 1347 Views
He 'true' book claims 5 million women were killed during the witch hunt AgentOrange - 15/09/2009 11:55:40 AM 1320 Views
I would hardly say I hate him Mark - 15/09/2009 02:33:13 PM 1387 Views
I think it's more the totally inexplicable nature of his success Werthead - 15/09/2009 03:48:28 PM 1474 Views
Eragon and Twilight indicate all that is evil to me in the world LadyLorraine - 15/09/2009 04:33:29 PM 1452 Views
I hardly think it's that inexplicable. Legolas - 15/09/2009 04:33:39 PM 1334 Views
Honestly, his works play on a very basic fact of human psychology., everynametaken - 16/09/2009 02:23:56 AM 1460 Views
Misplaced superiority. Jacob - 15/09/2009 05:10:34 PM 1397 Views
Well, regarding goodkind... jh - 15/09/2009 05:23:34 PM 1399 Views
I couldn't say... Jacob - 15/09/2009 05:57:12 PM 1417 Views
well, you stuck with the poor quality books longer than me. *NM* jh - 16/09/2009 12:39:23 AM 687 Views
It's pure literary snobbery Wibble - 15/09/2009 11:08:44 PM 1425 Views
I agree with you 100%. Tom - 16/09/2009 02:20:11 AM 1304 Views
Very nice summary. everynametaken - 16/09/2009 02:32:38 AM 1458 Views
That's more than a little unfair. Craig - 16/09/2009 05:29:59 AM 1350 Views
Dan Brown is a snob. Sophy - 16/09/2009 06:32:21 AM 1555 Views
Where does the rule come from that you can't read good books while travelling? It is nonsense! Camilla - 18/09/2009 10:16:56 AM 1599 Views
because all of the cool kids hate him random thoughts - 15/09/2009 11:17:29 PM 1229 Views
He has an enormous schwanzstucker. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 16/09/2009 01:18:37 AM 920 Views
I figured that'd set most guys against him. *NM* rebelaessedai - 16/09/2009 01:51:56 AM 699 Views
I don't get it either. everynametaken - 16/09/2009 02:01:04 AM 1318 Views
I think you'll appreciate this Tom Geoff - 16/09/2009 03:03:24 PM 1590 Views
Hmm. The sneerathon seems like a good idea. jh - 16/09/2009 03:52:15 PM 1345 Views
That was lovely, thank you! Tom - 17/09/2009 03:04:46 PM 1331 Views
My pleasure Geoff - 17/09/2009 03:58:31 PM 1485 Views
I don't. I think he's just average, though occasionally fun for an easy read/skim *NM* IndigoAjah - 17/09/2009 12:39:05 AM 737 Views
Plenty of them probably don't. They just don't have the guts to say what they truly think. *NM* Vodalus - 17/09/2009 10:10:39 PM 669 Views
And yet there's still no "Why do so many people hate Faile?" post on the WoT board... *NM* TaskmasterJack - 18/09/2009 04:05:26 PM 915 Views
How do you know? *NM* jh - 18/09/2009 04:57:15 PM 698 Views
I pop in there on occasion. TaskmasterJack - 18/09/2009 05:09:59 PM 1702 Views
Oh, it's a job. jh - 18/09/2009 07:35:32 PM 1481 Views
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