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In fairness, it's extremely hard to draw that line sometimes. Legolas Send a noteboard - 18/08/2010 10:27:24 AM
Exaggeration or not, this is worth exploring. I have the distinct impression that many of America's blunders in Iraq and Afghanistan (hell, the Islamic world in general) have to do with mistaking genuine and legitimate political activism for political radicalism. This is no doubt something our "allies" have an interest in promoting since it keeps their corrupt and repressive administrations in power. And so we support those who don't represent our professed values whilst at the same time we fight against those who, to some extent, do. Then we wonder why things are going the way they are. I could almost laugh about it. Almost.

Organizations like Hamas (before they got into power and became tyrants, anyway) and the Muslim Brotherhood obviously have religious-political views that are problematic, but on the other hand they get/got a good part of their support simply by being less corrupt and advocating a fairer and less corrupt government, which obviously are things the West should agree with. The legitimate political activism usually involves elements that are too radical for our tastes, in other words, and so we reject the whole thing... one can debate about whether that's smart or not.
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Wait, wait WAIT! The location for the so-called "mosque at ground zero" is actually 2 blocks away?! Avendesora - 17/08/2010 03:19:02 PM 2505 Views
it's still too close!! IT'S TOO CLOSE I SAY LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 03:23:12 PM 1495 Views
*NM* ironclad - 18/08/2010 11:40:26 AM 638 Views
Yes, it is. Elaine - 17/08/2010 03:23:33 PM 1487 Views
Another stupid question...is it even actually a mosque? Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 03:28:37 PM 1348 Views
I've heard the same. nossy - 17/08/2010 03:30:36 PM 1269 Views
So Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 03:35:43 PM 1376 Views
blog link nossy - 17/08/2010 03:41:43 PM 1482 Views
that's correct *NM* damookster - 17/08/2010 03:51:38 PM 636 Views
it's both from what I've heard. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:00:54 PM 1271 Views
sort of like most churches, mosques and temples? *NM* random thoughts - 17/08/2010 04:04:12 PM 637 Views
mmm, i think more like... LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:08:55 PM 1242 Views
it is a community center with a mosque Aisha - 17/08/2010 04:28:08 PM 1134 Views
A memorial! Avendesora - 17/08/2010 04:58:52 PM 1362 Views
it is a community center with a mosque Aisha - 17/08/2010 04:28:09 PM 1317 Views
my wife's church has a play ground and community center random thoughts - 17/08/2010 04:47:52 PM 1265 Views
okay, cool then LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 05:17:04 PM 1109 Views
I was just being nit picky random thoughts - 17/08/2010 05:44:36 PM 1118 Views
Been hearing a lot on NPR nossy - 17/08/2010 03:32:42 PM 1342 Views
I could see it being insensitive if it were actually where the towers used to be. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 03:43:18 PM 1432 Views
Yeah. nossy - 17/08/2010 03:51:13 PM 1374 Views
precisely. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:02:44 PM 1213 Views
This could be part of the reason that most of the opposition doesn't seem to be coming from locals. Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 03:53:06 PM 1341 Views
seriously, it's not like property is some ample commodity in NYC *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:03:24 PM 652 Views
you should probably keep in mind.... damookster - 17/08/2010 04:02:25 PM 1367 Views
So Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 04:06:18 PM 1421 Views
Ground Zero specifically refers to the north and south towers where the planes struck... damookster - 17/08/2010 04:26:40 PM 1351 Views
don't use that term at all. Say WTC. *NM* Aeryn - 18/08/2010 12:27:32 AM 647 Views
I know. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 04:26:19 PM 1274 Views
