...is that what happened there didn't just happen to non-muslims. It could even be argued that the gravity of what happened there is greater for American muslims.
Yes, Muslims suffered directly in the attack and also indirectly after the attack. Don't think I'd say it was greater or less than anyone else's suffering, but point granted.
My problem with building it here comes from the reasoning behind the attacks. This was an attack on the West, its Judeo-Christian leanings, and foreign ties with Israel. The radical Muslim terrorists didn't come aiming to kill as many peaceful American Muslims as possible; though I'm sure killing some along the way didn't bother them in the least.
I feel crappy now too, because I started looking for demographics after your post. Found out that the most people who died, outside of those living directly in NYC, were from Hoboken.
Wait, wait WAIT! The location for the so-called "mosque at ground zero" is actually 2 blocks away?!
- 17/08/2010 03:19:02 PM
2692 Views
Another stupid question...is it even actually a mosque?
- 17/08/2010 03:28:37 PM
1533 Views
it's both from what I've heard.
- 17/08/2010 04:00:54 PM
1454 Views
sort of like most churches, mosques and temples? *NM*
- 17/08/2010 04:04:12 PM
744 Views
mmm, i think more like...
- 17/08/2010 04:08:55 PM
1435 Views
my wife's church has a play ground and community center
- 17/08/2010 04:47:52 PM
1453 Views
Been hearing a lot on NPR
- 17/08/2010 03:32:42 PM
1535 Views
I could see it being insensitive if it were actually where the towers used to be.
- 17/08/2010 03:43:18 PM
1620 Views
This could be part of the reason that most of the opposition doesn't seem to be coming from locals.
- 17/08/2010 03:53:06 PM
1540 Views
seriously, it's not like property is some ample commodity in NYC *NM*
- 17/08/2010 04:03:24 PM
788 Views
you should probably keep in mind....
- 17/08/2010 04:02:25 PM
1552 Views
So
- 17/08/2010 04:06:18 PM
1604 Views
Ground Zero specifically refers to the north and south towers where the planes struck...
- 17/08/2010 04:26:40 PM
1522 Views
it certainly has turned into a political land mine for Obama...
- 17/08/2010 03:54:03 PM
1468 Views
True
- 17/08/2010 04:02:04 PM
1276 Views
unfortunately...
- 17/08/2010 04:05:08 PM
1420 Views
This is beginning to sound familiar.
- 17/08/2010 05:18:37 PM
1656 Views
with the senate majority leader weighing it I don't believe it is all how it is mostly on the right
- 17/08/2010 05:58:10 PM
1541 Views
Well, since day 1 of this whole debate alot of the opposition has come from the right.
- 17/08/2010 10:50:49 PM
1540 Views
you assume it is pandering maybe they just agree with the majority
- 18/08/2010 02:30:53 AM
1442 Views
I'm not saying it's a partisan issue, but it has turned political for all the wrong reasons.
- 18/08/2010 04:18:49 AM
1618 Views
is the idea that it is not to close to ground zero the misinformation you are refering to?
- 18/08/2010 03:09:17 PM
1449 Views
Well, it's not like they're literally on ground zero.
- 18/08/2010 08:54:08 PM
1614 Views
Guess which of them will be out of a job in January?
- 18/08/2010 01:22:49 PM
1469 Views
- 18/08/2010 01:22:49 PM
1469 Views
the only reason Obama won't be out of job is he isn't running
- 18/08/2010 03:10:58 PM
1424 Views
Oh, I dunno if you could translate the current numbers into Obamas defeat.
- 18/08/2010 03:52:18 PM
1481 Views
it was a large event so two half blocks really is pretty damn close
- 17/08/2010 04:03:17 PM
1570 Views
Here's a map of the site for perspective
- 17/08/2010 04:08:41 PM
1627 Views
so 2 blocks from the superblock then?
- 17/08/2010 04:13:03 PM
1673 Views
I guess, superblock is an obscure term to this country lad
- 17/08/2010 04:41:11 PM
1439 Views
It may not necessarily matter to people who are aware of that fact.
- 17/08/2010 05:13:12 PM
1428 Views
mk, well, to my mind (being from phoeni
, 1 full city block is about 1 mile.
- 17/08/2010 05:15:49 PM
1488 Views
, 1 full city block is about 1 mile.
