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Re: I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Zalis Send a noteboard - 01/09/2010 03:09:46 PM
The death and resurrection of Christ allow Christians to put a targeting system on our bows. I don't view sin as a commodity that's bought and sold; that's an interpretation of the Western churches that, to my knowledge, is not held by the Orthodox. Theoria is so much more hopeful and worthy than the repugnant "total depravity" of Calvinism.


So Jesus died so that we could "do better?" I think it has more to do with the post-salvation indwelling of the Holy Spirit than it does with anything inherently human. We were created in the image of God, but I think it has a lot more to do with volition and our capacity for relational intimacy (read: not sexual intimacy).

We miss the mark. Christ doesn't magically wave away all we've done; He lets us try again. Christians hold that we're made in the image of God. It's a pity they view that image with such contempt.


Because of the emphasis those adherents place on <our> works after the fact. It's all through God's power, not our own. The Holy Spirit can bring about great change in our hearts and lives, but we're still not to depend on our own perceived merits.

Universal salvation has been posited since Origen, by the way, so you might want to read up on that before casually dismissing it as a new, meaningless thing. Personally, I worship God out o thanksgiving and not fear, and I find the relationship to be liberating, rewarding, and holy. But I'm a young Episcopalian.


Solomon was wise to say there's nothing new under the sun, so I'm not about to say that age is immune from error. (he also thought Demons would be reconciled with God) I don't profess that anyone is following a 100% correct interpretation in every aspect, but there are reasons why I am not a Greek Orthodox or Episcopalian. (or a Catholic, etc)

In the end, so long as we worship the same Christ and agree that salvation comes only through His death & resurrection on the cross, we're on the same team. Or in the same city. A different team or country would be a camp that says humanity is inherently good, that Jesus was just a nice prophet who taught us to be excellent to each other. That life is about our good deeds outweighing bad on some celestial scale, to be accounted for in the after. Stuff like that.

