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Well, or we can have a civil debate on French culture, I suppose... also fun. Legolas Send a noteboard - 16/12/2010 09:09:20 PM
If you doubt that French culture is dying, look at the sad state of France itself. France is a country that now has as many TV channels in Arabic as in French and an unsustainable economy driven by strikes. I'm not going to go as far as the author of Eurabia or the neocons in America generally and say that France is irrevocably doomed, but France has lost its status as a cultural trend-setter completely, just like it lost economic significance after the war. It's not just the Islamification of large parts of the suburbs of Paris and other major cities - that would be an oversimplification worthy of Fox News. It's a far deeper phenomenon, and a far more complicated one.

I don't disagree that France has been in what one might call a big identity crisis for a good while now, or that it's in a sad state. To some extent that's true for many Western countries right now, but it's worse in France and it's been going on for longer. But to use that argument to throw all contemporary French literature out of the window, or at least all contemporary French literature that decides not to use the out-moded passé simple, that goes a bit far. :P After all, a civilization that is having existential issues can still produce interesting literature or art. And for all the Islam-related issues France has, those immigrants have had their impact on French literature, and I don't just mean in L'Etranger (where they weren't immigrants anyway, but I digress), perhaps even revitalized it to some extent by bringing in new ideas and ways of looking at things.
However, few people will deny that France is past its prime. From what I can tell, a fair number of French are dissatisfied with the current state of things as well (and they voted for Sarkozy, thankfully). I sympathize with them and with the rich, vibrant culture that has been almost destroyed. As a result, I'll take exception to your statements only as follows:

Yeah, I'm not sure if they'll vote for Sarkozy again. I know I'd have my doubts, personally. I'd probably still vote for him in 2012, but reluctantly. If the French PS wasn't such a prehistorical monstrosity, I'd say Sarkozy well deserves to be taken down a notch.
1. I do not despise France, though it has become a terrible trainwreck of a nation

2. I do not despise those French who want to make their country competitive without losing its identity

3. Sarkozy has tried to turn things and I think highly of him

You have to admit he's rather failed at turning things, though, and while part of the blame for that obviously lies with the elements in French society fighting the necessary changes tooth and nail, part of it is his needless antagonizing and annoying of, well, just about everyone. I was more impressed by Sarkozy when he was just Minister of the Interior.
However, if you want to say that I look down on people who can't learn the passé simple or properly use it in writing, then yes, I most emphatically do. If you want to say I look down on French people who wallow in a morass of entitlements, then yes, I do. If you think I`m implying that France has lost much of what made it great, then yes, I am. I admit all of that and am not trying to equivocate on any of those points.

See, that first point is the one that really bugs me. Languages evolve. You don't look down on people who fail to write in 19th century English, why would you down on people who fail to write in 19th century French? The reason people don't use the passé simple anymore isn't that it's too hard - it's arguably easier than the alternatives they're using now. It's just that somehow it fell into disuse, just like plenty of words and tenses and cases and grammatic rules in any other language. And really, if you're going to complain (quite rightly so, I should add) about French people wallowing in entitlements, one would think you wouldn't encourage their being stuck in the past in their literature at the same time. Because that's really the only thing you can call the stubborn refusal to stop using a tense that has fallen into disuse in the spoken language a long time ago. If France is to stop mooning over its achievements of the past and actually try to have some achievements in the present for a change, that means letting the past be the past and looking forward, in grammar like in anything else.
Perhaps it`s not worth pointing out, but Québec seems to have retained a rich and truly French culture despite massive pressures from the English-speaking world around it. Montréal is a wonderfully French city and there is little that I could or would fault in their ability to mix a modern, multicultural society with a strong and assertively French flavor. Given that Canada`s economic system seems to work pretty well (for all I make fun of Canada), France could probably benefit from studying Québec a bit more.

I couldn't agree more, but then I spent one of the best summers in my life in Montréal with my then-girlfriend, so I would think that way about Québec. ;) And the French acknowledge it too, really, judging by the disproportionately large success enjoyed by Québecois artists, actors and writers in France (and the rest of the world; I don't really see any French cultural export products of the past few decades that can match the Cirque du Soleil and Céline Dion, in terms of international success).

The Québecois are nearly as left-wing in economic terms as the French, from what I can tell, but I suppose they have the advantage of being balanced by the rather conservative rest of Canada (excepting Ontario and BC, I suppose). One could make a good case that Québec has the best of both worlds in terms of the European vs. American mentality.
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Maurice Druon - The Accursed Kings - 13/12/2010 08:19:21 PM 7671 Views
Thank you for giving this review - I had forgotten the name of the author and series. - 13/12/2010 09:29:59 PM 1563 Views
You're welcome (and thanks for the correction, edited). - 13/12/2010 10:23:55 PM 1596 Views
I know it's not "literary". (EDITED) - 13/12/2010 10:42:33 PM 1493 Views
Subjunctive imperfect, yeah. - 13/12/2010 10:51:34 PM 1566 Views
And with regard to your edit, I don't have a problem with passé simples myself. - 13/12/2010 10:53:59 PM 1919 Views
But how can one read any French literature at all without encountering the passé simple? - 15/12/2010 03:39:37 AM 1720 Views
The point is it is a "literary" tense - 15/12/2010 10:19:59 AM 1701 Views
Why would I read a lower style of book (I won't use the term "literature" to describe them) ? - 16/12/2010 06:11:36 AM 1503 Views
I don't want to start a fight here, but your attitude is seriously starting to grate. - 16/12/2010 06:54:30 PM 1772 Views
I don't care. Start a fight. - 16/12/2010 08:24:22 PM 1675 Views
Well, or we can have a civil debate on French culture, I suppose... also fun. - 16/12/2010 09:09:20 PM 1662 Views
Well, I'm up for that, too. - 17/12/2010 05:48:39 AM 1647 Views
Good. - 17/12/2010 09:01:37 PM 2004 Views
Ah - I support the subjunctive!!! - 18/12/2010 05:10:38 AM 1863 Views
TANGENT - 18/12/2010 09:56:31 AM 1754 Views
This whole conversation is just a pile of tangents, anyway. *NM* - 18/12/2010 01:30:09 PM 794 Views
I enjoy the tangent. - 21/12/2010 12:43:23 AM 1421 Views
But you don't think its disappearance corresponds to a decline in American culture? - 18/12/2010 01:29:43 PM 1650 Views
I read Der Zauberberg in English already. - 21/12/2010 12:48:16 AM 1488 Views
About the passé simple, what Camilla said. As for medieval vocabulary... - 15/12/2010 07:17:44 PM 1665 Views
"Ne...point" is used in Stendhal all the time. - 16/12/2010 06:08:40 AM 1547 Views
That looks like a really fascinating series. - 13/12/2010 10:56:52 PM 1617 Views
Step up your French lessons!!! - 13/12/2010 11:50:21 PM 1805 Views
That is a great reason to learn French. - 14/12/2010 07:29:54 PM 1528 Views
Re: That is a great reason to learn French. - 14/12/2010 08:13:59 PM 1542 Views
Fancier English often turns out to be French, of course. *NM* - 17/12/2010 06:41:19 PM 874 Views
Ooooh - 14/12/2010 07:41:03 PM 1458 Views
I'm really not quite sure how you managed that. - 14/12/2010 08:09:55 PM 1608 Views
Re: I'm really not quite sure how you managed that. - 14/12/2010 08:13:48 PM 1513 Views
I meant Bertière, yeah. Dumas works too, though. - 14/12/2010 08:18:30 PM 1583 Views

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