it certainly has turned into a political land mine for Obama... damookster - 17/08/2010 03:54:03 PM 1277 Views
True nossy - 17/08/2010 04:02:04 PM 1088 Views
unfortunately... damookster - 17/08/2010 04:05:08 PM 1240 Views
That's because they are pussies. nossy - 17/08/2010 04:10:59 PM 1384 Views
This is beginning to sound familiar. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:18:37 PM 1445 Views
with the senate majority leader weighing it I don't believe it is all how it is mostly on the right random thoughts - 17/08/2010 05:58:10 PM 1349 Views
Seems we disagree on that, then. Legolas - 17/08/2010 06:05:33 PM 1330 Views
hardly the first time random thoughts - 17/08/2010 06:56:33 PM 1309 Views
Well, since day 1 of this whole debate alot of the opposition has come from the right. Variant - 17/08/2010 10:50:49 PM 1299 Views
you assume it is pandering maybe they just agree with the majority random thoughts - 18/08/2010 02:30:53 AM 1272 Views
I'm not saying it's a partisan issue, but it has turned political for all the wrong reasons. Variant - 18/08/2010 04:18:49 AM 1419 Views
is the idea that it is not to close to ground zero the misinformation you are refering to? random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:09:17 PM 1275 Views
Well, it's not like they're literally on ground zero. Variant - 18/08/2010 08:54:08 PM 1415 Views
ground zero is defined as where the old WTC complex was random thoughts - 19/08/2010 12:23:32 PM 1258 Views
And anything within a 3 block radius apparently? Variant - 20/08/2010 04:44:25 AM 1291 Views
Guess which of them will be out of a job in January? Joel - 18/08/2010 01:22:49 PM 1286 Views
the only reason Obama won't be out of job is he isn't running random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:10:58 PM 1239 Views
Oh, I dunno if you could translate the current numbers into Obamas defeat. Joel - 18/08/2010 03:52:18 PM 1308 Views
Bush's numbers were much better in 04 then Obama's are now random thoughts - 18/08/2010 04:11:31 PM 1360 Views
Perhaps so then. Joel - 19/08/2010 04:51:36 PM 1281 Views
it was a large event so two half blocks really is pretty damn close random thoughts - 17/08/2010 04:03:17 PM 1382 Views
Here's a map of the site for perspective Isaac - 17/08/2010 04:08:41 PM 1418 Views
so 2 blocks from the superblock then? LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:13:03 PM 1421 Views
I guess, superblock is an obscure term to this country lad Isaac - 17/08/2010 04:41:11 PM 1259 Views
It may not necessarily matter to people who are aware of that fact. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:13:12 PM 1237 Views
mk, well, to my mind (being from phoeni, 1 full city block is about 1 mile. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 05:15:49 PM 1302 Views
A mile is a serious exaggeration, surely. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:24:48 PM 1426 Views
Remember, I did say in Phoenix LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 05:27:43 PM 1319 Views
I really need to see Phoenix some day. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:32:40 PM 1335 Views
i still think houston is more spread out than phoenix moondog - 18/08/2010 08:21:10 AM 1342 Views
unless you go far enough west of course random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:30:45 PM 1190 Views
most of california is pretty spread out, city-wise. moondog - 19/08/2010 02:16:44 AM 1171 Views
true, I was think along the lines of San Fransico random thoughts - 19/08/2010 03:47:12 AM 1257 Views
Absolutely. Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 05:28:38 PM 1313 Views
Yeah, and it seems to be about 10 autobuses in distance on Google Earth. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:29:43 PM 1200 Views
In NYC, generally 1 mile = 20 blocks *NM* BlackAdder - 17/08/2010 05:25:21 PM 686 Views
Okay. I guess i just forget how much larger Phoenix is *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 05:28:13 PM 580 Views
Google Earth says 500 feet between mosque and GZ *NM* Isaac - 17/08/2010 05:30:59 PM 600 Views
