Well, she seems to do well in front of cameras, but in front of law students?
Perhaps just when all she has to do is smile and repeat the lines she was taught earlier? She was caught out by why should be fairly basic knowledge even if the crowd aren't law students.
It would not be as noticeable if she were talking only to tea party activists, methinks. We would still be mocking her, but she would not have had the painful moment of misjudging her audience, which is the part that has me blushing on her behalf here.
Yes, separation of church and state is a settled matter; no, it is NOT in the Constitution. I assume by this point you've read the text at least once or twice and saw the non-establishment clause, and that's great; it means we can't have a state religion, and we can't tell people how to practice religion. It does not mean we can't have religion in government, per se; it means a religious basis is not, in itself, a legitimate legislative one. That's not to say laws against murder and rape are unacceptable because they also happen to appear in most religious texts, or even because the primary motivation of the men who passed that legislation was a moral and in most cases deeply religious one. The laws are good and valid in themselves, precisely due to their operation in a larger than religious sphere. How well they serve that role is the real test of the law, and the Constitutional test here is that it do so without promoting or favoring one or more religions over one or more others.
Part of the religious objection today is the impression the First Amendment is being used in various ways to actively marginalize religious thought, and when that includes the government it is itself a serious First Amendment violation. There's a feeling, to put it in British terms, that we'll soon have an "Anti-Test Act" whereby politicians will have to renounce all religious opinion or be declared unfit for office. "Jacobin" has always had a pejorative connotation in America, even with men like Jefferson and Madison; the closest thing we had to a Robespierre sympathizer like Fox was Thomas Paine, whom the French almost executed for his trouble (and supposedly had a deathbed conversion.)
Essentially, they're making fun of her for bringing up a valid argument they long ago won, but they're disingenuously pretending the point itself is invalid and ignorant when they know very well that it's not.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
"Where in the Constitution is separation of church and state?"
- 20/10/2010 12:33:05 AM
989 Views
You don't want her?
- 20/10/2010 01:21:20 AM
546 Views
I have decided for the first time in my life to not vote this year.
- 20/10/2010 01:27:13 AM
415 Views
Now there's an answer
- 20/10/2010 01:47:28 AM
511 Views
And most of those posts are a guess at best.
- 20/10/2010 03:02:04 AM
391 Views
Local bonds/ballot initiatives? Want the only major road within 10 miles of your house tolled?
- 21/10/2010 01:50:41 PM
427 Views
Can you not spoil your ballot?
- 20/10/2010 10:19:54 AM
371 Views
I don't think so but an intentional no vote is just as valid as voting IMHO. *NM*
- 21/10/2010 02:45:35 AM
174 Views
When you don't vote the bad guys win. That simple.
- 20/10/2010 01:53:23 PM
512 Views
The bad guys? That implies that there are some "good" guys somewhere in politics.
- 20/10/2010 05:43:06 PM
364 Views
I didn't say that, just that the bad guys automatically win if you don't vote.
- 20/10/2010 05:49:43 PM
362 Views
Re: I have decided for the first time in my life to not vote this year.
- 20/10/2010 02:54:04 PM
498 Views
She is a buffoon of course. But what I am speechless about is...
- 20/10/2010 01:25:43 AM
485 Views
Re: She is a buffoon of course. But what I am speechless about is...
- 20/10/2010 01:35:48 AM
413 Views
i feel kinda bad for her
- 20/10/2010 03:31:03 AM
461 Views
What is odd about this is that everyone is used to the 'separation' idea that they don't bother to
- 20/10/2010 06:44:48 AM
412 Views
Or, you know, the letters on the topic written by the people who drafted the Constitution *NM*
- 20/10/2010 07:04:47 AM
222 Views
She's right.
- 20/10/2010 12:27:55 PM
509 Views
I'm less concerned about what she said than why she said it. *NM*
- 20/10/2010 01:32:38 PM
271 Views
It is on youtube
- 20/10/2010 02:40:12 PM
425 Views
Jesus Christ
- 20/10/2010 03:03:30 PM
435 Views
Re: Jesus Christ
- 20/10/2010 03:32:02 PM
389 Views
Re: Jesus Christ
- 20/10/2010 03:36:48 PM
357 Views
Re: Jesus Christ
- 20/10/2010 03:53:46 PM
363 Views
Re: Jesus Christ
- 20/10/2010 04:01:49 PM
446 Views
Because she knew her audience, she expected them to know better, not be deliberately obtuse.
- 21/10/2010 02:31:19 PM
405 Views
Re: Because she knew her audience, she expected them to know better, not be deliberately obtuse.
- 21/10/2010 02:40:23 PM
461 Views
If the subsequent rulings aren't Constitutional they don't matter.
- 21/10/2010 03:03:11 PM
399 Views
Re: If the subsequent rulings aren't Constitutional they don't matter.
- 21/10/2010 03:57:45 PM
452 Views
She focused on the First Amendments text, and ignored the rest as commentary.
- 21/10/2010 04:49:22 PM
471 Views
Ok.
- 21/10/2010 05:01:22 PM
362 Views
I certainly don't think she deserves the scorn being heaped on her this time.
