to claim that books are "fantasy" when they're rather firmly established as something else. Considering that I've seen this come from a lot of people who aren't very fond of genres, I think a reasonable conclusion to draw is that they're attempting to "legitimize" the genre of fantasy by taking "respectable" books and labeling them fantasy. It's a way of both attacking the genre system and getting "credibility" for the sort of books you read/write. Absalom, Absalom! just is not fantasy. It's Southern Gothic, which in some cases can overlap with fantasy, but Faulkner was not a fantasy writer. Calling him a "magical-realist" renders the phrase meaningless. If someone were going to use the much wider "speculative fiction" label (which is, as I have argued countless times before on these boards, an attempt at gaining "credibility" ), then putting Faulkner in that camp wouldn't be a problem. Same for things like the Odyssey; it's simply not fantasy. Tom wrote an excellent post in his "Defense of Other Fiction" thread on why epics by definition can't be fantasy. I'm hesitant to call The Once and Future King fantasy, since it's almost purely a retelling of the Matter of Britain, but I guess I can go with it on the grounds that White was well aware he was writing unreal things.
On a completely different note, I've very surprised there's only one Gaiman book on that list.
On a completely different note, I've very surprised there's only one Gaiman book on that list.
I see all fiction, all non-fiction, all forms of cultural interaction to be nothing more than aspects of a society's material culture. I've been busy writing a series of essays on the OF Blog and elsewhere on "International SF," with the ultimate intent to raise questions about how story structures transfer from society to society.
You differentiate "Southern Gothic" from a presumed "Fantasy," when I would rather be curious to see how elements of each have influenced the other. I suspect with the authors of this compiled list of suggestions, the intents were more to explore commonalities of narrative approach than trying to define anything. I suspect much of the "failure" here for many responding would do more with a resistance to abandoning (or altering at the very least) pre-conceived notions of literary taxonomy than with any real reaction to the qualities of the stories themselves. Having read around a quarter of the books listed, the quality for the most part is very good. There just aren't going to be uniform qualities in a grouping that is meant to be heterogeneous.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie
Je suis méchant.
Je suis méchant.
Since people are weighing in on that best fantasy list I posted, how many on this list have ya read?
06/12/2009 05:22:40 AM
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A lot of those books aren't fantasy.
06/12/2009 05:34:18 AM
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Most of those depend upon how loosely one defines it
06/12/2009 06:41:50 AM
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Up next, fantasy fans attempt to co-opt Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot. *NM*
06/12/2009 07:20:03 AM
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Actually, considering who put that list together, I'd at least look into their rationales
06/12/2009 07:42:11 AM
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Mmm... there's been a pronounced tendency among spec ficcers, from what I've seen,
06/12/2009 09:09:26 AM
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I'm a bit different than that
06/12/2009 09:20:09 PM
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Re: I'm a bit different than that
07/12/2009 02:04:47 AM
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Then what should it be defined as?
07/12/2009 02:28:55 AM
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What, didn't you major in Fixing Up Confusions and other Issues?
07/12/2009 02:49:30 AM
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I majored in raising more questions and doubting absolutes
07/12/2009 02:50:35 AM
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You majored in being a pain in the butt is what you majored in.
07/12/2009 02:52:00 AM
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Fantasy has no easy definition.
07/12/2009 02:46:33 AM
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That's true.
07/12/2009 02:50:37 AM
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If you redefine fatasy as fiction, the category loses its value
06/12/2009 12:33:03 PM
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Remember what I studied for my grad degree
06/12/2009 04:10:08 PM
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Re: Remember what I studied for my grad degree
06/12/2009 04:33:58 PM
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Really?
06/12/2009 09:22:21 PM
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Re: Really?
06/12/2009 10:49:36 PM
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Literature does not exist in a vacuum
06/12/2009 10:53:58 PM
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Obviously I know that
06/12/2009 11:30:55 PM
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I've read 34.
06/12/2009 10:53:38 AM
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Well, when individual preferences affect listings, such things happen, I guess
06/12/2009 09:24:39 PM
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78 that I have finished, but that is really not the point.
06/12/2009 11:55:16 AM
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Definitions of "fantasy" vary considerably
06/12/2009 09:25:35 PM
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According to the one you just applied, my master's thesis was one...
06/12/2009 10:47:25 PM
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46. This is an idiotic list. A Confederacy of Dunces just IS NOT fantasy.
06/12/2009 08:34:07 PM
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You say that, based on having read maybe 2% of the list?
06/12/2009 09:27:32 PM
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Jane Eyre?
07/12/2009 12:00:36 AM
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It plays upon the Gothic novel precepts
07/12/2009 12:51:31 AM
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Larry...come on...if it's Fantasy I have a bridge in Brooklyn for you to buy
07/12/2009 04:17:38 AM
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Devise a better?
07/12/2009 04:34:46 AM
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It would be much shorter
07/12/2009 02:20:05 PM
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It should be shorter than some of the ones you listed
08/12/2009 11:26:35 PM
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You seem to be misunderstanding Tom's post.
09/12/2009 10:57:08 AM
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No,I was just just commenting on my likes/dislikes of that list
09/12/2009 01:21:45 PM
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I read it very recently. He masturbates to a dog. Fetishes != fantasy.
07/12/2009 01:58:57 AM
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96... but so many books are missing that i can think of... i mean, really!
07/12/2009 02:07:18 AM
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It's an interesting experiment of a list, miki, and I think it's little more than that
07/12/2009 02:29:56 AM
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It would be a more interesting list if it contained more books that fantasy fans would want to read
30/12/2009 06:35:18 PM
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