*edit* Just for reference... one mile = 5280 feet, 500ft = approx 1/10 of a mile. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 06:26:19 PM 1279 Views
Judging by Google Earth, the blocks inbetween both contain a single large building. (edit) Legolas - 17/08/2010 07:08:05 PM 1155 Views
Clarify: 500 ft between the mosque and the border of the area on the map? *NM* Avendesora - 17/08/2010 07:03:51 PM 609 Views
Probably, given my corner-to-corner result. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 07:26:19 PM 617 Views
Yes, down West Broadway (contains old ground view from site) Isaac - 17/08/2010 07:31:58 PM 1461 Views
Personally, I think this supports Ave's point. Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 04:16:15 PM 1355 Views
yes... damookster - 17/08/2010 04:29:51 PM 1365 Views
Right. Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 04:31:29 PM 1317 Views
Believe me, honey. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 04:32:47 PM 1170 Views
Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 04:37:19 PM 1225 Views
You know what else is on Park Place? A strip club. Aeryn - 17/08/2010 11:58:56 PM 1214 Views
Really? I had no idea Isaac - 18/08/2010 12:06:27 AM 1342 Views
Re: Really? I had no idea Aeryn - 18/08/2010 12:24:54 AM 1341 Views
Hmm... Isaac - 18/08/2010 01:23:14 AM 1274 Views
I didn't even know I was responding to you. Aeryn - 18/08/2010 04:08:36 AM 1252 Views
Thanks Isaac - 18/08/2010 04:23:47 AM 1241 Views
It happens...? Joel - 18/08/2010 01:29:44 PM 1066 Views
knowing there's a strip club and "walking those streets"; seems like you've "gotten around" moondog - 18/08/2010 02:03:14 AM 1274 Views
*NM* Aeryn - 18/08/2010 04:10:10 AM 610 Views
They're building on the hallowed ground of a Burlington Coat Factory! Vodalus - 17/08/2010 04:13:06 PM 1342 Views
how so? LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:14:17 PM 1171 Views
Maybe it's got something to do with Cordoba, Spain? Avendesora - 17/08/2010 04:16:38 PM 1182 Views
From when the Moors conquered Spain Vodalus - 17/08/2010 04:18:18 PM 1406 Views
ah mk. fair enough then. *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 04:35:39 PM 725 Views
to clarify though snoopcester - 17/08/2010 04:50:19 PM 1207 Views
in that respect, I rather like the name *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 05:23:18 PM 651 Views
Yes, but you have to remember the mindset of those protesting. Vodalus - 17/08/2010 09:49:26 PM 1284 Views
Oh indeed snoopcester - 18/08/2010 10:20:45 AM 1312 Views
Oh, yeah. I foolishly assumed people would know that part. *NM* Vodalus - 18/08/2010 05:34:39 PM 614 Views
Sorry, but the card says it was "the Moops" so you must be wrong. Tom - 18/08/2010 03:56:11 PM 1270 Views
Aaaaaaaaagh Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:13:17 PM 1252 Views
*NM* Vodalus - 18/08/2010 05:31:20 PM 600 Views
Or a Christian conquest of Islam, surely. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:07:53 PM 1362 Views
Right on the button. *NM* Tim - 17/08/2010 04:19:39 PM 621 Views
Ezra Klein made a good point in the Washington Post... damookster - 17/08/2010 04:33:31 PM 1185 Views
Re: Ezra Klein made a good point in the Washington Post... Avendesora - 17/08/2010 04:34:47 PM 1218 Views
it was a rhetorical question in his column damookster - 17/08/2010 04:43:25 PM 1320 Views
that is hardly the same thing random thoughts - 17/08/2010 04:56:43 PM 1287 Views
so suppose... damookster - 17/08/2010 06:06:03 PM 1220 Views
I am sure it will I just don't see the relevance random thoughts - 17/08/2010 06:57:41 PM 1326 Views
My question is, why would you want to put a mosque/community center/thing that close? StormCrow - 17/08/2010 04:39:05 PM 1245 Views
angry New Yorkers? damookster - 17/08/2010 04:45:01 PM 1357 Views
I was going to guess 4 protests to your earlier post. StormCrow - 17/08/2010 04:50:08 PM 1327 Views
We do not live in fear of what "a few crazy people" might do. *NM* Aeryn - 18/08/2010 12:02:06 AM 588 Views
Re: angry New Yorkers? snoopcester - 17/08/2010 04:53:58 PM 1239 Views
I was wondering about that. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 04:56:28 PM 1361 Views
