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Except there doesn't seem to be any conflict between either position. Joel Send a noteboard - 20/08/2010 10:06:20 AM
And maybe that highlights the fact Obamas deficiencies aren't our only problem. He goes out and asserts the freedom of all Americans to worship as they please (a freedom he's legally obligated to defend) including by building this mosque, but never endorses it, so the right attacks him as soft on terrorism. Then he goes out and explicitly states that he wasn't giving his blessing or stating his personal opinion, only reiterating his responsibility as President, and so he's attacked from the left for being cowardly. In other words, BOTH sides have criticized two paraphrases of the same statement simply because each chose at different times to attach different meanings to those statements, meanings that go far beyond what the statements actually proclaim.

I find it particularly interesting since I don't have time these days to follow every single political speech, but, on the subject of his first statement, just the other day on this board I said pretty much the same thing he did in his second statement. It was really easy for me to understand the statement as he meant it: I just had to read what he SAID, instead of what I THOUGHT he said or WISHED he'd said. There is a school of thought that says he's still trying to keep his private opinion of the mosque to himself--but y'know what? He has the right to do that so long as he continues to uphold the law in his public capacity.

He never should have opened his mouth on the matter; the only thing that could result is exactly what's happened. He wasn't going to magically science the critics or convince the builders that MAYBE a different site would better serve their ecumenical and multicultural goals. But regardless of the wisdom of commenting, the comments he's made--both of them--seem perfectly fine to me.
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An amusing column on the NYC mosque by Maureen Dowd.... - 20/08/2010 12:33:27 AM 1470 Views
wow, that was an interesting read - 20/08/2010 02:03:52 AM 835 Views
Gingrich thinks he is a deep thinker? - 20/08/2010 09:42:15 AM 686 Views
We've been through this, too, haven't we? - 20/08/2010 10:12:15 AM 978 Views
He makes historical references as often as possible, or at least in pretty much everything I've seen - 20/08/2010 12:37:02 PM 815 Views
As he was a history professor and writes histories and alternate histories, this is not surprising - 20/08/2010 05:33:48 PM 982 Views
I'm aware of that - 20/08/2010 11:47:32 PM 707 Views
Re: I'm aware of that - 21/08/2010 12:40:29 AM 994 Views
Re: I'm aware of that - 21/08/2010 01:19:37 AM 856 Views
Re: I'm aware of that - 21/08/2010 01:59:48 AM 738 Views
Conservatives love Rome. I don't know why. - 21/08/2010 01:20:27 AM 792 Views
Rome was more often than not governed by aristocrats and did, after all, invent the republic. - 21/08/2010 04:50:53 PM 1121 Views
"One man, one vote" always reminds me of Pratchett - 21/08/2010 05:03:35 PM 768 Views
Me too *NM* - 21/08/2010 06:53:22 PM 486 Views
Except there doesn't seem to be any conflict between either position. - 20/08/2010 10:06:20 AM 933 Views
When has logical consistency trumped politics? *NM* - 20/08/2010 01:50:55 PM 392 Views
True, but it does mean there's no "there" there. - 20/08/2010 02:41:49 PM 746 Views
He has to learn he needs to be crystal clear on sensitive issues - 20/08/2010 02:03:43 PM 991 Views
In Washington, one must always present the APPEARANCE of integrity... - 20/08/2010 02:40:24 PM 876 Views
Clinton lied about the BJ but what is your airtight proof that Bush lied? - 20/08/2010 07:44:53 PM 942 Views
Ask and ye shall receive: - 21/08/2010 06:42:50 PM 1117 Views
This is a bit along the lines of what I have been thinking. - 20/08/2010 07:49:15 PM 965 Views
that sort of illustrates the problem - 20/08/2010 08:56:42 PM 812 Views
