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Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Joel Send a noteboard - 16/01/2011 10:24:09 PM
However, what makes it so egregious in this case is that the Loughners principal target had ten months earlier implied Palins crosshair imagery put her life at risk. Consequently, anyone calling that "blood libel" is quite literally blaming the victim, and Palin doing it is literally adding insult to injury.

I honestly think Palin was as shocked and horrified by this as anyone, if perhaps for very different reasons, but that simply means she lacks the judgement to lead. Giffords saw what Palins language might do to her ten months before Loughner tried to kill her, but Sarah Palin STILL can't see a problem.

EDIT: Never mind my redacted paragraph; it's irrelevant to this issue.
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This message last edited by Joel on 16/01/2011 at 10:28:29 PM
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OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. Joel - 16/01/2011 12:18:22 PM 2121 Views
Why are they calling it "blood libel"? Camilla - 16/01/2011 12:23:47 PM 978 Views
Because if the facts were as they represent them those words would be applicable. Joel - 16/01/2011 12:49:22 PM 1151 Views
It's not entirely clear to me whether you're aware of this or not, but... Legolas - 16/01/2011 01:12:22 PM 1194 Views
That's why I said, "popularized". Joel - 16/01/2011 01:46:52 PM 1140 Views
I think Alan Dershowitz dealt with this nonsense already Isaac - 16/01/2011 02:34:10 PM 1510 Views
Interesting. I didn't realize it was so wide-spread. Legolas - 16/01/2011 03:10:28 PM 1053 Views
She wasn't even the first to use the term that week either Isaac - 16/01/2011 10:10:35 PM 1081 Views
I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. Legolas - 16/01/2011 10:18:54 PM 1068 Views
Re: I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. Isaac - 16/01/2011 11:30:38 PM 973 Views
Oh please don't you start to random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:34:43 PM 922 Views
I for one hadn't noticed it before. Legolas - 17/01/2011 10:25:57 PM 1109 Views
it was used here and nobody commented random thoughts - 17/01/2011 10:37:07 PM 991 Views
LOL, I totally forgot that got posted here Isaac - 17/01/2011 10:54:26 PM 1037 Views
It's funny you should say that... Legolas - 18/01/2011 10:32:59 PM 1078 Views
Precisely: I noticed, but it hadn't become a rallying cry for "the real victim" (Palin). Joel - 19/01/2011 12:14:48 AM 1219 Views
I thought you were the real vicitim random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:49:06 PM 1157 Views
When and where did I say that? The ultimate victim is America, but six members of it just died. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:24:27 PM 884 Views
Re: It's funny you should say that... Isaac - 19/01/2011 03:29:52 PM 1058 Views
It was permissible to ignore until it became a rallying cry. Joel - 20/01/2011 04:27:23 PM 1096 Views
A rallying cry is hardly illegal Isaac - 20/01/2011 05:32:45 PM 1150 Views
I never said it was. Joel - 20/01/2011 06:59:39 PM 1241 Views
Oh, I noticed that one alright. Legolas - 18/01/2011 10:25:23 PM 918 Views
but is he accussed of being a tasteless moron who doesn't know what it means? random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:28:03 PM 958 Views
I don't know, if I have to judge him based on that one article, then tasteless moron, absolutely. Legolas - 19/01/2011 06:14:43 PM 1076 Views
compared to the way similar terms are used? random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:58:02 PM 1065 Views
I meant I hadn't seen it used in different contexts before. Legolas - 19/01/2011 07:35:00 PM 1037 Views
The peole who called her stupid for using the term didn't know it was so wide spread either random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:33:19 PM 942 Views
Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Joel - 16/01/2011 10:24:09 PM 1126 Views
Re: Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Isaac - 16/01/2011 11:09:21 PM 1159 Views
Again, Giffords specifically made the connection between Palins imagery and an attack on her. Joel - 17/01/2011 12:53:08 AM 1307 Views
That means precisely nothing Isaac - 17/01/2011 03:59:07 PM 1010 Views
It means everything. Joel - 18/01/2011 08:34:55 PM 1254 Views
I'm trying to understand your logic Chas - 19/01/2011 12:50:28 AM 858 Views
There are two points: Joel - 19/01/2011 02:47:48 AM 1066 Views
I don't agree, but I understand. *NM* Chas - 19/01/2011 10:14:13 PM 506 Views
Giffords' statements and Palins are matters of public record; they're indisputable. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:34:53 PM 1045 Views
I must say, if more people on both sides could say that we'd all be better for it. Joel - 20/01/2011 04:32:55 AM 1074 Views
Re: It means everything. Isaac - 19/01/2011 05:55:02 PM 893 Views
That's simply illogical. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:08:51 AM 1276 Views
the old step one steal underwear step three profit argument random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:01:14 PM 1147 Views
Your inability/unwillingness to follow basic and clearly delineated logic is not my failing. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:19:31 AM 1007 Views
I admit I can't follow gnome logic *NM* random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:50:22 AM 497 Views