- 17/08/2010 05:15:49 PM
1488 Views
A mile is a serious exaggeration, surely.
- 17/08/2010 05:24:48 PM
1610 Views
Remember, I did say in Phoenix
- 17/08/2010 05:27:43 PM
1530 Views
- 17/08/2010 05:27:43 PM
1530 Views
I really need to see Phoenix some day.
- 17/08/2010 05:32:40 PM
1523 Views
i still think houston is more spread out than phoenix
- 18/08/2010 08:21:10 AM
1517 Views
unless you go far enough west of course
- 18/08/2010 03:30:45 PM
1387 Views
Absolutely.
- 17/08/2010 05:28:38 PM
1501 Views
Yeah, and it seems to be about 10 autobuses in distance on Google Earth.
- 17/08/2010 05:29:43 PM
1377 Views
Google Earth says 500 feet between mosque and GZ *NM*
- 17/08/2010 05:30:59 PM
713 Views
*edit* Just for reference... one mile = 5280 feet, 500ft = approx 1/10 of a mile.
- 17/08/2010 06:26:19 PM
1458 Views
Judging by Google Earth, the blocks inbetween both contain a single large building. (edit)
- 17/08/2010 07:08:05 PM
1369 Views
Clarify: 500 ft between the mosque and the border of the area on the map? *NM*
- 17/08/2010 07:03:51 PM
719 Views
Personally, I think this supports Ave's point.
- 17/08/2010 04:16:15 PM
1540 Views
You know what else is on Park Place? A strip club.
- 17/08/2010 11:58:56 PM
1424 Views
Really? I had no idea
- 18/08/2010 12:06:27 AM
1483 Views
Re: Really? I had no idea
- 18/08/2010 12:24:54 AM
1516 Views
Hmm...
- 18/08/2010 01:23:14 AM
1455 Views
knowing there's a strip club and "walking those streets"; seems like you've "gotten around"
- 18/08/2010 02:03:14 AM
1480 Views
- 18/08/2010 02:03:14 AM
1480 Views
They're building on the hallowed ground of a Burlington Coat Factory!
- 17/08/2010 04:13:06 PM
1520 Views
how so?
- 17/08/2010 04:14:17 PM
1352 Views
From when the Moors conquered Spain
- 17/08/2010 04:18:18 PM
1598 Views
to clarify though
- 17/08/2010 04:50:19 PM
1393 Views
Yes, but you have to remember the mindset of those protesting.
- 17/08/2010 09:49:26 PM
1478 Views
Sorry, but the card says it was "the Moops" so you must be wrong.
- 18/08/2010 03:56:11 PM
1446 Views
Ezra Klein made a good point in the Washington Post...
- 17/08/2010 04:33:31 PM
1388 Views
that is hardly the same thing
- 17/08/2010 04:56:43 PM
1478 Views
My question is, why would you want to put a mosque/community center/thing that close?
- 17/08/2010 04:39:05 PM
1420 Views
angry New Yorkers?
- 17/08/2010 04:45:01 PM
1530 Views
I was going to guess 4 protests to your earlier post.
- 17/08/2010 04:50:08 PM
1504 Views
- 17/08/2010 04:50:08 PM
1504 Views
We do not live in fear of what "a few crazy people" might do. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 12:02:06 AM
697 Views
Re: angry New Yorkers?
- 17/08/2010 04:53:58 PM
1442 Views
I was wondering about that.
- 17/08/2010 04:56:28 PM
1544 Views
I think what this position misses
- 17/08/2010 05:01:52 PM
1658 Views
Ok, sure.
- 17/08/2010 06:09:33 PM
1528 Views
angry New Yorkers? Geez, we are more civilized than that, thank you. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 12:01:12 AM
697 Views
not really *NM*
- 18/08/2010 02:31:46 AM
619 Views
your opinion is noted. now go eff yourself. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 04:11:25 AM
670 Views
that's pretty good
- 18/08/2010 04:44:14 AM
1443 Views
That's right. Why resort to violence when a good rant will do? *NM*
- 18/08/2010 06:09:27 AM
682 Views
and a heart fuck off to you but thanks for the ironic reply *NM*
- 18/08/2010 03:18:25 PM
703 Views
How is it ironic? *NM*
- 18/08/2010 03:43:50 PM
771 Views
How was his uncivilized response ironic? *NM*
- 18/08/2010 04:18:17 PM
678 Views
Re: How was his uncivilized response ironic?
