I've had this discussion a few times with Camilla, not least when I extol the virtues of a Dan Brown novel as a well written book for it's audience. As long as the book tells a good story and the writing doesn't get in the way of that, job done, it's well written.
Literature students and snobs amuse me as much as artsy film snobs, who dont think a movie is worthwile unless it's a 4hours long, black and white, subtitled, film from the Czech Republic.
Literature students and snobs amuse me as much as artsy film snobs, who dont think a movie is worthwile unless it's a 4hours long, black and white, subtitled, film from the Czech Republic.
It fails because if one wants to reject a quantitative approach toward assessing prose quality, then one would have to also reject out of hand the notion of "good story" as being something that is defined by itself. Since the former (the prose)'s rejection would constitute a further rejection of anything other than a relativist approach, that in turn would lead to exceptions being made in order to try and slip out of the counter that if there is no real quantitative approach and if it is all relative, then there could be no cause to use pejoratives to denounce those who utilize their own judgment to assess the poorness of the work at hand.
Now assuming that you really meant that there was this ill-defined notion of "good story" as being like obscenity, which is "I know it when I see it," then the question arises of whether or not others may reject your evaluative tools as being insufficient. Here, like in civil law, judgment would weigh on "preponderance of evidence" and not solely on individual perceptions. Now I suppose I could quote examples from what I have read in the Legends trilogy in support of my assertion that the prose is subpar in comparison to other fictions originally intended for an age 10-16 audience and perhaps you could counter that with....with what?
Here's the crux. I'm willing to provide evidence from the text itself. Are you going to do more than just say "good story" without qualifying it?
Then there's another angle, one that I think is the easiest for all involved. For this approach, one can simply admit that based on communal "standards" (which have some leeway, but are not so flexible as to admit all things), there are writings that would be considered poor based on societal expectations of what constitutes "good writing," but yet due to other, perhaps more idiosyncratic individual values (primary of plot over theme/characterization/prose, particular theme at the expense of prose/characterization, etc.) there are elements that one can enjoy while admitting that for the majority, such a work would be "trashy" or "poor." That is what I would do when asked to explain why I enjoy watching professional wrestling
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie
Je suis méchant.
Je suis méchant.
This may be one of the most dire reviews you shall ever read
- 09/09/2012 09:12:25 PM
2269 Views
A review of a D&D bestiary could be more dire.
- 09/09/2012 11:29:17 PM
1376 Views
Perhaps
- 09/09/2012 11:50:20 PM
1475 Views
They are popular as they are fun, easy reading books
- 10/09/2012 12:11:24 AM
1456 Views
"Popular", "Fun," and "Easy" doesn't have to be equated with poorly-written
- 10/09/2012 12:16:27 AM
1618 Views
Poorly written by what standard?
- 10/09/2012 12:29:17 AM
1552 Views
By the standards of what I enjoyed as a nine year-old?
- 10/09/2012 01:04:12 AM
1508 Views
So like I said, by the standards of Elitist Literary Snobs
- 11/09/2012 12:03:08 AM
1576 Views
Nice attempt at sophistry, but alas, it fails
- 11/09/2012 12:38:24 AM
1511 Views
Was that meant to make any sense?
- 11/09/2012 01:43:13 AM
1657 Views
Re: Was that meant to make any sense?
- 11/09/2012 01:54:23 AM
1509 Views
I'm with Wibble on this (big surprise)
- 12/09/2012 03:07:53 PM
1592 Views
Heh.
- 12/09/2012 03:43:52 PM
1723 Views
Pretty much so
- 12/09/2012 04:19:35 PM
1636 Views
When did you put up that header?
- 12/09/2012 04:35:20 PM
1504 Views
I didn't put it up
- 12/09/2012 04:51:32 PM
1417 Views
I shall tread lightly so.
- 12/09/2012 06:15:51 PM
1542 Views
- 12/09/2012 07:25:29 PM
1386 Views
- 12/09/2012 07:25:29 PM
1386 Views
Re: Pretty much so
- 12/09/2012 08:50:57 PM
1542 Views
You apparently do not read my blog/reviews much
- 12/09/2012 09:07:18 PM
1558 Views
Actually, I read them almost never
- 13/09/2012 03:07:48 PM
1571 Views
I think my IQ dropped a little bit when I parsed what you said
- 13/09/2012 04:16:21 PM
1541 Views
Yep, your usual rebuttal... *NM*
- 17/09/2012 02:14:56 PM
771 Views
No, not really
- 17/09/2012 06:25:15 PM
1360 Views
Yes, Yes, wrap yourself in arrogance and declare yourself correct until your opposite gets bored...
