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Look at Camilla's post directly below. Tom Send a noteboard - 20/05/2010 07:49:03 PM
One "holds the fort", not "holds down the fort".
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already Tom - 20/05/2010 04:16:29 PM 984 Views
It isn't something I can recall really noticing snoopcester - 20/05/2010 04:22:42 PM 192 Views
You don't live in the United States of America. Tom - 20/05/2010 04:31:23 PM 174 Views
Well yes but me was just feeling smug it doesn't seem as common over here snoopcester - 20/05/2010 05:12:41 PM 156 Views
Re: You don't live in the United States of America. Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:35:34 PM 163 Views
I think this is one of those things people do because they think it makes them sound smart. Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:33:38 PM 204 Views
When in actuality it exposese their stupidity and ignorance. *NM* Tom - 20/05/2010 04:36:08 PM 102 Views
Like saying "octopi". <Shivers> *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:56:27 PM 200 Views
Octopodes makes them sounds like aliens LadyLorraine - 21/05/2010 12:25:14 AM 290 Views
THEY ARE VICIOUS CREATURES FROM THE DEEP. CUTTLEFISH HAVE W SHAPED PUPILS. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:00:41 AM 195 Views
Actually nothing like that Sareitha Sedai - 21/05/2010 04:49:43 PM 148 Views
Yeah, I've never had a problem with that one. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:45:38 PM 210 Views
As a Classicist I'm afraid I can't get past the misguided origins. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 10:08:34 PM 202 Views
I don't know how me feels about this. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:49:03 PM 197 Views
This makes me want cookies. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:50:34 PM 203 Views
I was thinking about him when I wrote it. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:55:04 PM 166 Views
*NM* Avendesora - 20/05/2010 05:55:32 PM 80 Views
you know, considering my state was THE lowest in the country for education... LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 05:04:42 PM 206 Views
Dude, I could care less *NM* Monkey - 20/05/2010 05:30:37 PM 186 Views
*cough* move along... ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:16:18 PM 183 Views
That annoys me, too Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:34:30 PM 316 Views
I think you're confusing it with phrase-final prepositions. *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:57:30 PM 193 Views
No Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:00:02 AM 147 Views
Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:03:59 AM 369 Views
Re: Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:06:51 AM 388 Views
Er, no... Tim - 21/05/2010 12:19:31 AM 150 Views
Re: Er, no... Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:22:32 AM 153 Views
It doesn't. The reason for that is exactly as Tom says: idiotic teachers. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:28:12 AM 187 Views
But that is what I said when you contradicted me! *NM* Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:38:11 AM 197 Views
OK, I'm officially lost. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:28 AM 168 Views
Re: OK, I'm officially lost. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:49:59 AM 345 Views
Can you start right from the beginning? Tim - 21/05/2010 12:52:08 AM 159 Views
Re: Can you start right from the beginning? Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:55:34 AM 155 Views
Please let me know when you sort this out. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:26:50 AM 143 Views
Sorted Camilla - 22/05/2010 03:06:53 AM 355 Views
Coffee time is going to be appropriated by grammar discussion? Shall I bring a book? *NM* Rebekah - 21/05/2010 10:12:48 AM 190 Views
Not entirely. We just need to get a hold of Pratchett's Unseen Academicals on the way. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:25:57 AM 136 Views
This whole thread is just an elaborate effort to provoke my complaints about terminal prepositions. Joel - 21/05/2010 02:58:05 PM 274 Views
Ah, I think I've found the problem Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:50:59 AM 197 Views
Re: Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:28:16 PM 265 Views
Look at Camilla's post directly below. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:49:03 PM 185 Views
Well, the same problem appears in Swedish to some extent. jh - 20/05/2010 07:28:32 PM 405 Views
It doesn't annoy me, but I do fine myself silently correcting it when I hear it. Beqi - 20/05/2010 07:44:49 PM 169 Views
It's the same as "I" vs. "me". "Who" can only be a subject. "Whom" is correct everywhere else. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:47:21 PM 370 Views
That's where I get into trouble. Joel - 21/05/2010 03:01:18 PM 343 Views
Along these lines Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 08:52:33 PM 356 Views
Well, shucks, Tom, we just ain't no good at that there grammer stuff. LiterateDog - 20/05/2010 07:49:18 PM 182 Views
And we're all unique little snowflakes. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:20:03 PM 169 Views
hollah that, brutha. *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 08:41:03 PM 188 Views
You mean grammir. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 20/05/2010 09:41:55 PM 225 Views
Not limited to the US of A. Rebekah - 20/05/2010 08:26:30 PM 356 Views
It's properly the "US and A" - if Borat taught me nothing else, it's that. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:46:18 PM 153 Views
If you're going to start down that path... Legolas - 20/05/2010 10:12:24 PM 174 Views
Personally Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 11:30:54 PM 136 Views
<Winces at your use of the word "ungrammatical"> *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:09:29 AM 210 Views
I take it the wincing is at the concept, and not at the word itself... Legolas - 21/05/2010 12:32:43 AM 358 Views
It's the misappropriation of linguistic terminology to an improper use. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:54 AM 393 Views
I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:12:05 AM 270 Views
Re: I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Tim - 23/05/2010 01:36:10 PM 335 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 23/05/2010 01:58:58 PM 138 Views
Well of course that's wrong. It ought to be "The man whom you said that was coming." *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:03:37 AM 71 Views
OK, I know you're kidding around, but I can't tell if you know it isn't even prescriptively correct. Tim - 21/05/2010 10:38:51 AM 141 Views