Re: I was wondering about that. snoopcester - 17/08/2010 05:05:50 PM 1324 Views
interesting map, thanks for posting it. *NM* Avendesora - 17/08/2010 05:55:06 PM 668 Views
That's a good point too and I didn't think about that. StormCrow - 17/08/2010 05:39:53 PM 1437 Views
I think what this position misses Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 05:01:52 PM 1489 Views
Ok, sure. StormCrow - 17/08/2010 06:09:33 PM 1349 Views
Hoboken? The_Muted_Grimaud - 17/08/2010 09:06:07 PM 1169 Views
Indeed. Not a serious suggestion about putting it there. StormCrow - 17/08/2010 09:13:35 PM 1156 Views
angry New Yorkers? Geez, we are more civilized than that, thank you. *NM* Aeryn - 18/08/2010 12:01:12 AM 589 Views
not really *NM* random thoughts - 18/08/2010 02:31:46 AM 502 Views
your opinion is noted. now go eff yourself. *NM* Aeryn - 18/08/2010 04:11:25 AM 549 Views
that's pretty good BlackAdder - 18/08/2010 04:44:14 AM 1252 Views
That's right. Why resort to violence when a good rant will do? *NM* Aeryn - 18/08/2010 06:09:27 AM 567 Views
and a heart fuck off to you but thanks for the ironic reply *NM* random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:18:25 PM 593 Views
How is it ironic? *NM* Camilla - 18/08/2010 03:43:50 PM 611 Views
How was his uncivilized response ironic? *NM* random thoughts - 18/08/2010 04:18:17 PM 570 Views
Yes. Where is the irony? Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:20:57 PM 1196 Views
Re: How was his uncivilized response ironic? random thoughts - 18/08/2010 04:23:25 PM 1197 Views
Aaah Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:31:02 PM 1255 Views
Re: Aaah random thoughts - 18/08/2010 05:30:07 PM 1201 Views
Re: Aaah Camilla - 18/08/2010 05:38:47 PM 1267 Views
To both of you: her. And she. *NM* Legolas - 18/08/2010 05:44:03 PM 594 Views
I knew that. *NM* Camilla - 18/08/2010 05:45:21 PM 574 Views
I'm not a New Yorker. Not impuning your civility either. StormCrow - 19/08/2010 02:45:55 AM 1441 Views
Because the building is cheap as hell, because they're mostly abandoned in those areas Jragghen - 18/08/2010 01:25:13 AM 1280 Views
Something I'm confused on Isaac - 17/08/2010 04:59:41 PM 1513 Views
another thing to consider. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 05:02:38 PM 1224 Views
You'll have to explain to me what that has to do with what I said Isaac - 17/08/2010 05:10:21 PM 1227 Views
I don't think anyone is saying it's not "near" ground zero. Sareitha Sedai - 17/08/2010 05:12:52 PM 1298 Views
Of course you're confused. It was a tangental thought. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 06:06:29 PM 1275 Views
Fair enough, I can't really criticize others for going off on tangents since I do it so much *NM* Isaac - 17/08/2010 06:36:54 PM 594 Views
On that tangent though, an interesting article Isaac - 17/08/2010 07:50:44 PM 1305 Views
From what I understand, there's another mosque very close to the site Brian - 17/08/2010 05:06:26 PM 1396 Views
I understand there's also a strip club and a xxx movie rental shop within that same 2 blocks radius. Legolas - 17/08/2010 05:09:26 PM 1275 Views
Looks like 2 or 3 blocks, I love Google Earth Isaac - 17/08/2010 05:17:01 PM 1323 Views
True but the buildings were not nocked down by radical strippers *NM* random thoughts - 17/08/2010 05:52:04 PM 596 Views
Joss Whedon purchased the rights to this movie already. *NM* StormCrow - 17/08/2010 06:29:34 PM 654 Views
*NM* Avendesora - 17/08/2010 06:38:27 PM 578 Views
Yep. Is true. *NM* Aeryn - 17/08/2010 11:59:31 PM 610 Views
What do strip clubs and dirty movies and gay bars have to do with 9/11? *NM* ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 12:33:59 AM 615 Views
Nothing, which is precisely the point. *NM* Legolas - 18/08/2010 12:37:52 AM 622 Views
Can you explain your point to me then? Because I'm not following it. ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 01:21:13 AM 1207 Views
The argument is that it's "hallowed ground" and therefore should be treated with "respect" Jragghen - 18/08/2010 01:26:44 AM 1370 Views
