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Fair enough as regards the treaty being broken. Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 22/10/2010 02:38:37 AM
The only US law to which it extends is the treaty itself


NO. READ MISSOURI V. HOLLAND
"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

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"Where in the Constitution is separation of church and state?" damookster - 20/10/2010 12:33:05 AM 878 Views
You don't want her? nossy - 20/10/2010 01:21:20 AM 439 Views
I have decided for the first time in my life to not vote this year. everynametaken - 20/10/2010 01:27:13 AM 316 Views
Now there's an answer Isaac - 20/10/2010 01:47:28 AM 412 Views
Voting isn't the only way to contribute *NM* Roland00 - 20/10/2010 02:42:10 AM 133 Views
And most of those posts are a guess at best. everynametaken - 20/10/2010 03:02:04 AM 289 Views
Maybe you shouldn't be guessing then? Isaac - 20/10/2010 06:00:02 AM 279 Views
Local bonds/ballot initiatives? Want the only major road within 10 miles of your house tolled? Joel - 21/10/2010 01:50:41 PM 303 Views
Issac has a point. Tashmere - 20/10/2010 02:14:28 AM 293 Views
Can you not spoil your ballot? Mark - 20/10/2010 10:19:54 AM 274 Views
Depends where you live. Joel - 20/10/2010 01:50:30 PM 330 Views
I don't think so but an intentional no vote is just as valid as voting IMHO. *NM* everynametaken - 21/10/2010 02:45:35 AM 122 Views
The difference is when they look at statistics snoopcester - 21/10/2010 10:49:48 AM 274 Views
Exactly. Joel - 21/10/2010 02:02:46 PM 389 Views
When you don't vote the bad guys win. That simple. Joel - 20/10/2010 01:53:23 PM 401 Views
The bad guys? That implies that there are some "good" guys somewhere in politics. Avendesora - 20/10/2010 05:43:06 PM 264 Views
I didn't say that, just that the bad guys automatically win if you don't vote. Joel - 20/10/2010 05:49:43 PM 255 Views
An intentional NO vote is just as valid as voting. everynametaken - 21/10/2010 02:46:58 AM 266 Views
Apart from the fact there's no record of it whatsoever, yes. Joel - 21/10/2010 01:37:46 PM 275 Views
Re: I have decided for the first time in my life to not vote this year. Camilla - 20/10/2010 02:54:04 PM 390 Views
She is a buffoon of course. But what I am speechless about is... everynametaken - 20/10/2010 01:25:43 AM 390 Views
Re: She is a buffoon of course. But what I am speechless about is... TaskmasterJack - 20/10/2010 01:35:48 AM 316 Views
Re: (meant to be under the main thread, but I can't move it) Gaps - 20/10/2010 02:42:23 AM 287 Views
It's a valid argument. Joel - 21/10/2010 03:26:46 PM 264 Views
i feel kinda bad for her Aisha - 20/10/2010 03:31:03 AM 314 Views
What is odd about this is that everyone is used to the 'separation' idea that they don't bother to MightyYT - 20/10/2010 06:44:48 AM 318 Views
Or, you know, the letters on the topic written by the people who drafted the Constitution *NM* Jragghen - 20/10/2010 07:04:47 AM 163 Views
Those aren't the Constitution though. Joel - 20/10/2010 12:39:41 PM 301 Views
which show they considered it but did not include it *NM* random thoughts - 20/10/2010 06:14:37 PM 125 Views
Yep, this. *NM* Zalis - 20/10/2010 07:40:19 PM 150 Views
Personally, I think that's splitting hairs. *NM* rebelaessedai - 20/10/2010 09:20:28 PM 122 Views
a direct reading is splitting hairs? random thoughts - 20/10/2010 09:25:14 PM 273 Views
That's what lawyers like the Founding Fathers do. Joel - 21/10/2010 02:56:36 PM 280 Views
I actually felt bad for her snoopcester - 20/10/2010 10:46:57 AM 285 Views
She's right. Joel - 20/10/2010 12:27:55 PM 415 Views
