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Uh...Last I checked conservatives didn't list the Communist Manifesto as a favourite book. Dragonsoul Send a noteboard - 16/01/2011 03:05:07 PM
Not because I'm a liberal, though I am, and not because Loughner's a conservative (his own friends say he was neither right nor left, and Ayn Rand and Mein Kampf are strange favorites for liberals). It's because of one of the best examples of what Ms. Palin and others call "blood libel":
We're in Sarah Palin's 'targeted' list, but the thing is that the way she has it depicted, we're in the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize that there are consequences to that action.

Care to take a wild "shot" at the speaker?

US Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) ten months before Jared Loughner shot her in the head.

Why, if I were Sarah Palin I'd fly to that hospital and tell her to watch her mouth! Though she's still unable to speak; maybe the "blood libel" has solved itself: YOU'RE safe now, Sarah! :rolleyes: How tragic that nearly being murdered has blinded Rep. Giffords to the REAL victim: Sarah Palin. :vomits:

It was logical for the media to connect Palins imagery with the attack, since Rep. Gifford did, too,a year before it happened. If someone had been running all over Britain yelling, "Blast Parliament!" in the summer of 1605, most people would probably have thought Guy Fawkes had them in mind that November. It was irresponsible not to wait for all the facts before publicizing those suspicions, true; on the other hand, Ms. Palin is in no position to lecture anyone on careless language. I don't believe for a moment she intended or expected this to happen, but she SHOULD'VE expected that in a nation of 300 million there was a good chance some nut would take her literally, and if she didn't I don't want her running the local quickie mart. Yeah, a lot of liberals were too quick to shout, "J'ACCUSE!" but Palin in particular was far too eager to wash her hands of it, and the only reason she didn't do it quicker is probably because she spent the first couple days making calls to see if she'd gotten six people killed and injured thirteen more. She knows it, I know it and the American people ought to know it.

Sorry, I REALLY didn't want to examine the potential political relevance to this horrible tragedy, and I really don't think the connection with Palin is more than eerie coincidence. We don't know; Loughner's saying nothing. However, it very easily COULD'VE been connected, so easily that the first victim EXPECTED something like this based solely on Palins comments and imagery, and calling that "blood libel" is quite literally blaming the victim. Whatever happened to "personal accountability"? Were those just more words we shouldn't take seriously...? :[
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OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. Joel - 16/01/2011 12:18:22 PM 2183 Views
Why are they calling it "blood libel"? Camilla - 16/01/2011 12:23:47 PM 1057 Views
Because if the facts were as they represent them those words would be applicable. Joel - 16/01/2011 12:49:22 PM 1221 Views
It's not entirely clear to me whether you're aware of this or not, but... Legolas - 16/01/2011 01:12:22 PM 1264 Views
That's why I said, "popularized". Joel - 16/01/2011 01:46:52 PM 1237 Views
I think Alan Dershowitz dealt with this nonsense already Isaac - 16/01/2011 02:34:10 PM 1607 Views
Interesting. I didn't realize it was so wide-spread. Legolas - 16/01/2011 03:10:28 PM 1136 Views
She wasn't even the first to use the term that week either Isaac - 16/01/2011 10:10:35 PM 1163 Views
I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. Legolas - 16/01/2011 10:18:54 PM 1156 Views
Re: I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. Isaac - 16/01/2011 11:30:38 PM 1047 Views
Oh please don't you start to random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:34:43 PM 991 Views
I for one hadn't noticed it before. Legolas - 17/01/2011 10:25:57 PM 1186 Views
it was used here and nobody commented random thoughts - 17/01/2011 10:37:07 PM 1065 Views
LOL, I totally forgot that got posted here Isaac - 17/01/2011 10:54:26 PM 1102 Views
It's funny you should say that... Legolas - 18/01/2011 10:32:59 PM 1150 Views
Precisely: I noticed, but it hadn't become a rallying cry for "the real victim" (Palin). Joel - 19/01/2011 12:14:48 AM 1293 Views
I thought you were the real vicitim random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:49:06 PM 1233 Views
When and where did I say that? The ultimate victim is America, but six members of it just died. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:24:27 PM 965 Views
Re: It's funny you should say that... Isaac - 19/01/2011 03:29:52 PM 1139 Views
It was permissible to ignore until it became a rallying cry. Joel - 20/01/2011 04:27:23 PM 1175 Views
