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Nice attempt at sophistry, but alas, it fails Larry Send a noteboard - 11/09/2012 12:38:24 AM
I've had this discussion a few times with Camilla, not least when I extol the virtues of a Dan Brown novel as a well written book for it's audience. As long as the book tells a good story and the writing doesn't get in the way of that, job done, it's well written.

Literature students and snobs amuse me as much as artsy film snobs, who dont think a movie is worthwile unless it's a 4hours long, black and white, subtitled, film from the Czech Republic.


It fails because if one wants to reject a quantitative approach toward assessing prose quality, then one would have to also reject out of hand the notion of "good story" as being something that is defined by itself. Since the former (the prose)'s rejection would constitute a further rejection of anything other than a relativist approach, that in turn would lead to exceptions being made in order to try and slip out of the counter that if there is no real quantitative approach and if it is all relative, then there could be no cause to use pejoratives to denounce those who utilize their own judgment to assess the poorness of the work at hand.

Now assuming that you really meant that there was this ill-defined notion of "good story" as being like obscenity, which is "I know it when I see it," then the question arises of whether or not others may reject your evaluative tools as being insufficient. Here, like in civil law, judgment would weigh on "preponderance of evidence" and not solely on individual perceptions. Now I suppose I could quote examples from what I have read in the Legends trilogy in support of my assertion that the prose is subpar in comparison to other fictions originally intended for an age 10-16 audience and perhaps you could counter that with....with what?

Here's the crux. I'm willing to provide evidence from the text itself. Are you going to do more than just say "good story" without qualifying it?