I'm less concerned about what she said than why she said it. *NM* Avendesora - 20/10/2010 01:32:38 PM 218 Views
It is on youtube snoopcester - 20/10/2010 02:40:12 PM 311 Views
Jesus Christ Camilla - 20/10/2010 03:03:30 PM 317 Views
Re: Jesus Christ snoopcester - 20/10/2010 03:32:02 PM 283 Views
Re: Jesus Christ Camilla - 20/10/2010 03:36:48 PM 269 Views
Re: Jesus Christ snoopcester - 20/10/2010 03:53:46 PM 261 Views
Re: Jesus Christ Camilla - 20/10/2010 04:01:49 PM 353 Views
Re: Jesus Christ snoopcester - 20/10/2010 05:12:28 PM 260 Views
Because she knew her audience, she expected them to know better, not be deliberately obtuse. Joel - 21/10/2010 02:31:19 PM 293 Views
Re: Because she knew her audience, she expected them to know better, not be deliberately obtuse. nossy - 21/10/2010 02:40:23 PM 364 Views
If the subsequent rulings aren't Constitutional they don't matter. Joel - 21/10/2010 03:03:11 PM 288 Views
Re: If the subsequent rulings aren't Constitutional they don't matter. nossy - 21/10/2010 03:57:45 PM 357 Views
She focused on the First Amendments text, and ignored the rest as commentary. Joel - 21/10/2010 04:49:22 PM 350 Views
Ok. nossy - 21/10/2010 05:01:22 PM 269 Views
I certainly don't think she deserves the scorn being heaped on her this time. Joel - 21/10/2010 05:14:03 PM 306 Views
See Dreaded Anomaly's reply below. Camilla - 21/10/2010 03:03:02 PM 317 Views
Done. Joel - 21/10/2010 04:50:52 PM 266 Views
Yet another reason you aren't a lawyer. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/10/2010 05:09:16 PM 104 Views
Because I don't accept arguments I consider unproven? Joel - 21/10/2010 05:23:52 PM 320 Views
The last statement is the only relevant one, and still a bit ambiguous. Joel - 20/10/2010 03:51:35 PM 285 Views
I think it is clear that that argument is beyond her capabilities. It was not what she was saying. *NM* everynametaken - 21/10/2010 02:50:33 AM 110 Views
Separation of church and state is not in the Constitution, so she's right. Joel - 21/10/2010 03:41:27 PM 232 Views
I see we have replaced the PDS with ODS random thoughts - 20/10/2010 03:05:58 PM 262 Views
It only depends on just how finely one wants to split hairs. Macharius - 20/10/2010 04:02:28 PM 269 Views
no it depends how far you want to stretch the Constitution to say things it doesn't say random thoughts - 20/10/2010 04:19:04 PM 266 Views
No it does not show that. everynametaken - 21/10/2010 02:58:32 AM 252 Views
It doesn't matter what some of them may have wanted random thoughts - 21/10/2010 02:54:54 PM 245 Views
Treaty of Tripoli through the Establishment clause fairly explicitly affirms this. Sorry. *NM* Ghavrel - 21/10/2010 03:56:09 AM 109 Views
OK which clause allows for amending the Constitution by treaty? I can't seem to find it *NM* random thoughts - 21/10/2010 02:59:01 PM 112 Views
Supremacy clause, not establishment clause. My mistake. Ghavrel - 21/10/2010 05:07:18 PM 259 Views
Sorry, but the Treaty of Tripolis relevant section still seems like commentary. Joel - 21/10/2010 05:18:00 PM 239 Views
This is quickly becoming infuriating. Ghavrel - 22/10/2010 01:41:18 AM 239 Views
No, it's part of the treaty. Joel - 22/10/2010 02:02:42 AM 261 Views
Take it up with the Supremacy Clause. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/10/2010 02:12:11 AM 114 Views
So from 1797 we've been at "perpetual peace" with Libya? Joel - 22/10/2010 02:25:44 AM 245 Views
Fair enough as regards the treaty being broken. Ghavrel - 22/10/2010 02:38:37 AM 243 Views
Seems to apply to the Tenth Amendment only, not the Constitution as a whole. Joel - 22/10/2010 02:56:27 AM 302 Views
When a treaty is ratified by the senate, its provisions become federal law via a few processes. Ghavrel - 22/10/2010 03:02:24 AM 245 Views