A rallying cry is hardly illegal Isaac - 20/01/2011 05:32:45 PM 1233 Views
I never said it was. Joel - 20/01/2011 06:59:39 PM 1322 Views
Oh, I noticed that one alright. Legolas - 18/01/2011 10:25:23 PM 995 Views
but is he accussed of being a tasteless moron who doesn't know what it means? random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:28:03 PM 1035 Views
I don't know, if I have to judge him based on that one article, then tasteless moron, absolutely. Legolas - 19/01/2011 06:14:43 PM 1155 Views
compared to the way similar terms are used? random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:58:02 PM 1141 Views
I meant I hadn't seen it used in different contexts before. Legolas - 19/01/2011 07:35:00 PM 1109 Views
The peole who called her stupid for using the term didn't know it was so wide spread either random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:33:19 PM 1019 Views
Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Joel - 16/01/2011 10:24:09 PM 1197 Views
Re: Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Isaac - 16/01/2011 11:09:21 PM 1247 Views
Again, Giffords specifically made the connection between Palins imagery and an attack on her. Joel - 17/01/2011 12:53:08 AM 1387 Views
That means precisely nothing Isaac - 17/01/2011 03:59:07 PM 1085 Views
It means everything. Joel - 18/01/2011 08:34:55 PM 1326 Views
I'm trying to understand your logic Chas - 19/01/2011 12:50:28 AM 932 Views
There are two points: Joel - 19/01/2011 02:47:48 AM 1150 Views
I don't agree, but I understand. *NM* Chas - 19/01/2011 10:14:13 PM 536 Views
Giffords' statements and Palins are matters of public record; they're indisputable. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:34:53 PM 1129 Views
I must say, if more people on both sides could say that we'd all be better for it. Joel - 20/01/2011 04:32:55 AM 1154 Views
Re: It means everything. Isaac - 19/01/2011 05:55:02 PM 970 Views
That's simply illogical. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:08:51 AM 1361 Views
the old step one steal underwear step three profit argument random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:01:14 PM 1220 Views
Your inability/unwillingness to follow basic and clearly delineated logic is not my failing. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:19:31 AM 1085 Views
I admit I can't follow gnome logic *NM* random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:50:22 AM 531 Views
I demonstrated the connection, whether or not you choose to look the other way. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:16:28 PM 1117 Views
that is some twisted and bizarre logic random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:38:41 PM 1173 Views
Giffords said Palins crosshairs imagery would have "consequences"; Palin calls the suggestion libel. Joel - 18/01/2011 08:54:45 PM 1056 Views
yes but the only consequences is liberals using them to slander Palin random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:58:35 PM 1141 Views
I read Toms reply; I don't think he exactly vindicated your position, nor meant to do so. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:52:37 AM 1459 Views
It was an example of blaming the victim, a phrase you keep misusing random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:28:21 PM 1104 Views
I thought you said only liberals blinded by political bias committed that grave sin. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:47:09 PM 1143 Views
so in other words you again missed the point random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:26:49 PM 1075 Views
Well, one of us did. Joel - 20/01/2011 09:24:35 PM 1206 Views
so lets be clear do you or don't you understand what it means to "blame the vicitm"? random thoughts - 20/01/2011 10:03:48 PM 835 Views
I understand it well; can we be equally clear you say the victim here is Palin? Joel - 20/01/2011 10:44:08 PM 1279 Views
So I am a little confused on something... MightyYT - 16/01/2011 02:38:59 PM 1213 Views
Palin putting Giffords district in the crosshairs and Giffords implying at the time she feared this Joel - 16/01/2011 11:21:36 PM 1353 Views
If I understand what you are saying correctly... MightyYT - 17/01/2011 07:07:56 AM 1086 Views
I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. Joel - 17/01/2011 08:33:47 AM 1110 Views
Re: I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. Isaac - 17/01/2011 04:24:01 PM 1179 Views
The Secret Service does guard Congressmen, just not all of them automatically. Joel - 18/01/2011 09:13:39 PM 981 Views
No, they don't Isaac - 18/01/2011 10:19:34 PM 1179 Views
Really? Cannoli says differently, and I believe he's right on that one. Joel - 18/01/2011 10:50:51 PM 1280 Views
You seem to be reading what you want to from what I said Isaac - 19/01/2011 01:27:32 PM 1114 Views
I read what you said & understood it as you restate here, hence I referenced local police (twice) Joel - 20/01/2011 02:15:17 AM 1174 Views
