I've had this discussion a few times with Camilla, not least when I extol the virtues of a Dan Brown novel as a well written book for it's audience. As long as the book tells a good story and the writing doesn't get in the way of that, job done, it's well written.
Literature students and snobs amuse me as much as artsy film snobs, who dont think a movie is worthwile unless it's a 4hours long, black and white, subtitled, film from the Czech Republic.
Literature students and snobs amuse me as much as artsy film snobs, who dont think a movie is worthwile unless it's a 4hours long, black and white, subtitled, film from the Czech Republic.
It fails because if one wants to reject a quantitative approach toward assessing prose quality, then one would have to also reject out of hand the notion of "good story" as being something that is defined by itself. Since the former (the prose)'s rejection would constitute a further rejection of anything other than a relativist approach, that in turn would lead to exceptions being made in order to try and slip out of the counter that if there is no real quantitative approach and if it is all relative, then there could be no cause to use pejoratives to denounce those who utilize their own judgment to assess the poorness of the work at hand.
Now assuming that you really meant that there was this ill-defined notion of "good story" as being like obscenity, which is "I know it when I see it," then the question arises of whether or not others may reject your evaluative tools as being insufficient. Here, like in civil law, judgment would weigh on "preponderance of evidence" and not solely on individual perceptions. Now I suppose I could quote examples from what I have read in the Legends trilogy in support of my assertion that the prose is subpar in comparison to other fictions originally intended for an age 10-16 audience and perhaps you could counter that with....with what?
Here's the crux. I'm willing to provide evidence from the text itself. Are you going to do more than just say "good story" without qualifying it?
Then there's another angle, one that I think is the easiest for all involved. For this approach, one can simply admit that based on communal "standards" (which have some leeway, but are not so flexible as to admit all things), there are writings that would be considered poor based on societal expectations of what constitutes "good writing," but yet due to other, perhaps more idiosyncratic individual values (primary of plot over theme/characterization/prose, particular theme at the expense of prose/characterization, etc.) there are elements that one can enjoy while admitting that for the majority, such a work would be "trashy" or "poor." That is what I would do when asked to explain why I enjoy watching professional wrestling
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie
Je suis méchant.
Je suis méchant.
This may be one of the most dire reviews you shall ever read
- 09/09/2012 09:12:25 PM
2318 Views
A review of a D&D bestiary could be more dire.
- 09/09/2012 11:29:17 PM
1411 Views
Perhaps
- 09/09/2012 11:50:20 PM
1508 Views
They are popular as they are fun, easy reading books
- 10/09/2012 12:11:24 AM
1494 Views
"Popular", "Fun," and "Easy" doesn't have to be equated with poorly-written
- 10/09/2012 12:16:27 AM
1729 Views
Poorly written by what standard?
- 10/09/2012 12:29:17 AM
1586 Views
By the standards of what I enjoyed as a nine year-old?
- 10/09/2012 01:04:12 AM
1527 Views
So like I said, by the standards of Elitist Literary Snobs
- 11/09/2012 12:03:08 AM
1601 Views
Nice attempt at sophistry, but alas, it fails
- 11/09/2012 12:38:24 AM
1553 Views
Was that meant to make any sense?
- 11/09/2012 01:43:13 AM
1741 Views
Re: Was that meant to make any sense?
- 11/09/2012 01:54:23 AM
1543 Views
I'm with Wibble on this (big surprise)
- 12/09/2012 03:07:53 PM
1626 Views
Heh.
- 12/09/2012 03:43:52 PM
1761 Views
Pretty much so
- 12/09/2012 04:19:35 PM
1721 Views
When did you put up that header?
- 12/09/2012 04:35:20 PM
1546 Views
I didn't put it up
- 12/09/2012 04:51:32 PM
1456 Views
I shall tread lightly so.
- 12/09/2012 06:15:51 PM
1571 Views
- 12/09/2012 07:25:29 PM
1416 Views
- 12/09/2012 07:25:29 PM
1416 Views
Re: Pretty much so
- 12/09/2012 08:50:57 PM
1578 Views
You apparently do not read my blog/reviews much
- 12/09/2012 09:07:18 PM
1599 Views
Actually, I read them almost never
- 13/09/2012 03:07:48 PM
1600 Views
I think my IQ dropped a little bit when I parsed what you said
- 13/09/2012 04:16:21 PM
1579 Views
Yep, your usual rebuttal... *NM*
- 17/09/2012 02:14:56 PM
792 Views
No, not really
- 17/09/2012 06:25:15 PM
1402 Views
Yes, Yes, wrap yourself in arrogance and declare yourself correct until your opposite gets bored...
