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So. snoopcester Send a noteboard - 14/08/2010 01:27:59 AM
Which one explains how separating the church and marriage would be different then what we have now in any meaningful way? That isn't sarcasm I have not had to read every single post but I have not seen anyone really explain what would change or how making people stand in front of JP before standing in front of their priest will change views on gay marriage.


for some it is no change. For some, who argue argue the it is a biblical issue, well it would mean the biblical issue is no longer related. Whish is, to go by Jeo's post, kind of important.

OK but I think you are make two major errors there.

First the people who oppose it on religious grounds will not give an inch because you changed the marriage laws in a effort to undermine their argument.

As I have stated else where I think the opposition to gay marriage being a religious issue is being grossly over stated. I think it more like when the bible was used to support slavery. The religion is just and excuse for the bigotry and it is the bigotry that needs to be confronted not the religion.


you claim it is two major issues but you don't prove them.

I thought it was a simple point. Marriage already is separated from religion in any meaningful legal sense so I am not sure what more you hope to accomplish in that regard.


I still have no idea of your point here. Please can you make one relevant to my post?

I see a load of crap flying around up there but points seem to be in short supply.


Lol. Nothing worth saying - You don't even realise why you are making a fool of yourself. Perhaps you shgould try to explain to someone who is really on the fiscal right why getting the state out of marriage is a left wing plot8}
*MySmiley*

Robert Graves "There is no money in poetry, but then there is no poetry in money, either."