No. That might be one argument, but hardly the only one. ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 01:31:14 AM 1355 Views
Pretty much what Greg said. Legolas - 18/08/2010 09:39:33 AM 1278 Views
then you are missing the point random thoughts - 18/08/2010 04:02:49 PM 1353 Views
In all fairness... Variant - 18/08/2010 09:46:26 PM 1290 Views
these guys are not babes in the woods random thoughts - 19/08/2010 12:28:24 PM 1172 Views
I never said they were. Variant - 20/08/2010 04:56:53 AM 1304 Views
Respond/Double post. *NM* Variant - 20/08/2010 04:57:25 AM 536 Views
This whole debate disgusts me. Napoleon62 - 17/08/2010 05:24:56 PM 1452 Views
I'm not going to ask why. *NM* Avendesora - 17/08/2010 06:21:13 PM 581 Views
Agreed Camilla - 17/08/2010 08:10:34 PM 1413 Views
Yep, I see a lot of ugliness in this discussion ironclad - 18/08/2010 11:42:34 AM 1251 Views
Jon Stewart made good point last night Aisha - 17/08/2010 05:34:19 PM 1326 Views
but it's the CONCEPT!!! practical effect is not the POINT of political debate!! *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 05:53:30 PM 604 Views
which is why Obama was crazy to get anywhere this issue random thoughts - 17/08/2010 06:01:44 PM 1203 Views
He's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't Brian - 17/08/2010 06:18:16 PM 1219 Views
that really isn't true random thoughts - 17/08/2010 07:09:29 PM 1290 Views
yah he really should have just stayed mum about it LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 07:37:03 PM 1274 Views
Ye gods, I agree with you AND CELIA! Joel - 18/08/2010 01:36:21 PM 1424 Views
double post random thoughts - 17/08/2010 06:01:44 PM 1228 Views
Hatemongers gotta hate. Beqi - 17/08/2010 07:43:17 PM 1283 Views
More than anything, I see this being a sensitivity issue.... Jeordam - 17/08/2010 07:43:45 PM 1255 Views
Avendesora - 17/08/2010 07:52:07 PM 1266 Views
Right on. Jeordam - 17/08/2010 08:09:44 PM 1203 Views
yah, it sounds like the builders aren't being very thoughtful in their PR. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 08:12:20 PM 1004 Views
yah, it sounds like the builders aren't being very thoughtful in their PR. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 08:12:21 PM 1274 Views
The crux is they can't HELP stirring "up the grief and pain of the past. " Joel - 18/08/2010 01:49:21 PM 1343 Views
are you serious? Aisha - 17/08/2010 08:01:01 PM 1357 Views
I think you got the point right there. Beqi - 17/08/2010 08:08:21 PM 1265 Views
Yes, I am... Jeordam - 17/08/2010 08:14:27 PM 1247 Views
The point is your analogy does not hold Camilla - 17/08/2010 08:19:29 PM 1248 Views
Plus snoopcester - 17/08/2010 08:26:36 PM 1301 Views
Yes. That. *NM* Camilla - 17/08/2010 08:28:14 PM 1162 Views
we should all learn pool saftey from pigeons and sparrows. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 08:37:37 PM 1180 Views
Sicko! snoopcester - 17/08/2010 08:48:05 PM 1236 Views
Re: Yes, I am... Aisha - 17/08/2010 08:42:27 PM 1306 Views
Just to be a pain in the... StormCrow - 17/08/2010 09:10:11 PM 1272 Views
Aren't they? Jeordam - 17/08/2010 09:19:58 PM 1328 Views
You may be interested in... Legolas - 17/08/2010 09:23:48 PM 1422 Views
*nods* So I was right.... Jeordam - 17/08/2010 09:26:59 PM 1135 Views
actually, it depends on the extent of the burning. LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 11:01:11 PM 1220 Views
That is probably not fair snoopcester - 17/08/2010 11:12:22 PM 1236 Views
I know! ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 03:06:25 AM 1245 Views
it's all relative. nossy - 18/08/2010 03:33:35 AM 1364 Views
Using a touch of hyperbole, perhaps? snoopcester - 18/08/2010 10:18:36 AM 1281 Views
I'm so proud of you for noticing! ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 10:48:14 AM 1333 Views
Just making sure you knew I wasn't mistaking your reply for a constructive one snoopcester - 18/08/2010 12:08:41 PM 1221 Views
I give constuctive replies where they are due ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 12:30:42 PM 1296 Views
snoopcester - 18/08/2010 12:33:57 PM 1259 Views
ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 12:41:27 PM 1318 Views
