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Re: I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Zalis Send a noteboard - 01/09/2010 03:09:46 PM
The death and resurrection of Christ allow Christians to put a targeting system on our bows. I don't view sin as a commodity that's bought and sold; that's an interpretation of the Western churches that, to my knowledge, is not held by the Orthodox. Theoria is so much more hopeful and worthy than the repugnant "total depravity" of Calvinism.


So Jesus died so that we could "do better?" I think it has more to do with the post-salvation indwelling of the Holy Spirit than it does with anything inherently human. We were created in the image of God, but I think it has a lot more to do with volition and our capacity for relational intimacy (read: not sexual intimacy).

We miss the mark. Christ doesn't magically wave away all we've done; He lets us try again. Christians hold that we're made in the image of God. It's a pity they view that image with such contempt.


Because of the emphasis those adherents place on <our> works after the fact. It's all through God's power, not our own. The Holy Spirit can bring about great change in our hearts and lives, but we're still not to depend on our own perceived merits.

Universal salvation has been posited since Origen, by the way, so you might want to read up on that before casually dismissing it as a new, meaningless thing. Personally, I worship God out o thanksgiving and not fear, and I find the relationship to be liberating, rewarding, and holy. But I'm a young Episcopalian.


Solomon was wise to say there's nothing new under the sun, so I'm not about to say that age is immune from error. (he also thought Demons would be reconciled with God) I don't profess that anyone is following a 100% correct interpretation in every aspect, but there are reasons why I am not a Greek Orthodox or Episcopalian. (or a Catholic, etc)

In the end, so long as we worship the same Christ and agree that salvation comes only through His death & resurrection on the cross, we're on the same team. Or in the same city. A different team or country would be a camp that says humanity is inherently good, that Jesus was just a nice prophet who taught us to be excellent to each other. That life is about our good deeds outweighing bad on some celestial scale, to be accounted for in the after. Stuff like that.