- 21/10/2010 05:14:03 PM
399 Views
See Dreaded Anomaly's reply below.
- 21/10/2010 03:03:02 PM
427 Views
Done.
- 21/10/2010 04:50:52 PM
363 Views
The last statement is the only relevant one, and still a bit ambiguous.
- 20/10/2010 03:51:35 PM
393 Views
I think it is clear that that argument is beyond her capabilities. It was not what she was saying. *NM*
- 21/10/2010 02:50:33 AM
161 Views
Separation of church and state is not in the Constitution, so she's right.
- 21/10/2010 03:41:27 PM
334 Views
I see we have replaced the PDS with ODS
- 20/10/2010 03:05:58 PM
361 Views
It only depends on just how finely one wants to split hairs.
- 20/10/2010 04:02:28 PM
369 Views
no it depends how far you want to stretch the Constitution to say things it doesn't say
- 20/10/2010 04:19:04 PM
365 Views
Treaty of Tripoli through the Establishment clause fairly explicitly affirms this. Sorry. *NM*
- 21/10/2010 03:56:09 AM
161 Views
OK which clause allows for amending the Constitution by treaty? I can't seem to find it *NM*
- 21/10/2010 02:59:01 PM
149 Views
Supremacy clause, not establishment clause. My mistake.
- 21/10/2010 05:07:18 PM
367 Views
Sorry, but the Treaty of Tripolis relevant section still seems like commentary.
- 21/10/2010 05:18:00 PM
354 Views
This is quickly becoming infuriating.
- 22/10/2010 01:41:18 AM
337 Views
No, it's part of the treaty.
- 22/10/2010 02:02:42 AM
381 Views
Take it up with the Supremacy Clause.
*NM*
- 22/10/2010 02:12:11 AM
162 Views
*NM*
- 22/10/2010 02:12:11 AM
162 Views
So from 1797 we've been at "perpetual peace" with Libya?
- 22/10/2010 02:25:44 AM
336 Views
Fair enough as regards the treaty being broken.
- 22/10/2010 02:38:37 AM
361 Views
Seems to apply to the Tenth Amendment only, not the Constitution as a whole.
- 22/10/2010 02:56:27 AM
437 Views
When a treaty is ratified by the senate, its provisions become federal law via a few processes.
- 22/10/2010 03:02:24 AM
351 Views
Even if we take that at face value, a law can still be unconstitutional.
- 22/10/2010 03:19:07 AM
380 Views
it was a poor decision anyway since Amendments should be seen to modify the original
- 22/10/2010 02:11:22 PM
341 Views
no your mistake was misreading the clause
- 21/10/2010 05:48:52 PM
353 Views
Very difficult not to lose my temper here.
- 22/10/2010 01:39:21 AM
340 Views
Then you should argue it violate a treaty with a country that no longer exist
- 22/10/2010 02:03:32 PM
347 Views
She's so... bewildered!
- 20/10/2010 06:40:04 PM
363 Views
that is what I think when I read a lot of the responses here
- 20/10/2010 07:44:40 PM
343 Views
She was still confused when he clarified what he meant, is what's funny *NM*
- 20/10/2010 08:56:56 PM
151 Views
Because the logical conclusion is obvious.
- 21/10/2010 03:08:39 AM
352 Views
I think it is logical that it means what is say not want some want it to say
- 21/10/2010 03:02:08 PM
350 Views
Nonsense. The nature of the nation was already changing in the first generation.
- 22/10/2010 12:35:26 AM
455 Views
I think it funny that so many people can't see that what she was actually saying was true
- 20/10/2010 09:23:23 PM
361 Views
I think it is funny that you think that she could argue that angle when she clearly can't. *NM*
- 21/10/2010 03:10:43 AM
145 Views
For those who think O'Donnell is correct, even on a technicality:
- 20/10/2010 10:49:40 PM
410 Views
She reiterates her question about "separation of church and state" and he repeatedly dodges.
- 21/10/2010 03:19:56 PM
365 Views
or she wasn't really paying attnetion to him and was still trying to argue her first point
- 21/10/2010 03:24:06 PM
512 Views
Heh...reminds me of Obama claiming to have visited all fifty seven states.
- 22/10/2010 12:44:58 AM
479 Views
My favorite bit is how people are attacking the judicary because they disagree with rulings.
- 21/10/2010 05:12:01 PM
364 Views
so you believe we all should just accept what the courts say without question?
- 21/10/2010 05:54:42 PM
376 Views
Given that it's you, Joel and Christine O'Donnell versus two centuries of jurisprudence? YES. *NM*
- 22/10/2010 01:49:01 AM
163 Views
Y'know, an alliance as unlikely as that one ought to give you cause for a second look.
- 22/10/2010 03:03:05 AM
446 Views
yes we are the only ones who don't think the courts can rewrtie the Constitution at will *NM*
- 22/10/2010 02:04:44 PM
153 Views
yes we are the only ones who don't think the courts can rewrtie the Constitution at will *NM*
- 22/10/2010 02:04:44 PM
143 Views
Come, my brethren! All Hallows Eve approachs, and we have much to do!
- 22/10/2010 05:34:01 PM
347 Views