Henning Mankell "We must defend the open society, because if we start locking our doors, if we let fear decide, the person who committed the act of terror will win"
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Gay Marriage MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:23:19 AM 2138 Views
I disagree on the latter part snoopcester - 12/08/2010 12:04:15 PM 1469 Views
I follow your point... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 12:14:17 PM 1465 Views
Suspect you would find plenty of denominations that would argue with you rather strenuously. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 12:24:55 PM 1505 Views
See, that's what I'm saying... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:37:26 PM 1416 Views
She didn't say that gays ought not be married. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 07:45:37 PM 1296 Views
You didn't read my post. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:10:21 PM 1346 Views
Actually, you didn't read my post MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:23:54 PM 1430 Views
Um, you're wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM 1367 Views
Re: Um, you're wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM 1328 Views
Boy Scouts of America v. Dale. And no, he described it accurately. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 09:53:31 PM 689 Views
You're still wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM 1474 Views
Re: You're still wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM 1323 Views
Again, you are still wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM 1398 Views
Re: Again, you are still wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM 1224 Views
Wrong definition of "club" Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:30:52 PM 1494 Views
My clubs are cooler than yours. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:35:13 PM 718 Views
I play golf with mine. *NM* Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:43:01 PM 734 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:40:55 PM 1414 Views
Are you a member of one of those churches? Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:44:12 PM 1387 Views
Also also: Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:46:05 PM 1376 Views
Re: Are you a member of one of those churches? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:49:44 PM 1370 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:47:20 PM 1411 Views
I don't think he means that kind of club. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:31:41 PM 1294 Views
Also MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:02:44 PM 1445 Views
And wrong again. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM 1456 Views
Not so quick! MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM 1288 Views
Yes, so quick! Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:32:13 PM 1236 Views
Let's be reasonable here MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:41:53 PM 1345 Views
Why do you get to judge? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:48:57 PM 1381 Views
I don't MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:53:21 PM 1281 Views
OK. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:58:22 PM 1378 Views
Re: OK. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:03:50 PM 1345 Views
Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 11:14:03 PM 1290 Views
Re: Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:23:35 PM 1402 Views
Then please stop. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM 1352 Views
What's wrong with discussion? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:05:48 PM 1305 Views
Discussion? Nothing. Your assertions about other people's views, something. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:09:48 PM 1312 Views
Really? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:13:46 PM 1344 Views
Yes. That is incorrect. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:18:05 PM 1308 Views
What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:12:54 PM 1200 Views
Re: What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:23:36 PM 1326 Views
Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:36:48 PM 1321 Views
Re: Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:46:22 PM 1423 Views
Apparently you do believe that you are more qualified Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:57:00 PM 1275 Views
You are wrong MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:11:37 PM 1131 Views
Really? Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 11:19:10 PM 1199 Views
Not entirely true either... or, well, true as far as Brown goes. Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:08:42 PM 1296 Views
Heh... we discuss restaurants a post or two over there.. ---> Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:10:26 PM 1378 Views
Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:38:33 PM 1393 Views
Re: Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:55:05 PM 1296 Views
Gah. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:59:45 PM 1248 Views
Yes yes yes. It was ungracious. I got bored. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:03:17 PM 659 Views
What a mature response. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:11:00 PM 1468 Views
Yes. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:21:38 PM 1403 Views
Re: Yes. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:35:51 PM 1359 Views
I can't speak for Rebekah, but I don't think the issue is that your points are invalid per se. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:22:30 PM 1261 Views
I think my point was unclear in that post MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:55:34 PM 1337 Views
It seems that by your (to me nebulous) definition Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 11:05:01 PM 1367 Views
Re: I think my point was unclear in that post Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:58:28 AM 1256 Views
+1 Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:16:24 AM 1142 Views
Hehe Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:46:25 AM 1188 Views
Um Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 09:46:43 PM 1417 Views
That's a very good question. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:49:05 PM 663 Views
So good it doesn't even need an answer, apparently *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:26:41 PM 715 Views
So good I responded to it someplace else. *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:56:05 PM 603 Views
It makes no sense Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:29:24 PM 1251 Views
Re: It makes no sense MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:39:25 PM 1312 Views
Re: It makes no sense Camilla - 12/08/2010 07:41:02 PM 1415 Views
It's not sanctioning anything MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:25:44 PM 1348 Views
Re: It's not sanctioning anything Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:28:45 PM 1336 Views
Nonsense snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:35:25 PM 1256 Views
Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... Kronin al'Sulc - 12/08/2010 09:08:53 PM 1237 Views
Re: Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:42:21 PM 1367 Views
Suspect you've not read that either. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:43:32 PM 1277 Views