Hey Snoop... ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 12:47:13 PM 1322 Views
What the hell were these people smoking? Joel - 18/08/2010 02:14:44 PM 1421 Views
COMPLETELY unrelated point that I don't blame you for ignoring... beckstcw - 19/08/2010 04:25:31 AM 1172 Views
And yet that's very close to what MADD and SADD do. Joel - 18/08/2010 01:56:51 PM 1399 Views
you are right of course random thoughts - 17/08/2010 08:22:23 PM 1218 Views
Re: you are right of course Aisha - 17/08/2010 08:34:31 PM 1399 Views
I agree. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 08:46:07 PM 1181 Views
you could be correct but it still shows a lack of sensitivity random thoughts - 17/08/2010 09:34:46 PM 1410 Views
I don't disagree that it's a sensitivity thing LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 08:10:01 PM 1375 Views
Re: I don't disagree that it's a sensitivity thing *NM* Aisha - 17/08/2010 08:29:59 PM 547 Views
This. Avendesora - 17/08/2010 08:31:17 PM 1273 Views
So, you're saying muslims should leave nyc to show their sensitivity, right? BlackAdder - 17/08/2010 10:31:55 PM 1181 Views
so your saying you always speak in over the top rhetoric? random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:22:20 PM 1080 Views
Well explain what the difference is, then BlackAdder - 18/08/2010 07:14:46 PM 1229 Views
not really sure how to start random thoughts - 18/08/2010 08:23:34 PM 1299 Views
THANK YOU ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 01:13:16 AM 1326 Views
Take deep breaths.. Variant - 18/08/2010 05:25:16 AM 1232 Views
Typing a post didn't really require all that much effort ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 06:13:15 AM 1321 Views
There are more important things in the world to worry about Ghavrel - 18/08/2010 08:51:35 AM 1292 Views
I do get angry over other things, you know ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 10:02:02 AM 1283 Views
Pretty much, yeah. Ghavrel - 18/08/2010 09:00:09 PM 1272 Views
I disagree, anger doesn't help in this debate, and it's only going to make things worse. Variant - 18/08/2010 10:56:30 AM 1300 Views
: Joel - 18/08/2010 02:52:51 PM 1382 Views
So what, the Americans supporting this mosque are "arrogant European pricks"? Legolas - 18/08/2010 10:12:51 AM 1124 Views
Kind of a stretch for you to make that assumption ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 11:31:16 AM 1303 Views
I hadn't read that other exchange yet, it made more sense after that. Legolas - 18/08/2010 12:35:18 PM 1336 Views
My only real objection is the same old one over whether respect is an entitlement. Joel - 18/08/2010 02:21:19 PM 1165 Views
A mosque was built in the Pentagon months after 9/11 Jragghen - 18/08/2010 01:23:11 AM 1315 Views
Here comes the "xenophobia card." ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 01:27:50 AM 1314 Views
Which is why there was a bombing at another mosque earlier this year Jragghen - 18/08/2010 01:31:51 AM 1244 Views
So? ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 01:39:49 AM 1335 Views
Re: A mosque was built in the Pentagon months after 9/11 BlackAdder - 18/08/2010 01:28:44 AM 1384 Views
Re: A mosque was built in the Pentagon months after 9/11 Jragghen - 18/08/2010 01:34:22 AM 1324 Views
I think a better parallel would be the new neighbors opening a pool store. Joel - 18/08/2010 01:40:42 PM 1341 Views
A guy on CNN made a really good point about this Aisha - 17/08/2010 08:46:54 PM 1355 Views
That analogy really isn't better than Jeo's, and I would think worse. *NM* Legolas - 17/08/2010 09:02:50 PM 600 Views
hmm yes but that black man hadn't killed his dog LadyLorraine - 17/08/2010 09:22:15 PM 1292 Views
Re: hmm yes but that black man hadn't killed his dog Aisha - 17/08/2010 10:32:24 PM 1427 Views
precisely. Camilla - 17/08/2010 11:20:06 PM 1162 Views
Re: precisely. Aisha - 18/08/2010 01:32:09 AM 1255 Views
Re: precisely. Camilla - 18/08/2010 09:10:33 AM 1266 Views
not surprising that a guy on CNN made that point random thoughts - 17/08/2010 09:38:16 PM 1355 Views