- 17/09/2012 11:12:17 PM
1658 Views
Don't try to argue with them. They've made their judgments. They are better than you.
- 10/09/2012 09:36:17 PM
1487 Views
Defensive much?
*NM*
- 10/09/2012 10:31:17 PM
818 Views
*NM*
- 10/09/2012 10:31:17 PM
818 Views
Perhaps. It's annoying, because I tend to agree with you guys - you and Tom and Stephen.
- 11/09/2012 02:32:28 AM
1484 Views
The odd thing that there wasn't any belittling on my part -see other response. *NM*
- 11/09/2012 03:17:36 AM
738 Views
For the record, I wasn't trying to be condescending in my response.
- 11/09/2012 05:52:29 PM
1502 Views
He never said you couldn't enjoy it.
- 10/09/2012 11:10:11 PM
1614 Views
He also went on to compare liking the books to having the standards of a nine-year-old.
- 11/09/2012 02:34:18 AM
1475 Views
You didn't read what I said very well then
- 11/09/2012 03:16:21 AM
1461 Views
You're right. In the context of this thread, I'm basically acting like a raving lunatic.
- 11/09/2012 02:48:19 PM
1512 Views
It's not like any of us have ever been innocent 100% of the time
- 11/09/2012 03:49:22 PM
1456 Views
- 11/09/2012 03:49:22 PM
1456 Views
I believe that they were not meant for adults.
- 10/09/2012 12:30:05 AM
1491 Views
Very few of my friends were reading the books; some played the game, though
- 10/09/2012 01:06:07 AM
1471 Views
Basically, both get dubious kudos for trying something new by the dire standards of the day.
- 10/09/2012 11:38:22 PM
1524 Views
Interesting point
- 11/09/2012 12:41:01 AM
1462 Views
Are you aware of the game's alignment rules? Some of the novels struggle with this.
- 12/09/2012 10:58:37 PM
1524 Views
Not aware of it at all until now
- 12/09/2012 11:18:57 PM
1489 Views
How is that possible?
- 12/09/2012 11:28:33 PM
1445 Views
My dad was (and is) influenced by Evangelicals
- 13/09/2012 12:17:36 AM
1388 Views
Wait, so you didn't read the Chronicles first?
- 13/09/2012 02:12:13 PM
1387 Views
No
- 13/09/2012 02:18:03 PM
1443 Views
Chronicles is considerably weaker
- 13/09/2012 11:14:38 PM
1479 Views
Needless to say, once I finish reading the Icewind Dale trilogy, I'm done with D&D
- 14/09/2012 12:38:47 AM
1634 Views
- 14/09/2012 12:38:47 AM
1634 Views
These threads are so much better than the rape threads! *NM*
- 12/09/2012 04:03:01 AM
845 Views
You're just waiting to see if I'll use hexameter in the next one
*NM*
- 12/09/2012 04:32:31 AM
669 Views
*NM*
- 12/09/2012 04:32:31 AM
669 Views
And having now finished Dragonlance: Legends, its very own sonnet
- 13/09/2012 12:31:51 PM
1466 Views
- 13/09/2012 12:31:51 PM
1466 Views
At least you didn't read the Baldur's Gate novelizations
- 14/09/2012 04:29:17 AM
1405 Views
Sssssh!
- 14/09/2012 05:10:19 AM
1466 Views
Baldurs Gate wooooo!
- 14/09/2012 04:13:34 PM
1584 Views
Eh, Star Wars Expanded Universe I could see reading. Some of them are supposed to be good
- 17/09/2012 04:37:05 PM
1832 Views
Is the review dire because of the subject or the sonnet form?
- 14/09/2012 04:24:37 PM
1516 Views
Both
- 14/09/2012 04:36:59 PM
1440 Views
- 14/09/2012 04:36:59 PM
1440 Views
it would be unusual for someone to just randomly pick books like that up
- 14/09/2012 05:05:37 PM
1742 Views
Interesting scenario
- 14/09/2012 10:16:11 PM
1429 Views
