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C'est moi. Tom Send a noteboard - 21/05/2010 04:34:41 AM
The best answer to the first question would be "I do" rather than "me".

However, there is a very strong historical precedent for using oblique forms of personal pronouns in simple affirmations of existence. While "'Tis I" or "Verily, it is he" might be heard in some intentionally anachronistic dialogue, the standard way to express the predicate in such sentences is with the accusative:

It's me.

Oh look, it's him again.

Don't shoot - it's just us.

I'm not sure if this usage is common enough to actually be written as a prescriptive rule (or exception to a rule), but I'm sure people like Tim would say that it is perfectly good English insofar as it is the only natural way of expressing such sentences and has become the standard as the language has evolved.

EDIT: I see that Tim has actually commented as I expected he would. Of course, I don't buy into all of his crazy theories, but I'm no so prescriptivist that I would ignore something as pervasive as the simple predicate of existence taking the accusative for personal pronouns.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Tom on 21/05/2010 at 04:42:34 AM
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Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already Tom - 20/05/2010 04:16:29 PM 1220 Views
It isn't something I can recall really noticing snoopcester - 20/05/2010 04:22:42 PM 404 Views
You don't live in the United States of America. Tom - 20/05/2010 04:31:23 PM 391 Views
Well yes but me was just feeling smug it doesn't seem as common over here snoopcester - 20/05/2010 05:12:41 PM 374 Views
Re: You don't live in the United States of America. Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:35:34 PM 400 Views
I think this is one of those things people do because they think it makes them sound smart. Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:33:38 PM 428 Views
When in actuality it exposese their stupidity and ignorance. *NM* Tom - 20/05/2010 04:36:08 PM 204 Views
Like saying "octopi". <Shivers> *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:56:27 PM 310 Views
Octopodes makes them sounds like aliens LadyLorraine - 21/05/2010 12:25:14 AM 510 Views
THEY ARE VICIOUS CREATURES FROM THE DEEP. CUTTLEFISH HAVE W SHAPED PUPILS. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:00:41 AM 326 Views
Actually nothing like that Sareitha Sedai - 21/05/2010 04:49:43 PM 359 Views
Yeah, I've never had a problem with that one. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:45:38 PM 322 Views
As a Classicist I'm afraid I can't get past the misguided origins. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 10:08:34 PM 301 Views
I don't know how me feels about this. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:49:03 PM 403 Views
This makes me want cookies. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 04:50:34 PM 307 Views
I was thinking about him when I wrote it. Tigr - 20/05/2010 04:55:04 PM 392 Views
*NM* Avendesora - 20/05/2010 05:55:32 PM 190 Views
you know, considering my state was THE lowest in the country for education... LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 05:04:42 PM 412 Views
Dude, I could care less *NM* Monkey - 20/05/2010 05:30:37 PM 289 Views
*cough* move along... ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:16:18 PM 390 Views
That annoys me, too Camilla - 20/05/2010 05:34:30 PM 539 Views
I think you're confusing it with phrase-final prepositions. *NM* Tim - 20/05/2010 11:57:30 PM 306 Views
No Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:00:02 AM 356 Views
Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:03:59 AM 599 Views
Re: Oh right, that two (pro)nouns linked by "and" have to be the same case. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:06:51 AM 598 Views
Er, no... Tim - 21/05/2010 12:19:31 AM 352 Views
Re: Er, no... Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:22:32 AM 362 Views
It doesn't. The reason for that is exactly as Tom says: idiotic teachers. *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:28:12 AM 289 Views
But that is what I said when you contradicted me! *NM* Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:38:11 AM 292 Views
OK, I'm officially lost. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:28 AM 397 Views
Re: OK, I'm officially lost. Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:49:59 AM 584 Views
Can you start right from the beginning? Tim - 21/05/2010 12:52:08 AM 365 Views
Re: Can you start right from the beginning? Camilla - 21/05/2010 12:55:34 AM 385 Views
Please let me know when you sort this out. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:26:50 AM 329 Views