The problem here is your ignoring normal policing powers to concoct an absurdity Isaac - 20/01/2011 04:20:25 PM 1251 Views
More absurd than the notion such incitement warrants no notice? Joel - 20/01/2011 05:42:47 PM 1232 Views
really because people post that kind of crap daily and nothing happens random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:57:52 PM 1060 Views
I thought waterboarding was OK and any suggestion to the contrary was terrorist sympathizing. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:54:05 PM 993 Views
way to dodge the point again random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:34:33 PM 1033 Views
Do you have an example of a credible threat of injury to a Congressman, or calls for one? Joel - 20/01/2011 10:02:53 PM 1097 Views
Your shifting your original premise, *again* Isaac - 20/01/2011 08:24:18 PM 1078 Views
No, you're simply missing the point of it. Joel - 20/01/2011 11:09:57 PM 1093 Views
There is no point Isaac - 21/01/2011 12:22:30 AM 1130 Views
If I had no point I wouldn't bother, but fair enough. Joel - 21/01/2011 01:20:32 AM 1378 Views
Uh...Last I checked conservatives didn't list the Communist Manifesto as a favourite book. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 03:05:07 PM 1394 Views
You're awesome at missing points, aren't you? Dannymac - 16/01/2011 07:26:30 PM 1142 Views
where is the accountability for those committing slander? random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:52:40 PM 1056 Views
Libs hate Mein Kampf and We the Living; conservatives hate the Communist Manifesto: He's neither. Joel - 16/01/2011 10:06:02 PM 1077 Views
conseartives hate Mein Kampf and liberals stil read the Communist Manifesto random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:57:22 PM 1066 Views
That first line is says it all. Joel - 18/01/2011 09:34:06 PM 1155 Views
Nazis had more in common with communist then capitalist random thoughts - 19/01/2011 04:10:09 PM 1258 Views
The founder of fascism called it "the merger of corporate and national power". Joel - 20/01/2011 02:51:09 AM 1149 Views
and that is supposed to mean something? random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:06:18 PM 1159 Views
YOU are cherry picking. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:50:21 PM 1099 Views
It is to be expected that this site would be libtard central... Shannow - 16/01/2011 05:23:53 PM 1381 Views
See my reply to Dragonsoul above. Dannymac - 16/01/2011 07:30:40 PM 1199 Views
Yeah, your first was better Isaac - 16/01/2011 09:48:58 PM 1018 Views
Again, I don't think Palin intended this, but Giffords feared ten months ago that this could result. Joel - 16/01/2011 11:29:19 PM 1170 Views
And I call bullshit Cannoli - 18/01/2011 03:12:13 PM 1296 Views
If Palin wants to accuse Giffords of libel she should have the guts to do it to her face. Joel - 18/01/2011 10:39:07 PM 1253 Views
So if some jihadist shot Gifford, would you also blame Palin? Shannow - 19/01/2011 02:52:42 PM 1152 Views
don't get ti doesn't matter who is to blame it just matters if they can use it *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2011 04:11:09 PM 534 Views
No, I'd blame the shooter first and the mullahs shouting, "JIHAD111" second, as I always do. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:11:33 AM 1239 Views
Then why are you even here? I pretty much agree with you entirely and I'm fairly liberal. *NM* Elaine - 18/01/2011 01:16:33 PM 618 Views
Palin didn't really have anything to do with this, but it makes sense she's blamed. Tom - 16/01/2011 10:19:51 PM 1096 Views
Pretty much. Joel - 16/01/2011 11:44:35 PM 1159 Views
Did they ever catch the person(s) that vandalized Gifford's office? *NM* Tashmere - 17/01/2011 03:30:36 AM 534 Views
I didn't realize someone had, but it appears a militia leader was responsible (shocking, I know). Joel - 17/01/2011 07:04:08 AM 1105 Views
politcal offices are vandalized on a regular basis *NM* random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:41:29 PM 500 Views
She only asked if they caught the guy, she didn't accuse anyone, Sarah. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:27:18 PM 1052 Views
OK Olberman when did I imply otherwise? *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:48:41 PM 542 Views
"Political offices are vandalized on a regular basis". Joel - 20/01/2011 03:16:39 AM 1244 Views
Took you this long, huh? Macharius - 17/01/2011 01:53:31 PM 988 Views
I didn't want to look because I was afraid the charges against the far right demagogues might stick. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:07:26 PM 1333 Views
I am sick of the desperate attempts of liberals to find a way to use a tragedy random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:31:18 PM 1021 Views
I'm just curious. callandor1000 - 17/01/2011 03:23:47 PM 985 Views