- 18/08/2010 04:23:25 PM
1379 Views
Aaah
- 18/08/2010 04:31:02 PM
1449 Views
Because the building is cheap as hell, because they're mostly abandoned in those areas
- 18/08/2010 01:25:13 AM
1452 Views
Something I'm confused on
- 17/08/2010 04:59:41 PM
1712 Views
another thing to consider.
- 17/08/2010 05:02:38 PM
1404 Views
You'll have to explain to me what that has to do with what I said
- 17/08/2010 05:10:21 PM
1404 Views
Of course you're confused. It was a tangental thought.
- 17/08/2010 06:06:29 PM
1454 Views
Fair enough, I can't really criticize others for going off on tangents since I do it so much
*NM*
- 17/08/2010 06:36:54 PM
714 Views
*NM*
- 17/08/2010 06:36:54 PM
714 Views
From what I understand, there's another mosque very close to the site
- 17/08/2010 05:06:26 PM
1581 Views
I understand there's also a strip club and a xxx movie rental shop within that same 2 blocks radius.
- 17/08/2010 05:09:26 PM
1495 Views
True but the buildings were not nocked down by radical strippers
*NM*
- 17/08/2010 05:52:04 PM
723 Views
*NM*
- 17/08/2010 05:52:04 PM
723 Views
What do strip clubs and dirty movies and gay bars have to do with 9/11?
*NM*
- 18/08/2010 12:33:59 AM
731 Views
*NM*
- 18/08/2010 12:33:59 AM
731 Views
Nothing, which is precisely the point. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 12:37:52 AM
732 Views
Can you explain your point to me then? Because I'm not following it.
- 18/08/2010 01:21:13 AM
1381 Views
The argument is that it's "hallowed ground" and therefore should be treated with "respect"
- 18/08/2010 01:26:44 AM
1550 Views
Pretty much what Greg said.
- 18/08/2010 09:39:33 AM
1457 Views
then you are missing the point
- 18/08/2010 04:02:49 PM
1610 Views
In all fairness...
- 18/08/2010 09:46:26 PM
1504 Views
these guys are not babes in the woods
- 19/08/2010 12:28:24 PM
1340 Views
This whole debate disgusts me.
- 17/08/2010 05:24:56 PM
1654 Views
Jon Stewart made good point last night
- 17/08/2010 05:34:19 PM
1526 Views
but it's the CONCEPT!!! practical effect is not the POINT of political debate!! *NM*
- 17/08/2010 05:53:30 PM
722 Views
which is why Obama was crazy to get anywhere this issue
- 17/08/2010 06:01:44 PM
1400 Views
He's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't
- 17/08/2010 06:18:16 PM
1398 Views
More than anything, I see this being a sensitivity issue....
- 17/08/2010 07:43:45 PM
1432 Views
- 17/08/2010 07:52:07 PM
1455 Views
- 17/08/2010 07:52:07 PM
1455 Views
Right on.
- 17/08/2010 08:09:44 PM
1401 Views
yah, it sounds like the builders aren't being very thoughtful in their PR.
- 17/08/2010 08:12:20 PM
1185 Views
yah, it sounds like the builders aren't being very thoughtful in their PR.
- 17/08/2010 08:12:21 PM
1480 Views
The crux is they can't HELP stirring "up the grief and pain of the past. "
- 18/08/2010 01:49:21 PM
1531 Views
are you serious?
- 17/08/2010 08:01:01 PM
1544 Views
Yes, I am...
- 17/08/2010 08:14:27 PM
1436 Views
The point is your analogy does not hold
- 17/08/2010 08:19:29 PM
1436 Views
Plus
- 17/08/2010 08:26:36 PM
1503 Views
Re: Yes, I am...
- 17/08/2010 08:42:27 PM
1525 Views
Aren't they?
- 17/08/2010 09:19:58 PM
1525 Views
You may be interested in...
- 17/08/2010 09:23:48 PM
1617 Views
*nods* So I was right....
- 17/08/2010 09:26:59 PM
1311 Views
That is probably not fair
- 17/08/2010 11:12:22 PM
1415 Views
I know!
- 18/08/2010 03:06:25 AM
1426 Views
Using a touch of hyperbole, perhaps?