So, saying that, I apologize for any sense of antagonism that may have been reflected in the earlier post. This forum is typically a pretty hostile place in regard to Biblical truth, and the "Word, brutha" thread had mock replies on my mind.
The sword might be grateful to the forge fire, but never fond of it.
This message last edited by Zalis on 01/09/2010 at 03:24:27 PM
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Preaching the Word: You're doing it wrong. Dannymac - 31/08/2010 08:22:14 AM 1408 Views
Danny if you were my preacher... LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 12:42:59 PM 894 Views
Lots of good stuff Bramhodoulos - 31/08/2010 12:43:57 PM 869 Views
True enough. Dannymac - 31/08/2010 04:29:23 PM 975 Views
Maybe it's just where you're coming from... Bramhodoulos - 31/08/2010 06:34:09 PM 816 Views
I like it SilverWarder - 31/08/2010 02:48:31 PM 668 Views
I really <3 you. @my - 31/08/2010 03:09:39 PM 843 Views
How much of that is your words? random thoughts - 31/08/2010 03:16:51 PM 952 Views
he is a preacher LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 03:19:44 PM 930 Views
Most of it. Dannymac - 31/08/2010 04:26:24 PM 790 Views
Well done. *NM* Missa Sedai - 31/08/2010 04:46:54 PM 517 Views
I find myself disgusted that... globug0822 - 31/08/2010 05:12:06 PM 893 Views
he's a peachy preacher? LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 05:27:08 PM 872 Views
LOL globug0822 - 31/08/2010 08:31:45 PM 809 Views
Is my church the exception? Jeordam - 31/08/2010 05:33:36 PM 870 Views
Believe it or not... Dannymac - 31/08/2010 06:58:56 PM 828 Views
I'm not so full of myself.... Jeordam - 31/08/2010 07:14:29 PM 942 Views
I wouldn't blame you much if you did... Dannymac - 31/08/2010 07:18:19 PM 745 Views
A little fire & brimstone for thy stomach's sake? Jeordam - 31/08/2010 07:29:20 PM 778 Views
passionate preachers make me uneasy. LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 08:38:05 PM 673 Views
Passion doesn't need to be... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 03:50:22 PM 937 Views
Why do you take what he says so personally? Francie - 01/09/2010 08:51:06 PM 918 Views
I'm not taking anything personally.... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:20:55 PM 1283 Views
good question,why would they? LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:32:25 PM 861 Views
Your assumption... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:44:28 PM 1010 Views
Look him in the eye? LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:59:02 PM 786 Views
Ok... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 10:34:56 PM 893 Views
so you would not say a murderer would go to heaven? LadyLorraine - 02/09/2010 12:21:10 AM 856 Views
Forgiveness and repentance are humanity's most noble qualities. Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 12:48:02 AM 781 Views
Isn't love your big thing? Jeordam - 02/09/2010 07:17:30 PM 979 Views
yah I know. I just always feel like they're trying to sell me something. *NM* LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:09:13 PM 441 Views
Wouldn't this be.... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:22:27 PM 827 Views
nah, i generally feel that way about that particular behavior. it's not exclusive to preachers *NM* LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:29:23 PM 491 Views
Re: I wouldn't blame you much if you did... Camilla - 01/09/2010 12:40:20 PM 937 Views
*throws panties at you* globug0822 - 31/08/2010 08:35:13 PM 780 Views
There are churches where people throw panties at each other? random thoughts - 31/08/2010 09:42:17 PM 825 Views
I think you would also have to move to where she lives. I don't know any ones that do that here... *NM* Tashmere - 31/08/2010 09:47:21 PM 489 Views
I could just visit random thoughts - 31/08/2010 09:55:50 PM 842 Views
but it'd be fun to WATCH LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 10:02:58 PM 789 Views
if the panties are the size of revival tents it wouldn't be all that fun *NM* random thoughts - 31/08/2010 10:20:32 PM 419 Views
Why sure it would SilverWarder - 01/09/2010 06:57:05 AM 926 Views
The Church of Tom Jones. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 31/08/2010 10:22:59 PM 451 Views
(as if this was the first time) I remember that night at kit & wooly's place..... *NM* Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:51:17 PM 470 Views
I can't speak for everyone LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 08:40:12 PM 963 Views
Testify Sistah Gaylen! Francie - 01/09/2010 02:47:50 PM 1005 Views
Contemplate this then.... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 03:40:55 PM 815 Views
Re: Believe it or not... TaskmasterJack - 31/08/2010 10:22:20 PM 886 Views
I never thought I could feel so free ee eeee *NM* Francie - 01/09/2010 02:48:18 PM 476 Views
As always, Danu - 31/08/2010 06:04:19 PM 921 Views
If people don't see their need for Jesus as savior, we're doing it wrong. Zalis - 31/08/2010 08:44:36 PM 963 Views
Well, at least you didn't include the vague "personal." Ghavrel - 31/08/2010 08:59:55 PM 804 Views
....what? LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 09:02:05 PM 805 Views
'Far as I can tell, it was a mock reply. *NM* Zalis - 31/08/2010 09:04:16 PM 423 Views
...ah...blagh. *NM* LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 09:07:00 PM 482 Views
It wasn't. *NM* Ghavrel - 31/08/2010 09:56:35 PM 462 Views
The word used for "sin" in the New Testament is ἁμαρτία, which means "to miss the mark." Ghavrel - 31/08/2010 10:02:04 PM 721 Views
ahhh I see. That's interesting! *NM* LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 10:03:35 PM 468 Views
Re: The word used for "sin" in the New Testament is ἁμαρτία, which means "to miss the mark." Zalis - 31/08/2010 10:29:16 PM 959 Views
I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Ghavrel - 01/09/2010 02:49:24 AM 806 Views
*picks up the thrown glove* Dannymac - 01/09/2010 03:44:53 AM 969 Views
You didn't say anything I disagree with. Ghavrel - 01/09/2010 05:02:59 AM 822 Views
One of your statements suma great deal of Christianity, actually LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 12:39:52 PM 838 Views
So then in your estimation.... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 03:52:12 PM 1009 Views
From what I do know... LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 07:33:14 PM 952 Views
How about some homework first? Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:32:32 PM 1033 Views
You do understand LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:35:25 PM 826 Views
You'd be suprised... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:50:12 PM 754 Views
Because I find theology interesting LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 10:04:23 PM 788 Views
You'd make such a good Episcopalian. *NM* Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 12:17:56 AM 378 Views
Coincidently, Ghav... LadyLorraine - 02/09/2010 12:22:10 AM 805 Views
Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 01:03:13 AM 837 Views
Re: I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Zalis - 01/09/2010 03:09:46 PM 1004 Views
Re: I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Ghavrel - 01/09/2010 11:59:47 PM 1046 Views
Re: I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Zalis - 02/09/2010 01:03:42 AM 888 Views
It isn't henosis. It's a union with God. That's the whole point of the Eucharist, anyway. Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 01:13:39 AM 835 Views
"mock"...really??? damookster - 02/09/2010 07:22:34 PM 929 Views
Moralistic, therapeutic Deism sounds like the perfect religion to me... *NM* Legolas - 01/09/2010 04:35:51 PM 445 Views
I think that its a great word to use... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 03:46:59 PM 947 Views
Bummer Jesus couldn't figure that one out. Dannymac - 01/09/2010 03:48:03 AM 789 Views
"That ye love one another; as I have loved you" is actually somewhat terrifying. Ghavrel - 01/09/2010 07:25:19 AM 830 Views
well OBVIOUSLY LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 12:29:20 PM 890 Views
Jesus talked about Hell more than anyone else in the Bible, AFAIK. Zalis - 01/09/2010 02:39:59 PM 889 Views
You might want to research that some SilverWarder - 01/09/2010 02:56:58 PM 792 Views
Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43, for instance. Zalis - 01/09/2010 03:38:00 PM 941 Views
Nice try, but you will notice that the term "Hell" is entirely absent in the King James version SilverWarder - 01/09/2010 06:25:12 PM 922 Views
the weeds will be gathered and burned does seem a little suggestive *NM* random thoughts - 01/09/2010 06:55:44 PM 452 Views
yes of burning. LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 07:38:07 PM 941 Views
burning and gnashing teeth *NM* random thoughts - 01/09/2010 07:50:53 PM 472 Views
well wouldn't you gnash your teeth if you were on fire? LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 07:51:36 PM 983 Views
Jesus needs to work on his analogies LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 07:39:12 PM 914 Views
there is a hell random thoughts - 01/09/2010 09:12:34 PM 940 Views
lollers *NM* LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:17:16 PM 462 Views
to each their own... damookster - 01/09/2010 11:02:41 PM 855 Views
+1 *NM* random thoughts - 02/09/2010 03:43:10 AM 431 Views
Something of a false dilemma, that. Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 04:10:25 AM 800 Views
or perhaps... damookster - 02/09/2010 04:18:57 AM 940 Views
*NM* Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 04:31:33 AM 444 Views
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