It does - 22/08/2010 04:56:54 PM 722 Views
Can't find anything now on the context of the second statement. - 21/08/2010 05:05:51 PM 855 Views
I didn't see the problem either. He was simply stating the obvious. - 21/08/2010 01:39:44 AM 702 Views
maybe - 21/08/2010 02:49:40 AM 951 Views
Wow that is probably the best Dowd column I have ever read - 21/08/2010 01:35:36 AM 726 Views
Yes, his backtracking was quite pussy-ish. *NM* - 21/08/2010 04:00:31 AM 349 Views
How did he "backtrack" exactly? - 21/08/2010 04:35:33 PM 1007 Views
c'mon Joel. are you being intentionally thick? - 21/08/2010 05:02:27 PM 1025 Views
Having read those quotes I don't think he was backtracking on anything. (With link to speech) - 22/08/2010 06:27:06 AM 982 Views
*NM* - 22/08/2010 01:37:23 PM 389 Views
did you take into your consideration - 22/08/2010 03:50:59 PM 719 Views
I can't imagine why they would express concern over it. It wasn't controversial. That is on them - 22/08/2010 03:58:32 PM 920 Views
that would be - 22/08/2010 04:02:08 PM 1011 Views
But quote B just reiterated what he said the first time. - 22/08/2010 04:13:21 PM 841 Views
I agree he is not backtracking - 22/08/2010 06:49:36 PM 829 Views
I agree with you, Joel and Tash on this one. - 22/08/2010 07:52:34 PM 890 Views
While we're picking sides, I'm with Mook and Roland. - 22/08/2010 08:20:11 PM 757 Views
I never fail to be impressed with your intelligence - 22/08/2010 08:25:11 PM 907 Views
I like how he's got rhetorical talents when it works - 22/08/2010 08:32:15 PM 779 Views
nope just human *NM* - 22/08/2010 08:37:17 PM 418 Views
that's not what Paul just said. - 22/08/2010 08:42:24 PM 843 Views
He couldn't stay out, no. - 22/08/2010 08:56:47 PM 879 Views
I don't want to argue with you on a Sunday, my religion says I have to relax. - 22/08/2010 09:03:54 PM 899 Views
key word: seem - 22/08/2010 09:06:40 PM 815 Views
I was only using that term for you guys. I don't feel like beating you with a rolling pin until you - 22/08/2010 09:14:39 PM 716 Views
good thing - 22/08/2010 09:39:52 PM 1113 Views
he could have and should have stayed out - 22/08/2010 09:57:57 PM 851 Views
I think he's certainly got rhetoric talents... - 22/08/2010 08:54:11 PM 1278 Views
You don't really seem like you're taking a side to me. - 22/08/2010 09:14:02 PM 935 Views
I'm not even taking the time to comment on something so obvious as what he did. *NM* - 22/08/2010 02:53:10 AM 473 Views
Except, of course, that you just did. - 22/08/2010 12:30:00 PM 851 Views
Joel - 22/08/2010 05:37:45 AM 1033 Views
That last line was golden. *NM* - 22/08/2010 05:40:56 AM 442 Views
His phrasing in the first speech implied that it was a bad idea. But legally they have the right. - 22/08/2010 06:32:59 AM 948 Views
nonsense - 22/08/2010 03:39:30 PM 893 Views
I still don't see how it can be misinterpreted except by intent by the listener. - 22/08/2010 04:08:52 PM 868 Views
so we have reached the point of no return... - 22/08/2010 04:18:46 PM 877 Views
In your case it would have to be number 2. - 22/08/2010 07:38:20 PM 852 Views
ah, but I have no agenda here... - 22/08/2010 07:41:59 PM 684 Views
lol.<3 - 22/08/2010 08:49:35 PM 861 Views
that it is... - 22/08/2010 08:57:05 PM 831 Views
Tash you are very much a fair person in this world - 22/08/2010 08:34:38 PM 952 Views
Or there is another option: 3) He was using tact. - 22/08/2010 09:01:49 PM 857 Views
On the off chance that this: - 23/08/2010 12:38:48 AM 1050 Views
I do remember your reply... - 23/08/2010 02:57:29 AM 1276 Views
Lies, prevarication and deceit again, eh? - 22/08/2010 01:17:45 PM 1345 Views
that was a decent explanation.... - 22/08/2010 05:18:18 PM 795 Views
Thanks. - 22/08/2010 05:41:28 PM 857 Views
I do feel bad for them - 22/08/2010 08:40:36 PM 751 Views
Re: Joel - 22/08/2010 07:53:51 PM 893 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 22/08/2010 08:25:38 PM 543 Views

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