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Re: I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Zalis Send a noteboard - 01/09/2010 03:09:46 PM
The death and resurrection of Christ allow Christians to put a targeting system on our bows. I don't view sin as a commodity that's bought and sold; that's an interpretation of the Western churches that, to my knowledge, is not held by the Orthodox. Theoria is so much more hopeful and worthy than the repugnant "total depravity" of Calvinism.


So Jesus died so that we could "do better?" I think it has more to do with the post-salvation indwelling of the Holy Spirit than it does with anything inherently human. We were created in the image of God, but I think it has a lot more to do with volition and our capacity for relational intimacy (read: not sexual intimacy).

We miss the mark. Christ doesn't magically wave away all we've done; He lets us try again. Christians hold that we're made in the image of God. It's a pity they view that image with such contempt.


Because of the emphasis those adherents place on <our> works after the fact. It's all through God's power, not our own. The Holy Spirit can bring about great change in our hearts and lives, but we're still not to depend on our own perceived merits.

Universal salvation has been posited since Origen, by the way, so you might want to read up on that before casually dismissing it as a new, meaningless thing. Personally, I worship God out o thanksgiving and not fear, and I find the relationship to be liberating, rewarding, and holy. But I'm a young Episcopalian.


Solomon was wise to say there's nothing new under the sun, so I'm not about to say that age is immune from error. (he also thought Demons would be reconciled with God) I don't profess that anyone is following a 100% correct interpretation in every aspect, but there are reasons why I am not a Greek Orthodox or Episcopalian. (or a Catholic, etc)

In the end, so long as we worship the same Christ and agree that salvation comes only through His death & resurrection on the cross, we're on the same team. Or in the same city. A different team or country would be a camp that says humanity is inherently good, that Jesus was just a nice prophet who taught us to be excellent to each other. That life is about our good deeds outweighing bad on some celestial scale, to be accounted for in the after. Stuff like that.