What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:45:33 PM 1402 Views
Infant baptism, obviously. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 09:51:48 PM 1388 Views
*NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:53:17 PM 494 Views
*groan* I forgot that one! Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:09:07 PM 1366 Views
Re: What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? Camilla - 13/08/2010 11:04:02 AM 1400 Views
Wow, it's almost like an entire denomination believes that! *NM* Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM 655 Views
really? Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:42:42 PM 1224 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM 1146 Views
Yeah, that's the Roman Catholic basis against masturbation and contraception. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 04:12:00 PM 623 Views
Yes Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:22:58 PM 1205 Views
Which is interesting Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 04:28:09 PM 1176 Views
Yes Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:29:25 PM 1155 Views
Original poster. *NM* Rebekah - 13/08/2010 04:32:18 PM 710 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:34:30 PM 1204 Views
Dude....please at least have a working knowledge of the Bible before you spout off. Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:47:13 PM 1217 Views
I like the part in 1 Corinthians (is it chapter 6?) Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:49:55 PM 1122 Views
Ya know?!? Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:55:27 PM 1243 Views
I'm not sure you're correct there. Tom - 12/08/2010 04:33:02 PM 1343 Views
Re: I'm not sure you're correct there. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:40:16 PM 1346 Views
There is a difference... Dannymac - 12/08/2010 09:02:20 PM 1382 Views
No you don't. snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:16:52 PM 1382 Views
That's another concern Isaac - 12/08/2010 12:39:53 PM 1434 Views
Not quite my point snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:19:50 PM 1293 Views
secular marriage is decoupled from religious marriage random thoughts - 12/08/2010 02:50:43 PM 1438 Views
Simple, require the legal and religious marriage to be performed separately. Legolas - 12/08/2010 02:58:43 PM 1268 Views
And they are, in fact, separate right now in the US. They're just called the same thing. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 03:29:26 PM 1310 Views
It's not the same name that's confusing so much as the single ceremony. Or so it seems to me. Legolas - 12/08/2010 03:37:20 PM 1296 Views
I disagree. I think giving the legal institution the same name as the sacrament is the problem. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 03:59:43 PM 1296 Views
What in the world would that accomplish? random thoughts - 12/08/2010 03:44:32 PM 1346 Views
Provide some much-needed clarity, evidently. Legolas - 12/08/2010 03:49:33 PM 1175 Views
the problem is it would be changing a centuries old tradition.. random thoughts - 12/08/2010 04:26:47 PM 1221 Views
heheheheheheheHAHAHAHEHEHehehehehahheeh*cough* Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:55:09 PM 1232 Views
thats OK I am sure you will get over it random thoughts - 12/08/2010 05:22:08 PM 1247 Views
Just guessing, but I think it was the "centuries old tradition" that set off the giggle fit. Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:25:38 PM 1346 Views
Really? I was hoping for something better random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:06:00 PM 1293 Views
So government recognition makes your religion meaningful? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:11:54 PM 1408 Views
not my religion I'm agnostic random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:34:40 PM 1238 Views
OK, but the point remains the same. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:51:59 PM 1351 Views
Of course it would random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:10:03 PM 1437 Views
I'm not far left, thank you very much. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:20:31 PM 720 Views
no but your are European and that slants your views *NM* random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM 700 Views
Sure, but in this case it has little to do with left or right. Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:40:42 PM 1302 Views
that is what I said when I metioned you were European *NM* random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:11:31 PM 692 Views
Simples snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:30:31 PM 1327 Views
there are about 140 post ranging from boyscouts to infant babtism random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:57:46 PM 1290 Views
So. snoopcester - 14/08/2010 01:27:59 AM 1168 Views
sorry I responded I forgot what a tool you are. my bad random thoughts - 14/08/2010 02:48:57 AM 1687 Views
You spout some utter gibberish then dish out insults when called on it? Very funny snoopcester - 15/08/2010 12:47:04 PM 1522 Views
Agreed *NM* Camilla - 12/08/2010 03:45:04 PM 579 Views
I love you, Camilla lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:02:15 PM 1119 Views
Re: I love you, Camilla Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:04:10 PM 1313 Views
Is there an all above option? *NM* lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:23:24 PM 732 Views
Naturally. Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:25:14 PM 1306 Views
I know I do *NM* LadyLorraine - 12/08/2010 05:17:35 PM 674 Views
Another thing MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:42:21 PM 1413 Views
A couple of things SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 12:58:09 PM 1307 Views
I disagree MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:47:26 PM 1450 Views
Well, you're within your rights to certainly SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 08:24:30 PM 1390 Views
there is major flaw in your argument random thoughts - 12/08/2010 03:31:45 PM 1441 Views
Re: there is major flaw in your argument lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:01:32 PM 1318 Views
I should clarify that I support gay marriage random thoughts - 12/08/2010 05:20:36 PM 1263 Views
One point about Prop. 8 Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:38:55 PM 1280 Views
I know that is the commonl;y held belief but I thinkit is wrong random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:32:58 PM 1210 Views
Religious institutions, though, pushed hard to pass it. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:42:33 PM 1304 Views
that doesn’t translate into people voting for religious reasons random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:19:48 PM 1117 Views
Bigotry and Fear that are supported and encouraged by religious institutions. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:32:30 PM 1284 Views
there are major flaws in your argument MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:51:52 PM 1449 Views
Women can't be priests in the Catholic church. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 08:00:24 PM 1066 Views
Hehe. You beat me by 6 seconds. *NM* Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:03:28 PM 618 Views
Great minds and all. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 08:06:01 PM 620 Views