- 18/08/2010 10:18:36 AM
1482 Views
I'm so proud of you for noticing!
- 18/08/2010 10:48:14 AM
1547 Views
- 18/08/2010 10:48:14 AM
1547 Views
Just making sure you knew I wasn't mistaking your reply for a constructive one
- 18/08/2010 12:08:41 PM
1404 Views
- 18/08/2010 12:08:41 PM
1404 Views
I give constuctive replies where they are due
- 18/08/2010 12:30:42 PM
1493 Views
COMPLETELY unrelated point that I don't blame you for ignoring...
- 19/08/2010 04:25:31 AM
1382 Views
you are right of course
- 17/08/2010 08:22:23 PM
1418 Views
So, you're saying muslims should leave nyc to show their sensitivity, right?
- 17/08/2010 10:31:55 PM
1388 Views
so your saying you always speak in over the top rhetoric?
- 18/08/2010 03:22:20 PM
1285 Views
THANK YOU
- 18/08/2010 01:13:16 AM
1521 Views
Take deep breaths..
- 18/08/2010 05:25:16 AM
1455 Views
Typing a post didn't really require all that much effort
- 18/08/2010 06:13:15 AM
1512 Views
There are more important things in the world to worry about
- 18/08/2010 08:51:35 AM
1508 Views
I disagree, anger doesn't help in this debate, and it's only going to make things worse.
- 18/08/2010 10:56:30 AM
1482 Views
So what, the Americans supporting this mosque are "arrogant European pricks"?
- 18/08/2010 10:12:51 AM
1319 Views
Kind of a stretch for you to make that assumption
- 18/08/2010 11:31:16 AM
1513 Views
- 18/08/2010 11:31:16 AM
1513 Views
I hadn't read that other exchange yet, it made more sense after that.
- 18/08/2010 12:35:18 PM
1556 Views
My only real objection is the same old one over whether respect is an entitlement.
- 18/08/2010 02:21:19 PM
1358 Views
A mosque was built in the Pentagon months after 9/11
- 18/08/2010 01:23:11 AM
1492 Views
Here comes the "xenophobia card."
- 18/08/2010 01:27:50 AM
1547 Views
Which is why there was a bombing at another mosque earlier this year
- 18/08/2010 01:31:51 AM
1436 Views
I think a better parallel would be the new neighbors opening a pool store.
- 18/08/2010 01:40:42 PM
1528 Views
A guy on CNN made a really good point about this
- 17/08/2010 08:46:54 PM
1562 Views
That analogy really isn't better than Jeo's, and I would think worse.
*NM*
- 17/08/2010 09:02:50 PM
740 Views
*NM*
- 17/08/2010 09:02:50 PM
740 Views
hmm yes but that black man hadn't killed his dog
- 17/08/2010 09:22:15 PM
1471 Views
Re: hmm yes but that black man hadn't killed his dog
- 17/08/2010 10:32:24 PM
1605 Views
Yeah this whole debate is pretty pointless to be completely honest
- 17/08/2010 10:28:13 PM
1495 Views
well we have been shot at from enough mosque to make it hard to tell at times
- 18/08/2010 08:25:58 PM
1481 Views
I think this whole debate has made American look bad.
- 17/08/2010 10:58:23 PM
1408 Views
So what?
- 18/08/2010 12:28:40 AM
1478 Views
Okay, so we're no longer the land of religous tolerance.
- 18/08/2010 04:09:24 AM
1665 Views
Were we ever?
- 18/08/2010 04:18:16 AM
1634 Views
I guess not.
- 18/08/2010 04:25:03 AM
1577 Views
Re: I guess not.
- 18/08/2010 05:56:49 AM
1455 Views
Re: I guess not.
- 18/08/2010 10:43:05 AM
1442 Views
How does this work, do you only look bad to a bunch of ass wipes, or does anyone who thinks you look
- 18/08/2010 09:38:28 AM
1395 Views
Olberman's Special Comment on this one hits the nail on the head
- 18/08/2010 01:29:45 AM
1554 Views
love that the Olberman video, but Jon Stewart did an awesome job too. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 01:32:59 AM
673 Views
Olbermann and Stewart are possibly the two best people alive *NM*
- 18/08/2010 02:39:48 AM
760 Views
they make the top of my list for people I wnat to catch an STD *NM*
- 18/08/2010 08:27:27 PM
692 Views
Let me just say...
