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I'm a bit different than that Larry Send a noteboard - 06/12/2009 09:20:09 PM
to claim that books are "fantasy" when they're rather firmly established as something else. Considering that I've seen this come from a lot of people who aren't very fond of genres, I think a reasonable conclusion to draw is that they're attempting to "legitimize" the genre of fantasy by taking "respectable" books and labeling them fantasy. It's a way of both attacking the genre system and getting "credibility" for the sort of books you read/write. Absalom, Absalom! just is not fantasy. It's Southern Gothic, which in some cases can overlap with fantasy, but Faulkner was not a fantasy writer. Calling him a "magical-realist" renders the phrase meaningless. If someone were going to use the much wider "speculative fiction" label (which is, as I have argued countless times before on these boards, an attempt at gaining "credibility" ), then putting Faulkner in that camp wouldn't be a problem. Same for things like the Odyssey; it's simply not fantasy. Tom wrote an excellent post in his "Defense of Other Fiction" thread on why epics by definition can't be fantasy. I'm hesitant to call The Once and Future King fantasy, since it's almost purely a retelling of the Matter of Britain, but I guess I can go with it on the grounds that White was well aware he was writing unreal things.


On a completely different note, I've very surprised there's only one Gaiman book on that list.



I see all fiction, all non-fiction, all forms of cultural interaction to be nothing more than aspects of a society's material culture. I've been busy writing a series of essays on the OF Blog and elsewhere on "International SF," with the ultimate intent to raise questions about how story structures transfer from society to society.