So, saying that, I apologize for any sense of antagonism that may have been reflected in the earlier post. This forum is typically a pretty hostile place in regard to Biblical truth, and the "Word, brutha" thread had mock replies on my mind.
The sword might be grateful to the forge fire, but never fond of it.
This message last edited by Zalis on 01/09/2010 at 03:24:27 PM
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Preaching the Word: You're doing it wrong. Dannymac - 31/08/2010 08:22:14 AM 1407 Views
Danny if you were my preacher... LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 12:42:59 PM 891 Views
Lots of good stuff Bramhodoulos - 31/08/2010 12:43:57 PM 866 Views
True enough. Dannymac - 31/08/2010 04:29:23 PM 974 Views
Maybe it's just where you're coming from... Bramhodoulos - 31/08/2010 06:34:09 PM 813 Views
I like it SilverWarder - 31/08/2010 02:48:31 PM 665 Views
I really <3 you. @my - 31/08/2010 03:09:39 PM 840 Views
How much of that is your words? random thoughts - 31/08/2010 03:16:51 PM 949 Views
he is a preacher LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 03:19:44 PM 928 Views
Most of it. Dannymac - 31/08/2010 04:26:24 PM 787 Views
Well done. *NM* Missa Sedai - 31/08/2010 04:46:54 PM 516 Views
I find myself disgusted that... globug0822 - 31/08/2010 05:12:06 PM 891 Views
he's a peachy preacher? LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 05:27:08 PM 871 Views
LOL globug0822 - 31/08/2010 08:31:45 PM 807 Views
Is my church the exception? Jeordam - 31/08/2010 05:33:36 PM 869 Views
Believe it or not... Dannymac - 31/08/2010 06:58:56 PM 825 Views
I'm not so full of myself.... Jeordam - 31/08/2010 07:14:29 PM 940 Views
I wouldn't blame you much if you did... Dannymac - 31/08/2010 07:18:19 PM 741 Views
A little fire & brimstone for thy stomach's sake? Jeordam - 31/08/2010 07:29:20 PM 775 Views
passionate preachers make me uneasy. LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 08:38:05 PM 671 Views
Passion doesn't need to be... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 03:50:22 PM 936 Views
Why do you take what he says so personally? Francie - 01/09/2010 08:51:06 PM 916 Views
I'm not taking anything personally.... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:20:55 PM 1280 Views
good question,why would they? LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:32:25 PM 859 Views
Your assumption... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:44:28 PM 1008 Views
Look him in the eye? LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:59:02 PM 783 Views
Ok... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 10:34:56 PM 890 Views
so you would not say a murderer would go to heaven? LadyLorraine - 02/09/2010 12:21:10 AM 853 Views
Forgiveness and repentance are humanity's most noble qualities. Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 12:48:02 AM 780 Views
Isn't love your big thing? Jeordam - 02/09/2010 07:17:30 PM 976 Views
yah I know. I just always feel like they're trying to sell me something. *NM* LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:09:13 PM 440 Views
Wouldn't this be.... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:22:27 PM 824 Views
nah, i generally feel that way about that particular behavior. it's not exclusive to preachers *NM* LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:29:23 PM 490 Views
Re: I wouldn't blame you much if you did... Camilla - 01/09/2010 12:40:20 PM 935 Views
*throws panties at you* globug0822 - 31/08/2010 08:35:13 PM 779 Views
There are churches where people throw panties at each other? random thoughts - 31/08/2010 09:42:17 PM 822 Views
I think you would also have to move to where she lives. I don't know any ones that do that here... *NM* Tashmere - 31/08/2010 09:47:21 PM 488 Views
I could just visit random thoughts - 31/08/2010 09:55:50 PM 841 Views
but it'd be fun to WATCH LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 10:02:58 PM 787 Views
if the panties are the size of revival tents it wouldn't be all that fun *NM* random thoughts - 31/08/2010 10:20:32 PM 418 Views
Why sure it would SilverWarder - 01/09/2010 06:57:05 AM 923 Views
The Church of Tom Jones. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 31/08/2010 10:22:59 PM 450 Views
(as if this was the first time) I remember that night at kit & wooly's place..... *NM* Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:51:17 PM 469 Views
I can't speak for everyone LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 08:40:12 PM 961 Views
Testify Sistah Gaylen! Francie - 01/09/2010 02:47:50 PM 1004 Views
Contemplate this then.... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 03:40:55 PM 812 Views
Re: Believe it or not... TaskmasterJack - 31/08/2010 10:22:20 PM 883 Views
I never thought I could feel so free ee eeee *NM* Francie - 01/09/2010 02:48:18 PM 475 Views
As always, Danu - 31/08/2010 06:04:19 PM 918 Views
If people don't see their need for Jesus as savior, we're doing it wrong. Zalis - 31/08/2010 08:44:36 PM 962 Views
Well, at least you didn't include the vague "personal." Ghavrel - 31/08/2010 08:59:55 PM 803 Views
....what? LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 09:02:05 PM 803 Views
'Far as I can tell, it was a mock reply. *NM* Zalis - 31/08/2010 09:04:16 PM 422 Views
...ah...blagh. *NM* LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 09:07:00 PM 481 Views
It wasn't. *NM* Ghavrel - 31/08/2010 09:56:35 PM 461 Views
The word used for "sin" in the New Testament is ἁμαρτία, which means "to miss the mark." Ghavrel - 31/08/2010 10:02:04 PM 718 Views
ahhh I see. That's interesting! *NM* LadyLorraine - 31/08/2010 10:03:35 PM 468 Views
Re: The word used for "sin" in the New Testament is ἁμαρτία, which means "to miss the mark." Zalis - 31/08/2010 10:29:16 PM 957 Views
I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Ghavrel - 01/09/2010 02:49:24 AM 805 Views
*picks up the thrown glove* Dannymac - 01/09/2010 03:44:53 AM 966 Views
You didn't say anything I disagree with. Ghavrel - 01/09/2010 05:02:59 AM 819 Views
One of your statements suma great deal of Christianity, actually LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 12:39:52 PM 837 Views
So then in your estimation.... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 03:52:12 PM 1008 Views
From what I do know... LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 07:33:14 PM 949 Views
How about some homework first? Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:32:32 PM 1030 Views
You do understand LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:35:25 PM 823 Views
You'd be suprised... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 09:50:12 PM 751 Views
Because I find theology interesting LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 10:04:23 PM 784 Views
You'd make such a good Episcopalian. *NM* Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 12:17:56 AM 377 Views
Coincidently, Ghav... LadyLorraine - 02/09/2010 12:22:10 AM 802 Views
Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 01:03:13 AM 835 Views
Re: I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Zalis - 01/09/2010 03:09:46 PM 1002 Views
Re: I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Ghavrel - 01/09/2010 11:59:47 PM 1044 Views
Re: I love the smell of Calvinism in the morning. It smells like... self-loathing. Zalis - 02/09/2010 01:03:42 AM 887 Views
It isn't henosis. It's a union with God. That's the whole point of the Eucharist, anyway. Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 01:13:39 AM 832 Views
"mock"...really??? damookster - 02/09/2010 07:22:34 PM 926 Views
Moralistic, therapeutic Deism sounds like the perfect religion to me... *NM* Legolas - 01/09/2010 04:35:51 PM 444 Views
I think that its a great word to use... Jeordam - 01/09/2010 03:46:59 PM 945 Views
Bummer Jesus couldn't figure that one out. Dannymac - 01/09/2010 03:48:03 AM 786 Views
"That ye love one another; as I have loved you" is actually somewhat terrifying. Ghavrel - 01/09/2010 07:25:19 AM 829 Views
well OBVIOUSLY LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 12:29:20 PM 889 Views
Jesus talked about Hell more than anyone else in the Bible, AFAIK. Zalis - 01/09/2010 02:39:59 PM 888 Views
You might want to research that some SilverWarder - 01/09/2010 02:56:58 PM 789 Views
Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43, for instance. Zalis - 01/09/2010 03:38:00 PM 938 Views
Nice try, but you will notice that the term "Hell" is entirely absent in the King James version SilverWarder - 01/09/2010 06:25:12 PM 921 Views
the weeds will be gathered and burned does seem a little suggestive *NM* random thoughts - 01/09/2010 06:55:44 PM 451 Views
yes of burning. LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 07:38:07 PM 939 Views
burning and gnashing teeth *NM* random thoughts - 01/09/2010 07:50:53 PM 471 Views
well wouldn't you gnash your teeth if you were on fire? LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 07:51:36 PM 980 Views
Jesus needs to work on his analogies LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 07:39:12 PM 911 Views
there is a hell random thoughts - 01/09/2010 09:12:34 PM 938 Views
lollers *NM* LadyLorraine - 01/09/2010 09:17:16 PM 461 Views
to each their own... damookster - 01/09/2010 11:02:41 PM 852 Views
+1 *NM* random thoughts - 02/09/2010 03:43:10 AM 430 Views
Something of a false dilemma, that. Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 04:10:25 AM 797 Views
or perhaps... damookster - 02/09/2010 04:18:57 AM 937 Views
*NM* Ghavrel - 02/09/2010 04:31:33 AM 443 Views
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