<chant> Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:52:17 AM 143 Views
I can't draw you a syntax tree or what have you to prove that it's wrong, no, but I know it is. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 02:56:52 AM 140 Views
No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 22/05/2010 10:04:34 AM 330 Views
Clever clever. Explains why Greek changes the case in its indirect statements so much. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:47:26 PM 74 Views
Example please? *NM* Tim - 22/05/2010 10:34:05 PM 195 Views
Yeah, I worded that awkwardly. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:30:49 AM 136 Views
Ah, I see that I misread your subject line. Tim - 23/05/2010 01:17:28 PM 341 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 22/05/2010 11:40:05 PM 251 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 23/05/2010 10:30:59 AM 141 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 23/05/2010 10:36:25 AM 259 Views
Why = what for? That's amazing! *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:22:35 PM 75 Views
Cf pretty much every other European language, no? Legolas - 23/05/2010 09:32:33 PM 121 Views
Yes, but when you're a native speaker of English it comes as something of a surprise. Tim - 23/05/2010 11:18:45 PM 132 Views
The thing is that you really have to know Old English to figure it out. Ghavrel - 24/05/2010 03:22:10 AM 133 Views
Actually, that would be a direct object Larry - 21/05/2010 01:11:42 AM 143 Views
*blinks* Now I'm confused. Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:21:51 AM 133 Views
I know it's odd, but in terse responses, it seems to be a direct object rather than nominative Larry - 21/05/2010 01:46:10 AM 140 Views
No it isn't...in that case it would be "me", and not "a cookie", that is wanted. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:28:55 AM 142 Views
Well... Larry - 21/05/2010 04:33:27 AM 340 Views
"I want me a cookie" is not proper English. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:38:20 AM 334 Views
I know that Larry - 21/05/2010 05:31:52 AM 260 Views
See, this is an area where your dialect argument would make sense. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:53:17 AM 255 Views
But that doesn't actually make any sense in Latin. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 03:03:28 AM 143 Views
I know it's dative in Latin Larry - 22/05/2010 03:14:48 AM 339 Views
Well, yes. But prepositions are how we decline our pronouns in English. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 04:35:42 AM 122 Views
And you would be wrong in that. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:27:16 PM 142 Views
Iċ am not sure what þū said me is relevant these days... Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:57:41 PM 126 Views
You still just aren't getting this. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:52:31 AM 126 Views
I accept it. But not in the circumstances when the prepositional phrase "to/for me" is used. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:27:30 AM 73 Views
Technically, most prepositions in English take the dative. Tom - 23/05/2010 02:31:06 AM 9289 Views
Huh. That makes sense. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:32:57 AM 65 Views
You're confusing me almost as much as Larry. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:15:43 AM 324 Views
True. But English uses the reflexive in that scenario, not the personal pronoun. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:05:30 PM 151 Views
That was atrocious Latin. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:20:35 PM 327 Views
I was very drunk, and it wasn't that bad even had I been sober. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:04:12 PM 268 Views
Parare means, first and foremost, to prepare, supply or make something available. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:50:22 AM 261 Views
It also means to buy, and it frequently has that meaning when it's with the dative. No dice. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:31:01 AM 272 Views
Now you're pulling things out of your ass (about parare, at least) Tom - 23/05/2010 02:32:58 AM 135 Views
I unfortunately don't have the OLD, and no, I'm not. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:41:22 AM 168 Views
So I looked up the word in Lewis & Short. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:49:19 AM 138 Views
Interestingly enough, the Oxford Latin Dictionary doesn't have one use of the dative for "to buy". Tom - 23/05/2010 02:51:54 PM 336 Views
Hm. I guess I have to concede defeat in this, then. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:21:29 PM 142 Views
When asked who told him that killing was wrong, Johnny Five said "I told me." TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:52:15 PM 139 Views
Yes, yes I am. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 10:14:16 PM 68 Views
C'est moi. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:34:41 AM 337 Views
One additional thought. everynametaken - 22/05/2010 02:14:15 AM 274 Views
Let me clarify. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:32:25 AM 132 Views
Please don;t misunderstand what I posted as beng preachy. everynametaken - 23/05/2010 11:12:43 PM 131 Views
in my elementary school grammar classes... damookster - 21/05/2010 04:44:50 AM 165 Views
I'm unaware of any exceptions. It's a very good rule. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:04:23 AM 67 Views
You clearly had an unusually good teacher. That's exactly what should be taught. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:00:58 PM 142 Views
That is what I was taught... Dominic - 21/05/2010 02:28:40 PM 392 Views
Same. TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:54:10 PM 125 Views
I was taught the same. *NM* Gena - 24/05/2010 02:24:41 PM 217 Views
Seriously dudes? 70 posts about fricking grammar?! Monkey - 21/05/2010 06:46:58 PM 158 Views
I'm proud of us all. If it were about Akkadian grammar, I'd be even more proud. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 06:51:20 PM 174 Views
You could make it about Russian grammar Larry - 21/05/2010 07:05:35 PM 259 Views
I think I would only get slightly more interest than if it were Akkadian grammar. Tom - 21/05/2010 08:13:24 PM 271 Views
True Larry - 21/05/2010 08:45:54 PM 132 Views
Ah, you misunderstood my question. Tom - 21/05/2010 09:10:56 PM 333 Views
I guess I did Larry - 21/05/2010 09:25:53 PM 396 Views
Those all sound boring. Tom - 21/05/2010 10:03:25 PM 292 Views
Not if they are approached from a cultural vantage point Larry - 21/05/2010 10:28:02 PM 330 Views
Avendesora - 24/05/2010 02:38:54 PM 246 Views
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