- 18/08/2010 09:20:38 PM
1509 Views
Re: Let me just say...
- 18/08/2010 09:22:12 PM
1480 Views
I didn't watch that particular video, so maybe, yeah. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 10:11:22 PM
729 Views
I used to be so Idealistic to think this was AMERICA.
- 18/08/2010 01:44:38 AM
1542 Views
the key phrase is "congress shall make no law...."
- 18/08/2010 02:23:53 AM
1570 Views
14th ammendment changed that *NM*
- 18/08/2010 04:51:08 AM
697 Views
14th ammendment established a state religion?
- 18/08/2010 08:14:11 AM
1362 Views
No, but the Equal Protection Clause extended much of the BoR to the states.
- 18/08/2010 02:50:31 PM
1493 Views
did you go the the Huffington Post school of law?
- 18/08/2010 03:29:14 PM
1429 Views
No, but I've spent more time around lawyers than I care to admit.
- 18/08/2010 03:45:36 PM
1516 Views
The connection is inevitable and, I think, deliberate.
- 18/08/2010 01:15:41 PM
1624 Views
Hmm
- 18/08/2010 02:26:17 PM
1377 Views
Bottom line is it may be in everyones interest to DISassociate Islam from 911.
- 18/08/2010 02:58:17 PM
1457 Views
No, bottom line is people need to be able to keep to thoughts in their brains at any given time *NM*
- 18/08/2010 03:31:03 PM
689 Views
You mean retain both "I want to promote Islam" AND "Dude, Ground Zero is right THERE! *points*"
- 18/08/2010 03:36:34 PM
1418 Views
How long ago were the Crusades?
- 18/08/2010 03:48:53 PM
1382 Views
Re: How long ago were the Crusades?
- 18/08/2010 03:52:23 PM
1427 Views
So wait...
- 18/08/2010 04:09:10 PM
1366 Views
Yes, Jerodam. Christians are good. All the rest are bad. I see it now.
- 18/08/2010 04:10:47 PM
1457 Views
Stop freaking out Camilla. You are such a drama queen some times.
- 18/08/2010 04:15:06 PM
1454 Views
That is not drama. That is fed up. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 04:16:32 PM
790 Views
You're not the only one who is fed up....
- 18/08/2010 04:24:27 PM
1262 Views
*giggle*
- 18/08/2010 04:29:03 PM
1461 Views
This may be nitpicking, but I'll do it anyway because it's a widespread misconception...
- 18/08/2010 04:30:20 PM
1402 Views
I agreed with you at first - thought your first post was pretty insightful.
- 18/08/2010 05:46:02 PM
1430 Views
The Crusades were by Christendom as a whole*, 9-11 isn't similar for Islam by some way
- 18/08/2010 04:04:54 PM
1424 Views
Re: The Crusades were by Christendom as a whole*, 9-11 isn't similar for Islam by some way
- 18/08/2010 04:11:34 PM
1435 Views
Some people will always wonder about such things; we're still accused of "Crusading" today.
- 18/08/2010 04:07:02 PM
1448 Views
I don't disagree about the outreach, as such, but a remark...
- 18/08/2010 04:37:52 PM
1316 Views
It's as much a local issue as the theme park Disney wanted to build at Gettysburg.
- 19/08/2010 03:15:03 PM
1349 Views
A bit more background information
- 18/08/2010 05:30:04 PM
1574 Views
That's informative, thanks, but I'm not sure it really changes anything.
- 19/08/2010 03:27:05 PM
1383 Views
Step One: Manufacture controversey by means of misinformation (i.e. Mosque at Ground Zero)
- 19/08/2010 06:40:49 PM
1563 Views
Can I just say...
- 19/08/2010 01:45:38 AM
1335 Views
Roughly 2 football fields, yes. And around a corner
- 19/08/2010 03:17:24 PM
1442 Views
Two hundred yards is nothing.
- 19/08/2010 04:44:34 PM
1378 Views
Sure it is - it's two large city blocks
- 19/08/2010 05:15:46 PM
1443 Views
It's two fairly average city blocks, and not even that some places.
- 21/08/2010 06:07:33 PM
1411 Views


*NM*
*NM*