Re: I'm just curious. Camilla - 17/01/2011 03:28:04 PM 1134 Views
I always said I'd do that after Bush was re-elected. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:52:45 PM 1006 Views
like I said a matter of faith random thoughts - 17/01/2011 04:27:51 PM 995 Views
I find it interesting... Jeordam - 17/01/2011 05:31:54 PM 1146 Views
I mention her looks solely because... callandor1000 - 20/01/2011 02:30:42 PM 1036 Views
Had that convo with the cab driver on the way home from a New Years party. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:42:07 PM 1285 Views
If slander, not mine, Giffords' (at least you don't err like Palin and say, "libel" ). Joel - 18/01/2011 11:14:23 PM 1205 Views
mark you calendar today is the day Joel offically went around the bend into insanity random thoughts - 19/01/2011 05:28:06 PM 1053 Views
A mirror will show me who's to blame? On whom have I put a crosshairs? Joel - 20/01/2011 03:23:43 AM 1079 Views
so it is all a matter of faith for you random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:48:44 AM 1014 Views
No, it's fairly straight forward logic. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:25:56 PM 1122 Views
sorry Joel but you haven't random thoughts - 20/01/2011 03:29:49 PM 914 Views
It's there; in this thread alone people from both sides of the aisle have acknowledged that. Joel - 20/01/2011 05:51:21 PM 1014 Views
only in your does the connection exisit random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:39:35 PM 1059 Views
No. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:35:09 PM 1135 Views
dude wake up random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:54:33 PM 1259 Views
Fine, I have no problem dropping the "right" label in my condemnations. Joel - 20/01/2011 10:39:34 PM 1274 Views
So in your opinion... Jeordam - 17/01/2011 05:27:58 PM 1005 Views
How 'bout simply color coding them? Joel - 18/01/2011 11:21:03 PM 1062 Views
Why not just blame Giffords? Cannoli - 17/01/2011 06:07:14 PM 1360 Views
Indeed, why not; Sarah Palin does. Joel - 18/01/2011 06:58:01 PM 1180 Views
The left are the ones storing up hate with their pathetic slaner random thoughts - 18/01/2011 07:53:23 PM 1133 Views
At least 95% of the blame is Loughners; he's a nut, but that doesn't exonerate the demagogues. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:24:11 PM 1205 Views
0% belongs to political rhetoric from the right random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:47:56 PM 999 Views
Uh huh; it's absurd to mention right wing rhetoric when left wing rhetoric is the OBVIOUS culprit Joel - 19/01/2011 02:59:41 PM 1040 Views
No leftist rhetoric? You just called a bunch of people 'dangeorus lunatics' Isaac - 19/01/2011 03:37:54 PM 987 Views
Rhetoric is one thing, but I didn't use violent imagery, did I? Joel - 20/01/2011 01:40:14 AM 1326 Views
no but the democratic party used very similar images in the same state random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:41:19 PM 1068 Views
It's news to me, but I condemn all violent inflammatory imagery and rhetoric. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:13:18 PM 1027 Views
it was the national democrats random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:32:01 PM 1130 Views
Then that's equally dangerous and reprehensible and more reason to loathe the DLC and DCCC. Joel - 20/01/2011 09:49:08 PM 1392 Views
The right is not the ones claiming rhetoric is the issue random thoughts - 19/01/2011 03:58:39 PM 1034 Views
"WE aren't doing it, except for when we are". Admission of guilt is a poor defense. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:25:16 AM 1007 Views
The irony of this thread is not lost on me. Jacob - 19/01/2011 04:09:01 PM 1180 Views
Exactly. *NM* Avendesora - 19/01/2011 04:51:40 PM 584 Views
Bizarre thread for that Soapbox Isaac - 19/01/2011 05:17:58 PM 923 Views
You missed the point, obviously. Jacob - 19/01/2011 06:04:23 PM 1036 Views
so you are saying it is the same old RAFO random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:47:24 PM 1118 Views
The thread has admittedly degenerated Isaac - 19/01/2011 07:02:12 PM 956 Views
Check your NB. Noted you a response. *NM* Jacob - 19/01/2011 07:04:58 PM 567 Views
That I knew it would go this way is why I avoided looking closely for so long. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:20:44 PM 1195 Views
Hey, now. I have to step in. Camilla - 20/01/2011 04:44:49 PM 1223 Views
I'm just saying a significant link can be demonstrated. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:07:27 PM 1263 Views
Re: OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. dart_board - 22/01/2011 05:49:44 PM 1217 Views
We can debate whether it's coincidental, but the connections are documented fact Joel - 22/01/2011 08:17:24 PM 1178 Views
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