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I'm a bit different than that Larry Send a noteboard - 06/12/2009 09:20:09 PM
to claim that books are "fantasy" when they're rather firmly established as something else. Considering that I've seen this come from a lot of people who aren't very fond of genres, I think a reasonable conclusion to draw is that they're attempting to "legitimize" the genre of fantasy by taking "respectable" books and labeling them fantasy. It's a way of both attacking the genre system and getting "credibility" for the sort of books you read/write. Absalom, Absalom! just is not fantasy. It's Southern Gothic, which in some cases can overlap with fantasy, but Faulkner was not a fantasy writer. Calling him a "magical-realist" renders the phrase meaningless. If someone were going to use the much wider "speculative fiction" label (which is, as I have argued countless times before on these boards, an attempt at gaining "credibility" ), then putting Faulkner in that camp wouldn't be a problem. Same for things like the Odyssey; it's simply not fantasy. Tom wrote an excellent post in his "Defense of Other Fiction" thread on why epics by definition can't be fantasy. I'm hesitant to call The Once and Future King fantasy, since it's almost purely a retelling of the Matter of Britain, but I guess I can go with it on the grounds that White was well aware he was writing unreal things.


On a completely different note, I've very surprised there's only one Gaiman book on that list.



I see all fiction, all non-fiction, all forms of cultural interaction to be nothing more than aspects of a society's material culture. I've been busy writing a series of essays on the OF Blog and elsewhere on "International SF," with the ultimate intent to raise questions about how story structures transfer from society to society.