So, saying that, I apologize for any sense of antagonism that may have been reflected in the earlier post. This forum is typically a pretty hostile place in regard to Biblical truth, and the "Word, brutha" thread had mock replies on my mind.
The sword might be grateful to the forge fire, but never fond of it.
This message last edited by Zalis on 01/09/2010 at 03:24:27 PM
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Preaching the Word: You're doing it wrong. Dannymac - 31/08/2010 08:22:14 AM 1489 Views
Danny if you were my preacher... LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 12:42:59 PM 939 Views
Lots of good stuff Bramhodoulos - 31/08/2010 12:43:57 PM 920 Views
True enough. Dannymac - 31/08/2010 04:29:23 PM 1026 Views
Maybe it's just where you're coming from... Bramhodoulos - 31/08/2010 06:34:09 PM 869 Views
I like it SilverWarder - 31/08/2010 02:48:31 PM 712 Views
I really <3 you. @my - 31/08/2010 03:09:39 PM 894 Views
How much of that is your words? random thoughts - 31/08/2010 03:16:51 PM 996 Views
he is a preacher LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 03:19:44 PM 983 Views
Most of it. Dannymac - 31/08/2010 04:26:24 PM 837 Views
Well done. *NM* Missa Sedai - 31/08/2010 04:46:54 PM 545 Views
I find myself disgusted that... globug0822 - 31/08/2010 05:12:06 PM 941 Views
he's a peachy preacher? LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 05:27:08 PM 934 Views
LOL globug0822 - 31/08/2010 08:31:45 PM 854 Views
Is my church the exception? Jeordam - 31/08/2010 05:33:36 PM 916 Views
Believe it or not... Dannymac - 31/08/2010 06:58:56 PM 873 Views
I'm not so full of myself.... Jeordam - 31/08/2010 07:14:29 PM 992 Views
I wouldn't blame you much if you did... Dannymac - 31/08/2010 07:18:19 PM 796 Views
A little fire & brimstone for thy stomach's sake? Jeordam - 31/08/2010 07:29:20 PM 827 Views
passionate preachers make me uneasy. LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 08:38:05 PM 721 Views
Passion doesn't need to be... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 03:50:22 PM 986 Views
Why do you take what he says so personally? Francie - 01/09/2010 08:51:06 PM 965 Views
I'm not taking anything personally.... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:20:55 PM 1338 Views
good question,why would they? LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:32:25 PM 911 Views
Your assumption... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:44:28 PM 1058 Views
Look him in the eye? LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:59:02 PM 837 Views
Ok... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 10:34:56 PM 955 Views
so you would not say a murderer would go to heaven? LadyLorraine - 02/09/2010 12:21:10 AM 904 Views
Forgiveness and repentance are humanity's most noble qualities. Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 12:48:02 AM 832 Views
Isn't love your big thing? Jeordam - 02/09/2010 07:17:30 PM 1032 Views
yah I know. I just always feel like they're trying to sell me something. *NM* LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:09:13 PM 467 Views
Wouldn't this be.... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:22:27 PM 882 Views
nah, i generally feel that way about that particular behavior. it's not exclusive to preachers *NM* LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:29:23 PM 513 Views
Re: I wouldn't blame you much if you did... Camilla - 01/09/2010 12:40:20 PM 990 Views
*throws panties at you* globug0822 - 31/08/2010 08:35:13 PM 856 Views
There are churches where people throw panties at each other? random thoughts - 31/08/2010 09:42:17 PM 872 Views
I think you would also have to move to where she lives. I don't know any ones that do that here... *NM* Tashmere - 31/08/2010 09:47:21 PM 510 Views
I could just visit random thoughts - 31/08/2010 09:55:50 PM 887 Views
but it'd be fun to WATCH LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 10:02:58 PM 847 Views
if the panties are the size of revival tents it wouldn't be all that fun *NM* random thoughts - 31/08/2010 10:20:32 PM 436 Views
Why sure it would SilverWarder - 01/09/2010 06:57:05 AM 1009 Views
The Church of Tom Jones. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 31/08/2010 10:22:59 PM 472 Views
(as if this was the first time) I remember that night at kit & wooly's place..... *NM* Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:51:17 PM 495 Views
I can't speak for everyone LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 08:40:12 PM 1011 Views
Testify Sistah Gaylen! Francie - 01/09/2010 02:47:50 PM 1049 Views
Contemplate this then.... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 03:40:55 PM 862 Views
Re: Believe it or not... TaskmasterJack - 31/08/2010 10:22:20 PM 936 Views
I never thought I could feel so free ee eeee *NM* Francie - 01/09/2010 02:48:18 PM 497 Views
As always, Danu - 31/08/2010 06:04:19 PM 969 Views
If people don't see their need for Jesus as savior, we're doing it wrong. Zalis - 31/08/2010 08:44:36 PM 1011 Views
Well, at least you didn't include the vague "personal." Ghavrel - 31/08/2010 08:59:55 PM 861 Views
....what? LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 09:02:05 PM 859 Views
'Far as I can tell, it was a mock reply. *NM* Zalis - 31/08/2010 09:04:16 PM 445 Views
...ah...blagh. *NM* LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 09:07:00 PM 506 Views
It wasn't. *NM* Ghavrel - 31/08/2010 09:56:35 PM 495 Views
The word used for "sin" in the New Testament is ἁμαρτία, which means "to miss the mark." Ghavrel - 31/08/2010 10:02:04 PM 771 Views
ahhh I see. That's interesting! *NM* LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 10:03:35 PM 487 Views
Re: The word used for "sin" in the New Testament is ἁμαρτία, which means "to miss the mark." Zalis - 31/08/2010 10:29:16 PM 1020 Views
I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Ghavrel - 01/09/2010 02:49:24 AM 873 Views
*picks up the thrown glove* Dannymac - 01/09/2010 03:44:53 AM 1019 Views
You didn't say anything I disagree with. Ghavrel - 01/09/2010 05:02:59 AM 884 Views
One of your statements suma great deal of Christianity, actually LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 12:39:52 PM 885 Views
So then in your estimation.... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 03:52:12 PM 1098 Views
From what I do know... LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 07:33:14 PM 1011 Views
How about some homework first? Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:32:32 PM 1091 Views
You do understand LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:35:25 PM 867 Views
You'd be suprised... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:50:12 PM 799 Views
Because I find theology interesting LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 10:04:23 PM 850 Views
You'd make such a good Episcopalian. *NM* Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 12:17:56 AM 399 Views
Coincidently, Ghav... LadyLorraine - 02/09/2010 12:22:10 AM 851 Views
Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 01:03:13 AM 888 Views
Re: I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Zalis - 01/09/2010 03:09:46 PM 1067 Views
Re: I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Ghavrel - 01/09/2010 11:59:47 PM 1112 Views
Re: I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Zalis - 02/09/2010 01:03:42 AM 940 Views
It isn't henosis. It's a union with God. That's the whole point of the Eucharist, anyway. Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 01:13:39 AM 880 Views
"mock"...really??? damookster - 02/09/2010 07:22:34 PM 978 Views
Moralistic, therapeutic Deism sounds like the perfect religion to me... *NM* Legolas - 01/09/2010 04:35:51 PM 466 Views
I think that its a great word to use... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 03:46:59 PM 993 Views
Bummer Jesus couldn't figure that one out. Dannymac - 01/09/2010 03:48:03 AM 843 Views
"That ye love one another; as I have loved you" is actually somewhat terrifying. Ghavrel - 01/09/2010 07:25:19 AM 881 Views
well OBVIOUSLY LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 12:29:20 PM 940 Views
Jesus talked about Hell more than anyone else in the Bible, AFAIK. Zalis - 01/09/2010 02:39:59 PM 951 Views
You might want to research that some SilverWarder - 01/09/2010 02:56:58 PM 854 Views
Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43, for instance. Zalis - 01/09/2010 03:38:00 PM 991 Views
Nice try, but you will notice that the term "Hell" is entirely absent in the King James version SilverWarder - 01/09/2010 06:25:12 PM 971 Views
the weeds will be gathered and burned does seem a little suggestive *NM* random thoughts - 01/09/2010 06:55:44 PM 472 Views
yes of burning. LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 07:38:07 PM 1004 Views
burning and gnashing teeth *NM* random thoughts - 01/09/2010 07:50:53 PM 492 Views
well wouldn't you gnash your teeth if you were on fire? LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 07:51:36 PM 1028 Views
Jesus needs to work on his analogies LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 07:39:12 PM 960 Views
there is a hell random thoughts - 01/09/2010 09:12:34 PM 1009 Views
lollers *NM* LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:17:16 PM 484 Views
to each their own... damookster - 01/09/2010 11:02:41 PM 903 Views
+1 *NM* random thoughts - 02/09/2010 03:43:10 AM 454 Views
Something of a false dilemma, that. Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 04:10:25 AM 851 Views
or perhaps... damookster - 02/09/2010 04:18:57 AM 986 Views
*NM* Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 04:31:33 AM 463 Views
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