You differentiate "Southern Gothic" from a presumed "Fantasy," when I would rather be curious to see how elements of each have influenced the other. I suspect with the authors of this compiled list of suggestions, the intents were more to explore commonalities of narrative approach than trying to define anything. I suspect much of the "failure" here for many responding would do more with a resistance to abandoning (or altering at the very least) pre-conceived notions of literary taxonomy than with any real reaction to the qualities of the stories themselves. Having read around a quarter of the books listed, the quality for the most part is very good. There just aren't going to be uniform qualities in a grouping that is meant to be heterogeneous.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Since people are weighing in on that best fantasy list I posted, how many on this list have ya read? - 06/12/2009 05:22:40 AM 2183 Views
A lot of those books aren't fantasy. - 06/12/2009 05:34:18 AM 725 Views
Most of those depend upon how loosely one defines it - 06/12/2009 06:41:50 AM 695 Views
Up next, fantasy fans attempt to co-opt Carl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot. *NM* - 06/12/2009 07:20:03 AM 211 Views
Actually, considering who put that list together, I'd at least look into their rationales - 06/12/2009 07:42:11 AM 629 Views
Mmm... there's been a pronounced tendency among spec ficcers, from what I've seen, - 06/12/2009 09:09:26 AM 862 Views
I agree - 06/12/2009 09:35:32 AM 619 Views
I'm a bit different than that - 06/12/2009 09:20:09 PM 676 Views
Re: I'm a bit different than that - 07/12/2009 02:04:47 AM 695 Views
Then what should it be defined as? - 07/12/2009 02:28:55 AM 769 Views
What, didn't you major in Fixing Up Confusions and other Issues? - 07/12/2009 02:49:30 AM 462 Views
I majored in raising more questions and doubting absolutes - 07/12/2009 02:50:35 AM 584 Views
You majored in being a pain in the butt is what you majored in. - 07/12/2009 02:52:00 AM 614 Views
No, that was my second minor - 07/12/2009 02:54:53 AM 551 Views
In that case, I trust my definition more than theirs. - 07/12/2009 03:05:32 AM 596 Views
Re: I majored in raising more questions and doubting absolutes - 08/12/2009 10:59:03 PM 659 Views
Not really - 08/12/2009 11:19:46 PM 917 Views
Fantasy has no easy definition. - 07/12/2009 02:46:33 AM 674 Views
That's true. - 07/12/2009 02:50:37 AM 632 Views
But the Song of Soloman is certainly akin to that *NM* - 07/12/2009 02:51:21 AM 204 Views
No, that's just porn. *NM* - 07/12/2009 02:52:24 AM 300 Views
If you redefine fatasy as fiction, the category loses its value - 06/12/2009 12:33:03 PM 651 Views
Remember what I studied for my grad degree - 06/12/2009 04:10:08 PM 667 Views
Re: Remember what I studied for my grad degree - 06/12/2009 04:33:58 PM 677 Views
Really? - 06/12/2009 09:22:21 PM 799 Views
Re: Really? - 06/12/2009 10:49:36 PM 745 Views
Literature does not exist in a vacuum - 06/12/2009 10:53:58 PM 456 Views
Obviously I know that - 06/12/2009 11:30:55 PM 615 Views
But it is a material artifact of a culture - 07/12/2009 12:47:45 AM 526 Views
But that is not all it is. - 07/12/2009 08:16:32 AM 722 Views
Indeed. A lot of them are science fiction. - 06/12/2009 04:32:26 PM 635 Views
Re: Indeed. A lot of them are science fiction. - 06/12/2009 05:01:55 PM 532 Views
Several dozen contributed to the suggestion list - 06/12/2009 09:23:21 PM 457 Views
I've read 34. - 06/12/2009 10:53:38 AM 516 Views
78 that I have finished, but that is really not the point. - 06/12/2009 11:55:16 AM 668 Views
Definitions of "fantasy" vary considerably - 06/12/2009 09:25:35 PM 606 Views
According to the one you just applied, my master's thesis was one... - 06/12/2009 10:47:25 PM 535 Views
It's just a state of mind, I suppose - 07/12/2009 12:50:22 AM 630 Views
Re: It's just a state of mind, I suppose - 07/12/2009 08:17:09 AM 664 Views
I've read 28. - 06/12/2009 03:42:40 PM 709 Views
89... but in general, that is many by the same author. - 06/12/2009 06:17:06 PM 525 Views
46. This is an idiotic list. A Confederacy of Dunces just IS NOT fantasy. - 06/12/2009 08:34:07 PM 749 Views
You say that, based on having read maybe 2% of the list? - 06/12/2009 09:27:32 PM 452 Views
Jane Eyre? - 07/12/2009 12:00:36 AM 599 Views
It plays upon the Gothic novel precepts - 07/12/2009 12:51:31 AM 471 Views
Larry...come on...if it's Fantasy I have a bridge in Brooklyn for you to buy - 07/12/2009 04:17:38 AM 650 Views
Devise a better? - 07/12/2009 04:34:46 AM 560 Views
It would be much shorter - 07/12/2009 02:20:05 PM 834 Views
It should be shorter than some of the ones you listed - 08/12/2009 11:26:35 PM 583 Views
Argh. Your quoting skills need work. *NM* - 09/12/2009 08:58:15 AM 313 Views
You seem to be misunderstanding Tom's post. - 09/12/2009 10:57:08 AM 591 Views
No,I was just just commenting on my likes/dislikes of that list - 09/12/2009 01:21:45 PM 698 Views
I think you are misunderstanding again... - 09/12/2009 01:46:49 PM 697 Views
Yes. What Jonte said. *NM* - 09/12/2009 02:41:41 PM 328 Views
Oh,that - 09/12/2009 06:07:11 PM 767 Views
Re: It should be shorter than some of the ones you listed - 21/12/2009 09:35:11 AM 979 Views
I read it very recently. He masturbates to a dog. Fetishes != fantasy. - 07/12/2009 01:58:57 AM 496 Views
Like I said, it's been years for me - 07/12/2009 02:30:58 AM 700 Views
No worries. That one just got me a little testy. - 07/12/2009 02:48:01 AM 593 Views
I've read about 90 of them - 18/12/2009 03:37:49 PM 850 Views

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