Sorted Camilla - 22/05/2010 03:06:53 AM 570 Views
Coffee time is going to be appropriated by grammar discussion? Shall I bring a book? *NM* Rebekah - 21/05/2010 10:12:48 AM 298 Views
Not entirely. We just need to get a hold of Pratchett's Unseen Academicals on the way. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:25:57 AM 345 Views
This whole thread is just an elaborate effort to provoke my complaints about terminal prepositions. Joel - 21/05/2010 02:58:05 PM 489 Views
Ah, I think I've found the problem Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:50:59 AM 421 Views
Re: Inspired by Camilla's post: quit saying "between you and I" already ßelals Girl - 20/05/2010 07:28:16 PM 475 Views
Look at Camilla's post directly below. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:49:03 PM 384 Views
Well, the same problem appears in Swedish to some extent. jh - 20/05/2010 07:28:32 PM 611 Views
It doesn't annoy me, but I do fine myself silently correcting it when I hear it. Beqi - 20/05/2010 07:44:49 PM 411 Views
It's the same as "I" vs. "me". "Who" can only be a subject. "Whom" is correct everywhere else. Tom - 20/05/2010 07:47:21 PM 596 Views
That's where I get into trouble. Joel - 21/05/2010 03:01:18 PM 570 Views
Along these lines Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 08:52:33 PM 564 Views
Well, shucks, Tom, we just ain't no good at that there grammer stuff. LiterateDog - 20/05/2010 07:49:18 PM 383 Views
And we're all unique little snowflakes. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:20:03 PM 395 Views
hollah that, brutha. *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/05/2010 08:41:03 PM 297 Views
You mean grammir. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 20/05/2010 09:41:55 PM 329 Views
Not limited to the US of A. Rebekah - 20/05/2010 08:26:30 PM 569 Views
It's properly the "US and A" - if Borat taught me nothing else, it's that. Tom - 20/05/2010 08:46:18 PM 365 Views
If you're going to start down that path... Legolas - 20/05/2010 10:12:24 PM 391 Views
Personally Sareitha Sedai - 20/05/2010 11:30:54 PM 334 Views
<Winces at your use of the word "ungrammatical"> *NM* Tim - 21/05/2010 12:09:29 AM 314 Views
I take it the wincing is at the concept, and not at the word itself... Legolas - 21/05/2010 12:32:43 AM 582 Views
It's the misappropriation of linguistic terminology to an improper use. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:44:54 AM 651 Views
I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:12:05 AM 491 Views
Re: I note you haven't replied to the main thread yet... Tim - 23/05/2010 01:36:10 PM 563 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 23/05/2010 01:58:58 PM 349 Views
Well of course that's wrong. It ought to be "The man whom you said that was coming." *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:03:37 AM 171 Views
OK, I know you're kidding around, but I can't tell if you know it isn't even prescriptively correct. Tim - 21/05/2010 10:38:51 AM 356 Views
<chant> Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:52:17 AM 343 Views
I can't draw you a syntax tree or what have you to prove that it's wrong, no, but I know it is. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 02:56:52 AM 345 Views
No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 22/05/2010 10:04:34 AM 528 Views
Clever clever. Explains why Greek changes the case in its indirect statements so much. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:47:26 PM 173 Views
Example please? *NM* Tim - 22/05/2010 10:34:05 PM 305 Views
Yeah, I worded that awkwardly. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:30:49 AM 361 Views
Ah, I see that I misread your subject line. Tim - 23/05/2010 01:17:28 PM 569 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 22/05/2010 11:40:05 PM 464 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Tim - 23/05/2010 10:30:59 AM 380 Views
Re: No trees necessary – this is lecture is 100% ecologically friendly. Camilla - 23/05/2010 10:36:25 AM 498 Views
Why = what for? That's amazing! *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:22:35 PM 175 Views
Cf pretty much every other European language, no? Legolas - 23/05/2010 09:32:33 PM 348 Views
Yes, but when you're a native speaker of English it comes as something of a surprise. Tim - 23/05/2010 11:18:45 PM 344 Views
The thing is that you really have to know Old English to figure it out. Ghavrel - 24/05/2010 03:22:10 AM 355 Views
Actually, that would be a direct object Larry - 21/05/2010 01:11:42 AM 354 Views
*blinks* Now I'm confused. Legolas - 21/05/2010 01:21:51 AM 340 Views
I know it's odd, but in terse responses, it seems to be a direct object rather than nominative Larry - 21/05/2010 01:46:10 AM 356 Views