Even if we take that at face value, a law can still be unconstitutional. Joel - 22/10/2010 03:19:07 AM 283 Views
it was a poor decision anyway since Amendments should be seen to modify the original random thoughts - 22/10/2010 02:11:22 PM 234 Views
Well, they do, but they modify, they don't automatically negate. Joel - 22/10/2010 08:31:47 PM 241 Views
no your mistake was misreading the clause random thoughts - 21/10/2010 05:48:52 PM 249 Views
Very difficult not to lose my temper here. Ghavrel - 22/10/2010 01:39:21 AM 258 Views
Then you should argue it violate a treaty with a country that no longer exist random thoughts - 22/10/2010 02:03:32 PM 241 Views
Noticed that, too, did you? Joel - 22/10/2010 08:40:09 PM 352 Views
She's so... bewildered! beetnemesis - 20/10/2010 06:40:04 PM 249 Views
that is what I think when I read a lot of the responses here random thoughts - 20/10/2010 07:44:40 PM 257 Views
She was still confused when he clarified what he meant, is what's funny *NM* beetnemesis - 20/10/2010 08:56:56 PM 106 Views
Because the logical conclusion is obvious. everynametaken - 21/10/2010 03:08:39 AM 248 Views
I think it is logical that it means what is say not want some want it to say random thoughts - 21/10/2010 03:02:08 PM 248 Views
Nonsense. The nature of the nation was already changing in the first generation. everynametaken - 22/10/2010 12:35:26 AM 344 Views
but it is an impulse that should be limited random thoughts - 22/10/2010 06:05:10 PM 248 Views
I think it funny that so many people can't see that what she was actually saying was true random thoughts - 20/10/2010 09:23:23 PM 250 Views
I think it is funny that you think that she could argue that angle when she clearly can't. *NM* everynametaken - 21/10/2010 03:10:43 AM 98 Views
For those who think O'Donnell is correct, even on a technicality: Dreaded Anomaly - 20/10/2010 10:49:40 PM 292 Views
exactly damookster - 21/10/2010 03:26:00 AM 282 Views
She started out alright nossy - 21/10/2010 02:32:01 PM 250 Views
She reiterates her question about "separation of church and state" and he repeatedly dodges. Joel - 21/10/2010 03:19:56 PM 274 Views
or she wasn't really paying attnetion to him and was still trying to argue her first point random thoughts - 21/10/2010 03:24:06 PM 394 Views
Lol. Bush-League. LadyLorraine - 21/10/2010 04:39:43 PM 246 Views
at leas thten the haters were hating someone who mattered *NM* random thoughts - 21/10/2010 05:50:03 PM 114 Views
Heh...reminds me of Obama claiming to have visited all fifty seven states. MightyYT - 22/10/2010 12:44:58 AM 369 Views
My favorite bit is how people are attacking the judicary because they disagree with rulings. Ghavrel - 21/10/2010 05:12:01 PM 264 Views
so you believe we all should just accept what the courts say without question? random thoughts - 21/10/2010 05:54:42 PM 262 Views
Given that it's you, Joel and Christine O'Donnell versus two centuries of jurisprudence? YES. *NM* Ghavrel - 22/10/2010 01:49:01 AM 114 Views
Y'know, an alliance as unlikely as that one ought to give you cause for a second look. Joel - 22/10/2010 03:03:05 AM 359 Views
*double posts* Joel - 22/10/2010 08:44:07 PM 270 Views
yes we are the only ones who don't think the courts can rewrtie the Constitution at will *NM* random thoughts - 22/10/2010 02:04:44 PM 108 Views
yes we are the only ones who don't think the courts can rewrtie the Constitution at will *NM* random thoughts - 22/10/2010 02:04:44 PM 109 Views
Come, my brethren! All Hallows Eve approachs, and we have much to do! beetnemesis - 22/10/2010 05:34:01 PM 234 Views
...goddammit beetnemesis - 22/10/2010 05:35:37 PM 254 Views
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