Then there's another angle, one that I think is the easiest for all involved. For this approach, one can simply admit that based on communal "standards" (which have some leeway, but are not so flexible as to admit all things), there are writings that would be considered poor based on societal expectations of what constitutes "good writing," but yet due to other, perhaps more idiosyncratic individual values (primary of plot over theme/characterization/prose, particular theme at the expense of prose/characterization, etc.) there are elements that one can enjoy while admitting that for the majority, such a work would be "trashy" or "poor." That is what I would do when asked to explain why I enjoy watching professional wrestling ;)
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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This may be one of the most dire reviews you shall ever read - 09/09/2012 09:12:25 PM 2177 Views
Certainly one of the most original, you get points for that. - 09/09/2012 10:39:00 PM 1417 Views
Well... - 09/09/2012 10:57:25 PM 1409 Views
A review of a D&D bestiary could be more dire. - 09/09/2012 11:29:17 PM 1280 Views
Perhaps - 09/09/2012 11:50:20 PM 1391 Views
Hey now. Owlbears are awesome. - 11/09/2012 02:35:28 AM 1600 Views
That page is painful to behold - 11/09/2012 03:09:29 AM 1383 Views
They are popular as they are fun, easy reading books - 10/09/2012 12:11:24 AM 1359 Views
"Popular", "Fun," and "Easy" doesn't have to be equated with poorly-written - 10/09/2012 12:16:27 AM 1497 Views
Poorly written by what standard? - 10/09/2012 12:29:17 AM 1450 Views
By the standards of what I enjoyed as a nine year-old? - 10/09/2012 01:04:12 AM 1389 Views
So like I said, by the standards of Elitist Literary Snobs - 11/09/2012 12:03:08 AM 1491 Views
Nice attempt at sophistry, but alas, it fails - 11/09/2012 12:38:24 AM 1393 Views
Was that meant to make any sense? - 11/09/2012 01:43:13 AM 1544 Views
Re: Was that meant to make any sense? - 11/09/2012 01:54:23 AM 1384 Views
I'm with Wibble on this (big surprise) - 12/09/2012 03:07:53 PM 1500 Views
Heh. - 12/09/2012 03:43:52 PM 1599 Views
Pretty much so - 12/09/2012 04:19:35 PM 1520 Views
When did you put up that header? - 12/09/2012 04:35:20 PM 1404 Views
I didn't put it up - 12/09/2012 04:51:32 PM 1312 Views
I shall tread lightly so. - 12/09/2012 06:15:51 PM 1452 Views
- 12/09/2012 07:25:29 PM 1299 Views
+6 health? What game are you playing? - 12/09/2012 07:52:52 PM 1345 Views
The Game of Life? - 12/09/2012 08:23:53 PM 1423 Views
Re: Pretty much so - 12/09/2012 08:50:57 PM 1430 Views
You apparently do not read my blog/reviews much - 12/09/2012 09:07:18 PM 1446 Views
Actually, I read them almost never - 13/09/2012 03:07:48 PM 1484 Views
I think my IQ dropped a little bit when I parsed what you said - 13/09/2012 04:16:21 PM 1443 Views
Yep, your usual rebuttal... *NM* - 17/09/2012 02:14:56 PM 700 Views
No, not really - 17/09/2012 06:25:15 PM 1262 Views
Yes, Yes, wrap yourself in arrogance and declare yourself correct until your opposite gets bored... - 17/09/2012 11:12:17 PM 1573 Views
Nah, I just wipe my ass with arrogance - 18/09/2012 12:23:44 AM 1818 Views
The last word with me is rather difficult to obtain - 18/09/2012 02:48:03 PM 1361 Views
Don't try to argue with them. They've made their judgments. They are better than you. - 10/09/2012 09:36:17 PM 1397 Views
Defensive much? *NM* - 10/09/2012 10:31:17 PM 755 Views
He never said you couldn't enjoy it. - 10/09/2012 11:10:11 PM 1514 Views
Indeed - 10/09/2012 11:17:20 PM 1392 Views
But they aren't. - 10/09/2012 11:48:14 PM 1437 Views
Prove it. *NM* - 11/09/2012 03:12:17 AM 688 Views
He also went on to compare liking the books to having the standards of a nine-year-old. - 11/09/2012 02:34:18 AM 1387 Views
You didn't read what I said very well then - 11/09/2012 03:16:21 AM 1378 Views
I believe that they were not meant for adults. - 10/09/2012 12:30:05 AM 1399 Views
Basically, both get dubious kudos for trying something new by the dire standards of the day. - 10/09/2012 11:38:22 PM 1412 Views
Interesting point - 11/09/2012 12:41:01 AM 1376 Views
Are you aware of the game's alignment rules? Some of the novels struggle with this. - 12/09/2012 10:58:37 PM 1390 Views
Not aware of it at all until now - 12/09/2012 11:18:57 PM 1380 Views
How is that possible? - 12/09/2012 11:28:33 PM 1336 Views
My dad was (and is) influenced by Evangelicals - 13/09/2012 12:17:36 AM 1285 Views
Wait, so you didn't read the Chronicles first? - 13/09/2012 02:12:13 PM 1289 Views
No - 13/09/2012 02:18:03 PM 1362 Views
Well, it's sort of like starting Jordan at Lord of Chaos - 13/09/2012 05:18:23 PM 1352 Views
Oddly enough, I started WoT at CoS in November 1997 - 13/09/2012 05:56:04 PM 1311 Views
Chronicles is considerably weaker - 13/09/2012 11:14:38 PM 1385 Views
12 modules, not 15 - 14/09/2012 02:55:39 PM 1517 Views
These threads are so much better than the rape threads! *NM* - 12/09/2012 04:03:01 AM 786 Views
You're just waiting to see if I'll use hexameter in the next one *NM* - 12/09/2012 04:32:31 AM 624 Views
When do we get to see some alexandrines? *NM* - 12/09/2012 12:41:29 PM 709 Views
Or quatrains? - 12/09/2012 03:25:13 PM 1277 Views
At least you didn't read the Baldur's Gate novelizations - 14/09/2012 04:29:17 AM 1307 Views
Sssssh! - 14/09/2012 05:10:19 AM 1379 Views
People become lesbians for no reason! - 17/09/2012 04:34:20 PM 1232 Views
I think my IQ dropped further upon learning of this - 17/09/2012 06:29:29 PM 1280 Views
Baldurs Gate wooooo! - 14/09/2012 04:13:34 PM 1502 Views
Is the review dire because of the subject or the sonnet form? - 14/09/2012 04:24:37 PM 1415 Views
Both - 14/09/2012 04:36:59 PM 1318 Views
it would be unusual for someone to just randomly pick books like that up - 14/09/2012 05:05:37 PM 1650 Views
Interesting scenario - 14/09/2012 10:16:11 PM 1345 Views
Re: Interesting scenario - 15/09/2012 09:55:59 AM 1612 Views
Re: Interesting scenario - 17/09/2012 06:28:57 PM 1273 Views

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