You differentiate "Southern Gothic" from a presumed "Fantasy," when I would rather be curious to see how elements of each have influenced the other. I suspect with the authors of this compiled list of suggestions, the intents were more to explore commonalities of narrative approach than trying to define anything. I suspect much of the "failure" here for many responding would do more with a resistance to abandoning (or altering at the very least) pre-conceived notions of literary taxonomy than with any real reaction to the qualities of the stories themselves. Having read around a quarter of the books listed, the quality for the most part is very good. There just aren't going to be uniform qualities in a grouping that is meant to be heterogeneous.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Since people are weighing in on that best fantasy list I posted, how many on this list have ya read? - 06/12/2009 05:22:40 AM 2282 Views
A lot of those books aren't fantasy. - 06/12/2009 05:34:18 AM 817 Views
Most of those depend upon how loosely one defines it - 06/12/2009 06:41:50 AM 793 Views
Up next, fantasy fans attempt to co-opt Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot. *NM* - 06/12/2009 07:20:03 AM 252 Views
Actually, considering who put that list together, I'd at least look into their rationales - 06/12/2009 07:42:11 AM 723 Views
Mmm... there's been a pronounced tendency among spec ficcers, from what I've seen, - 06/12/2009 09:09:26 AM 969 Views
I agree - 06/12/2009 09:35:32 AM 715 Views
I'm a bit different than that - 06/12/2009 09:20:09 PM 779 Views
Re: I'm a bit different than that - 07/12/2009 02:04:47 AM 825 Views
Then what should it be defined as? - 07/12/2009 02:28:55 AM 866 Views
What, didn't you major in Fixing Up Confusions and other Issues? - 07/12/2009 02:49:30 AM 557 Views
I majored in raising more questions and doubting absolutes - 07/12/2009 02:50:35 AM 683 Views
You majored in being a pain in the butt is what you majored in. - 07/12/2009 02:52:00 AM 730 Views
No, that was my second minor - 07/12/2009 02:54:53 AM 645 Views
In that case, I trust my definition more than theirs. - 07/12/2009 03:05:32 AM 710 Views
Re: I majored in raising more questions and doubting absolutes - 08/12/2009 10:59:03 PM 754 Views
Not really - 08/12/2009 11:19:46 PM 1055 Views
Fantasy has no easy definition. - 07/12/2009 02:46:33 AM 771 Views
That's true. - 07/12/2009 02:50:37 AM 730 Views
But the Song of Soloman is certainly akin to that *NM* - 07/12/2009 02:51:21 AM 245 Views
No, that's just porn. *NM* - 07/12/2009 02:52:24 AM 344 Views
If you redefine fatasy as fiction, the category loses its value - 06/12/2009 12:33:03 PM 753 Views
Remember what I studied for my grad degree - 06/12/2009 04:10:08 PM 765 Views
Re: Remember what I studied for my grad degree - 06/12/2009 04:33:58 PM 774 Views
Really? - 06/12/2009 09:22:21 PM 892 Views
Re: Really? - 06/12/2009 10:49:36 PM 847 Views
Literature does not exist in a vacuum - 06/12/2009 10:53:58 PM 554 Views
Obviously I know that - 06/12/2009 11:30:55 PM 715 Views
But it is a material artifact of a culture - 07/12/2009 12:47:45 AM 623 Views
But that is not all it is. - 07/12/2009 08:16:32 AM 818 Views
Indeed. A lot of them are science fiction. - 06/12/2009 04:32:26 PM 738 Views
Re: Indeed. A lot of them are science fiction. - 06/12/2009 05:01:55 PM 634 Views
Several dozen contributed to the suggestion list - 06/12/2009 09:23:21 PM 554 Views
I've read 34. - 06/12/2009 10:53:38 AM 615 Views
78 that I have finished, but that is really not the point. - 06/12/2009 11:55:16 AM 765 Views
Definitions of "fantasy" vary considerably - 06/12/2009 09:25:35 PM 712 Views
According to the one you just applied, my master's thesis was one... - 06/12/2009 10:47:25 PM 630 Views
It's just a state of mind, I suppose - 07/12/2009 12:50:22 AM 734 Views
Re: It's just a state of mind, I suppose - 07/12/2009 08:17:09 AM 764 Views
I've read 28. - 06/12/2009 03:42:40 PM 812 Views
89... but in general, that is many by the same author. - 06/12/2009 06:17:06 PM 622 Views
46. This is an idiotic list. A Confederacy of Dunces just IS NOT fantasy. - 06/12/2009 08:34:07 PM 843 Views
You say that, based on having read maybe 2% of the list? - 06/12/2009 09:27:32 PM 550 Views
Jane Eyre? - 07/12/2009 12:00:36 AM 695 Views
It plays upon the Gothic novel precepts - 07/12/2009 12:51:31 AM 581 Views
Larry...come on...if it's Fantasy I have a bridge in Brooklyn for you to buy - 07/12/2009 04:17:38 AM 749 Views
Devise a better? - 07/12/2009 04:34:46 AM 665 Views
It would be much shorter - 07/12/2009 02:20:05 PM 930 Views
It should be shorter than some of the ones you listed - 08/12/2009 11:26:35 PM 673 Views
Argh. Your quoting skills need work. *NM* - 09/12/2009 08:58:15 AM 353 Views
You seem to be misunderstanding Tom's post. - 09/12/2009 10:57:08 AM 686 Views
No,I was just just commenting on my likes/dislikes of that list - 09/12/2009 01:21:45 PM 818 Views
I think you are misunderstanding again... - 09/12/2009 01:46:49 PM 790 Views
Yes. What Jonte said. *NM* - 09/12/2009 02:41:41 PM 370 Views
Oh,that - 09/12/2009 06:07:11 PM 866 Views
Re: It should be shorter than some of the ones you listed - 21/12/2009 09:35:11 AM 1076 Views
I read it very recently. He masturbates to a dog. Fetishes != fantasy. - 07/12/2009 01:58:57 AM 596 Views
Like I said, it's been years for me - 07/12/2009 02:30:58 AM 799 Views
No worries. That one just got me a little testy. - 07/12/2009 02:48:01 AM 690 Views
I've read about 90 of them - 18/12/2009 03:37:49 PM 955 Views

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