- 17/09/2012 11:12:17 PM
1695 Views
Don't try to argue with them. They've made their judgments. They are better than you.
- 10/09/2012 09:36:17 PM
1519 Views
Defensive much?
*NM*
- 10/09/2012 10:31:17 PM
837 Views
*NM*
- 10/09/2012 10:31:17 PM
837 Views
Perhaps. It's annoying, because I tend to agree with you guys - you and Tom and Stephen.
- 11/09/2012 02:32:28 AM
1516 Views
The odd thing that there wasn't any belittling on my part -see other response. *NM*
- 11/09/2012 03:17:36 AM
752 Views
For the record, I wasn't trying to be condescending in my response.
- 11/09/2012 05:52:29 PM
1532 Views
He never said you couldn't enjoy it.
- 10/09/2012 11:10:11 PM
1649 Views
He also went on to compare liking the books to having the standards of a nine-year-old.
- 11/09/2012 02:34:18 AM
1510 Views
You didn't read what I said very well then
- 11/09/2012 03:16:21 AM
1504 Views
You're right. In the context of this thread, I'm basically acting like a raving lunatic.
- 11/09/2012 02:48:19 PM
1546 Views
It's not like any of us have ever been innocent 100% of the time
- 11/09/2012 03:49:22 PM
1523 Views
- 11/09/2012 03:49:22 PM
1523 Views
I believe that they were not meant for adults.
- 10/09/2012 12:30:05 AM
1527 Views
Very few of my friends were reading the books; some played the game, though
- 10/09/2012 01:06:07 AM
1501 Views
Basically, both get dubious kudos for trying something new by the dire standards of the day.
- 10/09/2012 11:38:22 PM
1569 Views
Interesting point
- 11/09/2012 12:41:01 AM
1504 Views
Are you aware of the game's alignment rules? Some of the novels struggle with this.
- 12/09/2012 10:58:37 PM
1569 Views
Not aware of it at all until now
- 12/09/2012 11:18:57 PM
1527 Views
How is that possible?
- 12/09/2012 11:28:33 PM
1487 Views
My dad was (and is) influenced by Evangelicals
- 13/09/2012 12:17:36 AM
1422 Views
Wait, so you didn't read the Chronicles first?
- 13/09/2012 02:12:13 PM
1422 Views
No
- 13/09/2012 02:18:03 PM
1484 Views
Chronicles is considerably weaker
- 13/09/2012 11:14:38 PM
1508 Views
Needless to say, once I finish reading the Icewind Dale trilogy, I'm done with D&D
- 14/09/2012 12:38:47 AM
1668 Views
- 14/09/2012 12:38:47 AM
1668 Views
These threads are so much better than the rape threads! *NM*
- 12/09/2012 04:03:01 AM
865 Views
You're just waiting to see if I'll use hexameter in the next one
*NM*
- 12/09/2012 04:32:31 AM
690 Views
*NM*
- 12/09/2012 04:32:31 AM
690 Views
And having now finished Dragonlance: Legends, its very own sonnet
- 13/09/2012 12:31:51 PM
1494 Views
- 13/09/2012 12:31:51 PM
1494 Views
At least you didn't read the Baldur's Gate novelizations
- 14/09/2012 04:29:17 AM
1446 Views
Sssssh!
- 14/09/2012 05:10:19 AM
1494 Views
Baldurs Gate wooooo!
- 14/09/2012 04:13:34 PM
1615 Views
Eh, Star Wars Expanded Universe I could see reading. Some of them are supposed to be good
- 17/09/2012 04:37:05 PM
1867 Views
Is the review dire because of the subject or the sonnet form?
- 14/09/2012 04:24:37 PM
1547 Views
Both
- 14/09/2012 04:36:59 PM
1473 Views
- 14/09/2012 04:36:59 PM
1473 Views
it would be unusual for someone to just randomly pick books like that up
- 14/09/2012 05:05:37 PM
1764 Views
Interesting scenario
- 14/09/2012 10:16:11 PM
1475 Views