No it isn't...in that case it would be "me", and not "a cookie", that is wanted. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:28:55 AM 361 Views
Well... Larry - 21/05/2010 04:33:27 AM 542 Views
"I want me a cookie" is not proper English. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:38:20 AM 550 Views
I know that Larry - 21/05/2010 05:31:52 AM 476 Views
See, this is an area where your dialect argument would make sense. Camilla - 21/05/2010 11:53:17 AM 471 Views
But that doesn't actually make any sense in Latin. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 03:03:28 AM 357 Views
I know it's dative in Latin Larry - 22/05/2010 03:14:48 AM 549 Views
Well, yes. But prepositions are how we decline our pronouns in English. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 04:35:42 AM 332 Views
And you would be wrong in that. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:27:16 PM 356 Views
Iċ am not sure what þū said me is relevant these days... Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 09:57:41 PM 331 Views
You still just aren't getting this. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:52:31 AM 351 Views
I accept it. But not in the circumstances when the prepositional phrase "to/for me" is used. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:27:30 AM 173 Views
Technically, most prepositions in English take the dative. Tom - 23/05/2010 02:31:06 AM 9501 Views
Huh. That makes sense. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:32:57 AM 166 Views
You're confusing me almost as much as Larry. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:15:43 AM 542 Views
True. But English uses the reflexive in that scenario, not the personal pronoun. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:05:30 PM 373 Views
That was atrocious Latin. Tom - 22/05/2010 02:20:35 PM 568 Views
I was very drunk, and it wasn't that bad even had I been sober. Ghavrel - 22/05/2010 10:04:12 PM 460 Views
Parare means, first and foremost, to prepare, supply or make something available. Tom - 23/05/2010 12:50:22 AM 467 Views
It also means to buy, and it frequently has that meaning when it's with the dative. No dice. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:31:01 AM 610 Views
Now you're pulling things out of your ass (about parare, at least) Tom - 23/05/2010 02:32:58 AM 340 Views
I unfortunately don't have the OLD, and no, I'm not. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:41:22 AM 381 Views
So I looked up the word in Lewis & Short. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 02:49:19 AM 340 Views
Interestingly enough, the Oxford Latin Dictionary doesn't have one use of the dative for "to buy". Tom - 23/05/2010 02:51:54 PM 555 Views
Hm. I guess I have to concede defeat in this, then. Ghavrel - 23/05/2010 09:21:29 PM 363 Views
When asked who told him that killing was wrong, Johnny Five said "I told me." TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:52:15 PM 369 Views
Yes, yes I am. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 10:14:16 PM 172 Views
C'est moi. Tom - 21/05/2010 04:34:41 AM 556 Views
One additional thought. everynametaken - 22/05/2010 02:14:15 AM 493 Views
Let me clarify. Legolas - 22/05/2010 11:32:25 AM 358 Views
Please don;t misunderstand what I posted as beng preachy. everynametaken - 23/05/2010 11:12:43 PM 350 Views
in my elementary school grammar classes... damookster - 21/05/2010 04:44:50 AM 390 Views
I'm unaware of any exceptions. It's a very good rule. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/05/2010 07:04:23 AM 167 Views
You clearly had an unusually good teacher. That's exactly what should be taught. Tim - 21/05/2010 12:00:58 PM 356 Views
That is what I was taught... Dominic - 21/05/2010 02:28:40 PM 648 Views
Same. TaskmasterJack - 21/05/2010 09:54:10 PM 380 Views
I was taught the same. *NM* Gena - 24/05/2010 02:24:41 PM 331 Views
Seriously dudes? 70 posts about fricking grammar?! Monkey - 21/05/2010 06:46:58 PM 376 Views
I'm proud of us all. If it were about Akkadian grammar, I'd be even more proud. *NM* Tom - 21/05/2010 06:51:20 PM 279 Views
You could make it about Russian grammar Larry - 21/05/2010 07:05:35 PM 469 Views
I think I would only get slightly more interest than if it were Akkadian grammar. Tom - 21/05/2010 08:13:24 PM 503 Views
True Larry - 21/05/2010 08:45:54 PM 338 Views
Ah, you misunderstood my question. Tom - 21/05/2010 09:10:56 PM 554 Views
I guess I did Larry - 21/05/2010 09:25:53 PM 617 Views
Those all sound boring. Tom - 21/05/2010 10:03:25 PM 512 Views
Not if they are approached from a cultural vantage point Larry - 21/05/2010 10:28:02 PM 532 Views
Avendesora - 24/05/2010 02:38:54 PM 475 Views
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