Yeah this whole debate is pretty pointless to be completely honest BlackAdder - 17/08/2010 10:28:13 PM 1310 Views
An interesting point Vodalus - 18/08/2010 03:44:52 AM 1323 Views
In fairness, it's extremely hard to draw that line sometimes. Legolas - 18/08/2010 10:27:24 AM 1230 Views
well we have been shot at from enough mosque to make it hard to tell at times random thoughts - 18/08/2010 08:25:58 PM 1298 Views
I think this whole debate has made American look bad. Variant - 17/08/2010 10:58:23 PM 1214 Views
So what? ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 12:28:40 AM 1270 Views
Okay, so we're no longer the land of religous tolerance. Variant - 18/08/2010 04:09:24 AM 1487 Views
Were we ever? ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 04:18:16 AM 1440 Views
I guess not. Variant - 18/08/2010 04:25:03 AM 1400 Views
Re: I guess not. ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 05:56:49 AM 1262 Views
Re: I guess not. Variant - 18/08/2010 10:43:05 AM 1256 Views
Re: I guess not. ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 12:13:37 PM 1079 Views
Re: I guess not. Variant - 18/08/2010 09:30:21 PM 1195 Views
Yes, we were. Joel - 18/08/2010 02:34:39 PM 1247 Views
How does this work, do you only look bad to a bunch of ass wipes, or does anyone who thinks you look Helene - 18/08/2010 09:38:28 AM 1203 Views
Olberman's Special Comment on this one hits the nail on the head Jragghen - 18/08/2010 01:29:45 AM 1318 Views
love that the Olberman video, but Jon Stewart did an awesome job too. *NM* Aisha - 18/08/2010 01:32:59 AM 541 Views
Olbermann and Stewart are possibly the two best people alive *NM* Napoleon62 - 18/08/2010 02:39:48 AM 638 Views
they make the top of my list for people I wnat to catch an STD *NM* random thoughts - 18/08/2010 08:27:27 PM 575 Views
Let me just say... Legolas - 18/08/2010 09:20:38 PM 1290 Views
Re: Let me just say... Camilla - 18/08/2010 09:22:12 PM 1262 Views
I didn't watch that particular video, so maybe, yeah. *NM* Legolas - 18/08/2010 10:11:22 PM 615 Views
Re: I didn't watch that particular video, so maybe, yeah. Camilla - 18/08/2010 10:45:54 PM 1314 Views
O'Reilly isn't as bad as he's made out to be. (edit) Legolas - 18/08/2010 11:10:33 PM 1298 Views
I'm pretty sure I agree with you. nossy - 18/08/2010 10:48:09 PM 1200 Views
Why is it weird? Legolas - 18/08/2010 11:00:20 PM 1272 Views
dayum! thats like the ultimate insult *NM* Aisha - 19/08/2010 03:37:53 AM 561 Views
Stewart is great, but Olberman? You can't be serious. *NM* damookster - 18/08/2010 11:23:17 PM 647 Views
I love that poem Camilla - 18/08/2010 12:26:58 PM 1397 Views
I used to be so Idealistic to think this was AMERICA. StarrBecca - 18/08/2010 01:44:38 AM 1354 Views
It is America ßelals Girl - 18/08/2010 01:49:35 AM 1344 Views
the key phrase is "congress shall make no law...." moondog - 18/08/2010 02:23:53 AM 1375 Views
14th ammendment changed that *NM* Roland00 - 18/08/2010 04:51:08 AM 582 Views
14th ammendment established a state religion? moondog - 18/08/2010 08:14:11 AM 1194 Views
No, but the Equal Protection Clause extended much of the BoR to the states. Joel - 18/08/2010 02:50:31 PM 1316 Views
did you go the the Huffington Post school of law? random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:29:14 PM 1240 Views
No, but I've spent more time around lawyers than I care to admit. Joel - 18/08/2010 03:45:36 PM 1335 Views
the defendent doesn't always get a complete picture *NM* random thoughts - 18/08/2010 04:25:36 PM 582 Views
The only time I was ever in a courtroom was as a spectator. Joel - 19/08/2010 04:33:56 PM 1322 Views
It was meant to be a short comment Roland00 - 19/08/2010 01:13:39 AM 1350 Views
we also have freedom of speech random thoughts - 18/08/2010 03:25:52 PM 1202 Views
The connection is inevitable and, I think, deliberate. Joel - 18/08/2010 01:15:41 PM 1355 Views
Hmm snoopcester - 18/08/2010 02:26:17 PM 1200 Views
Bottom line is it may be in everyones interest to DISassociate Islam from 911. Joel - 18/08/2010 02:58:17 PM 1256 Views
No, bottom line is people need to be able to keep to thoughts in their brains at any given time *NM* Camilla - 18/08/2010 03:31:03 PM 574 Views