I was writing a reply to this post... lyringlas - 12/08/2010 03:51:01 PM 1328 Views
I feel your pain *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:52:28 PM 705 Views
Forcing religious institutions to marry gay couples is hideously unconstitutional. Tom - 12/08/2010 04:18:59 PM 1383 Views
100% agreed. LadyLorraine - 12/08/2010 05:05:35 PM 1426 Views
This. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/08/2010 07:36:57 PM 538 Views
You are absolutely wrong MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:57:19 PM 1353 Views
By that token Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:00:30 PM 1224 Views
My God.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:49:18 PM 1304 Views
no You are absolutely wrong random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:08:57 PM 1228 Views
Well, that was horrifyingly stupid. Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 12:57:46 AM 1345 Views
Your arguments are so specious and stupid I don't know where to begin. Tom - 13/08/2010 05:04:17 AM 1247 Views
I am a Christian who wholeheartedly supports Gay Marriage. Seriana Sedai - 12/08/2010 06:49:28 PM 1424 Views
Fair enough. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 08:01:37 PM 1366 Views
Why do people equate.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 07:11:15 PM 1306 Views
Because "homophobic", like "xenophobic", has shifted a bit in meaning... Legolas - 12/08/2010 07:33:56 PM 1329 Views
So then.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 07:39:24 PM 1278 Views
Well, strongly anti-gay, yes. Legolas - 12/08/2010 07:43:40 PM 1113 Views
Homophobic is generally "anti-gay" or "anti-queer"... Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:46:22 PM 1430 Views
Because your reasons for being against gay marriage are so specious *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:59:42 PM 725 Views
I particularly enjoy the implied assumption that your a good enough judge of my motivations. *NM* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:24:14 PM 680 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Sidious - 12/08/2010 08:04:24 PM 1500 Views
+1 Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:06:19 PM 1446 Views
Stop with the pile on Camilla. Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:22:35 PM 1372 Views
You would have said nothing if I had just said "agreed" Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:27:33 PM 1194 Views
Which speaks highly of you.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:36:30 PM 1392 Views
This is being very petty. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:41:26 PM 691 Views
As opposed to a snarky +1 comment? *NM* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:45:02 PM 706 Views
It's not snarky. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:47:47 PM 1355 Views
Its a +1 shorthand comment... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:52:04 PM 1611 Views
Wow. Those two characters allowed you to read Camilla's motivations? Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:54:25 PM 1234 Views
*shrug* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:58:42 PM 1425 Views
Yes, I am terribly selfish Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:10:54 AM 1226 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:13:07 PM 1443 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:26:41 PM 1322 Views
LOL Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:42:32 PM 1286 Views
Re: LOL Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:12:29 AM 1234 Views
you are exactly why the state needs to make a clear seperation between the secular and religious snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:33:22 PM 1289 Views
Ok, so if the state does then... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:44:31 PM 1211 Views
No, marriage started because of property. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:59:14 PM 1326 Views
So then two things come to mind... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:04:39 PM 1290 Views
Only two? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM 1296 Views
Is this the same guy... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:43:02 PM 1201 Views
I thought the cow died in an accident, but yes... that guy. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:58:46 PM 1274 Views
That's a little difficult to do SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 03:19:32 PM 1507 Views
Re: That's a little difficult to do Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:30:14 PM 1360 Views
Oh, I hope not SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 04:19:47 PM 1316 Views
I may be wrong Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:24:28 PM 1311 Views
Property isn't just agricultural. Phelix - 13/08/2010 06:11:12 PM 1245 Views
True enough SilverWarder - 16/08/2010 03:12:31 PM 1517 Views
yes but about half of the old testament deals with protecting those rights random thoughts - 13/08/2010 05:16:09 PM 1291 Views
The relationship between religion and rain go even farther back... Phelix - 13/08/2010 06:15:32 PM 1287 Views
to me it is a beside the point when it comes to the law random thoughts - 13/08/2010 06:25:50 PM 1267 Views
moot, not mute Camilla - 13/08/2010 08:48:04 PM 1569 Views
damn random thoughts - 13/08/2010 08:52:23 PM 1370 Views
Actually, I agree with that snoopcester - 12/08/2010 10:01:37 PM 1182 Views
See, now this, I could deal with.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:06:15 PM 1187 Views
So is it that you are hung up on the name then? SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 03:29:02 PM 1244 Views
Rights.... Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:34:45 PM 1271 Views
See, what I don't get is why gay people care about jh - 12/08/2010 08:18:45 PM 1284 Views
It's mostly about getting married in the eyes of the state. Phelix - 12/08/2010 08:42:52 PM 1392 Views
I'm fairly sure Jonte was referring only to the "churches have to accept gay marriages" bit. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 08:44:52 PM 717 Views
Hmmm... Then I shall reply to that part here. Phelix - 12/08/2010 08:50:10 PM 1405 Views
Oh, so it is an american thing, then. *NM* jh - 14/08/2010 08:58:28 AM 657 Views
Starting again Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:23:08 PM 1406 Views
Not at all MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:58:45 PM 1332 Views
Re: Not at all Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:14:48 AM 1102 Views
Agreed *NM* snoopcester - 13/08/2010 10:21:06 AM 580 Views
Oh dear Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:30:45 AM 1203 Views
But what if I like being selfish and evil? *NM* snoopcester - 13/08/2010 11:25:01 AM 705 Views
Well, being English might help you get away with it Camilla - 13/08/2010 11:26:17 AM 1153 Views
I'm curious Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 01:49:15 PM 1290 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 01:54:19 PM 1151 Views
Okay, good. Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 01:58:14 PM 1316 Views
I suppose you also think that religious Pacifists should be eligible for the draft? Dannymac - 12/08/2010 08:42:21 PM 1365 Views
very nicely said *NM* random thoughts - 13/08/2010 02:16:53 PM 566 Views
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