You mean retain both "I want to promote Islam" AND "Dude, Ground Zero is right THERE! *points*" Joel - 18/08/2010 03:36:34 PM 1238 Views
No Camilla - 18/08/2010 03:43:08 PM 1268 Views
They clearly are tied to it. Joel - 18/08/2010 03:59:45 PM 1306 Views
How long ago were the Crusades? Jeordam - 18/08/2010 03:48:53 PM 1199 Views
Re: How long ago were the Crusades? Camilla - 18/08/2010 03:52:23 PM 1238 Views
So wait... Jeordam - 18/08/2010 04:09:10 PM 1170 Views
Yes, Jerodam. Christians are good. All the rest are bad. I see it now. Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:10:47 PM 1270 Views
Stop freaking out Camilla. You are such a drama queen some times. Jeordam - 18/08/2010 04:15:06 PM 1219 Views
That is not drama. That is fed up. *NM* Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:16:32 PM 643 Views
You're not the only one who is fed up.... Jeordam - 18/08/2010 04:24:27 PM 1099 Views
*giggle* Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:29:03 PM 1279 Views
We don't know that.... Jeordam - 18/08/2010 05:40:25 PM 1272 Views
We do nossy - 18/08/2010 05:49:33 PM 1376 Views
Re: You're not the only one who is fed up.... Helene - 18/08/2010 04:38:04 PM 1287 Views
This may be nitpicking, but I'll do it anyway because it's a widespread misconception... Legolas - 18/08/2010 04:30:20 PM 1213 Views
THANK YOU! Aisha - 18/08/2010 06:11:52 PM 1152 Views
Re: So wait... snoopcester - 18/08/2010 04:45:53 PM 1222 Views
I agreed with you at first - thought your first post was pretty insightful. nossy - 18/08/2010 05:46:02 PM 1250 Views
maybe it is actions that led to the crusades that never ended random thoughts - 19/08/2010 12:25:20 PM 1120 Views
I have to agree with Jeo that that's unfair. Joel - 19/08/2010 02:47:23 PM 1440 Views
The Crusades were by Christendom as a whole*, 9-11 isn't similar for Islam by some way snoopcester - 18/08/2010 04:04:54 PM 1249 Views
Re: The Crusades were by Christendom as a whole*, 9-11 isn't similar for Islam by some way Camilla - 18/08/2010 04:11:34 PM 1254 Views
Depends whom you ask, when and where. Joel - 19/08/2010 03:06:18 PM 1182 Views
Right snoopcester - 20/08/2010 10:31:21 AM 1246 Views
Some people will always wonder about such things; we're still accused of "Crusading" today. Joel - 18/08/2010 04:07:02 PM 1244 Views
I don't disagree about the outreach, as such, but a remark... Legolas - 18/08/2010 04:37:52 PM 1120 Views
It's as much a local issue as the theme park Disney wanted to build at Gettysburg. Joel - 19/08/2010 03:15:03 PM 1166 Views
Have you ever BEEN to Gettysburg? SilverWarder - 19/08/2010 05:21:18 PM 1101 Views
A bit more background information Vodalus - 18/08/2010 05:30:04 PM 1394 Views
That's informative, thanks, but I'm not sure it really changes anything. Joel - 19/08/2010 03:27:05 PM 1168 Views
Step One: Manufacture controversey by means of misinformation (i.e. Mosque at Ground Zero) Vodalus - 19/08/2010 06:40:49 PM 1379 Views
To be fair snoopcester - 20/08/2010 10:38:01 AM 1318 Views
The location of this mosque is a horrid idea. Joel - 21/08/2010 05:34:58 PM 1175 Views
"Think of it as a center for muslim hippies." Jragghen - 18/08/2010 09:30:55 PM 1282 Views
Can I just say... LadyLorraine - 19/08/2010 01:45:38 AM 1147 Views
i have a side bar *NM* Aisha - 19/08/2010 03:36:10 AM 499 Views
you must have a teeny screen or a bad resolution LadyLorraine - 19/08/2010 05:03:57 AM 1222 Views
I know. Avendesora - 19/08/2010 12:20:11 PM 1302 Views
Roughly 2 football fields, yes. And around a corner SilverWarder - 19/08/2010 03:17:24 PM 1262 Views
Two hundred yards is nothing. Joel - 19/08/2010 04:44:34 PM 1210 Views
Sure it is - it's two large city blocks SilverWarder - 19/08/2010 05:15:46 PM 1263 Views
It's two fairly average city blocks, and not even that some places. Joel - 21/08/2010 06:07:33 PM 1223 Views
Well you can not like it if you choose SilverWarder - 25/08/2010 03:39:49 PM 1625 Views
You keep stating that this isn't about Islam. Libby - 20/08/2010 11:06:10 AM 1316 Views
That's because it's not. Joel - 21/08/2010 06:17:29 PM 1337 Views
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