I demonstrated the connection, whether or not you choose to look the other way. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:16:28 PM 1040 Views
that is some twisted and bizarre logic random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:38:41 PM 1092 Views
Giffords said Palins crosshairs imagery would have "consequences"; Palin calls the suggestion libel. Joel - 18/01/2011 08:54:45 PM 986 Views
yes but the only consequences is liberals using them to slander Palin random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:58:35 PM 1064 Views
I read Toms reply; I don't think he exactly vindicated your position, nor meant to do so. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:52:37 AM 1369 Views
It was an example of blaming the victim, a phrase you keep misusing random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:28:21 PM 1018 Views
I thought you said only liberals blinded by political bias committed that grave sin. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:47:09 PM 1065 Views
so in other words you again missed the point random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:26:49 PM 999 Views
Well, one of us did. Joel - 20/01/2011 09:24:35 PM 1131 Views
so lets be clear do you or don't you understand what it means to "blame the vicitm"? random thoughts - 20/01/2011 10:03:48 PM 751 Views
I understand it well; can we be equally clear you say the victim here is Palin? Joel - 20/01/2011 10:44:08 PM 1197 Views
So I am a little confused on something... MightyYT - 16/01/2011 02:38:59 PM 1140 Views
Palin putting Giffords district in the crosshairs and Giffords implying at the time she feared this Joel - 16/01/2011 11:21:36 PM 1278 Views
If I understand what you are saying correctly... MightyYT - 17/01/2011 07:07:56 AM 1015 Views
I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. Joel - 17/01/2011 08:33:47 AM 1031 Views
Re: I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. Isaac - 17/01/2011 04:24:01 PM 1091 Views
The Secret Service does guard Congressmen, just not all of them automatically. Joel - 18/01/2011 09:13:39 PM 904 Views
No, they don't Isaac - 18/01/2011 10:19:34 PM 1107 Views
Really? Cannoli says differently, and I believe he's right on that one. Joel - 18/01/2011 10:50:51 PM 1184 Views
You seem to be reading what you want to from what I said Isaac - 19/01/2011 01:27:32 PM 1040 Views
I read what you said & understood it as you restate here, hence I referenced local police (twice) Joel - 20/01/2011 02:15:17 AM 1074 Views
The problem here is your ignoring normal policing powers to concoct an absurdity Isaac - 20/01/2011 04:20:25 PM 1173 Views
More absurd than the notion such incitement warrants no notice? Joel - 20/01/2011 05:42:47 PM 1154 Views
really because people post that kind of crap daily and nothing happens random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:57:52 PM 981 Views
I thought waterboarding was OK and any suggestion to the contrary was terrorist sympathizing. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:54:05 PM 915 Views
way to dodge the point again random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:34:33 PM 952 Views
Do you have an example of a credible threat of injury to a Congressman, or calls for one? Joel - 20/01/2011 10:02:53 PM 1022 Views
Your shifting your original premise, *again* Isaac - 20/01/2011 08:24:18 PM 999 Views
No, you're simply missing the point of it. Joel - 20/01/2011 11:09:57 PM 1017 Views
There is no point Isaac - 21/01/2011 12:22:30 AM 1052 Views
If I had no point I wouldn't bother, but fair enough. Joel - 21/01/2011 01:20:32 AM 1302 Views
Uh...Last I checked conservatives didn't list the Communist Manifesto as a favourite book. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 03:05:07 PM 1321 Views
You're awesome at missing points, aren't you? Dannymac - 16/01/2011 07:26:30 PM 1059 Views
where is the accountability for those committing slander? random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:52:40 PM 986 Views
Libs hate Mein Kampf and We the Living; conservatives hate the Communist Manifesto: He's neither. Joel - 16/01/2011 10:06:02 PM 1006 Views
conseartives hate Mein Kampf and liberals stil read the Communist Manifesto random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:57:22 PM 996 Views
That first line is says it all. Joel - 18/01/2011 09:34:06 PM 1079 Views
Nazis had more in common with communist then capitalist random thoughts - 19/01/2011 04:10:09 PM 1186 Views
The founder of fascism called it "the merger of corporate and national power". Joel - 20/01/2011 02:51:09 AM 1075 Views
and that is supposed to mean something? random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:06:18 PM 1078 Views
YOU are cherry picking. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:50:21 PM 1017 Views
It is to be expected that this site would be libtard central... Shannow - 16/01/2011 05:23:53 PM 1292 Views
See my reply to Dragonsoul above. Dannymac - 16/01/2011 07:30:40 PM 1126 Views
Yeah, your first was better Isaac - 16/01/2011 09:48:58 PM 936 Views
Again, I don't think Palin intended this, but Giffords feared ten months ago that this could result. Joel - 16/01/2011 11:29:19 PM 1086 Views
And I call bullshit Cannoli - 18/01/2011 03:12:13 PM 1219 Views
If Palin wants to accuse Giffords of libel she should have the guts to do it to her face. Joel - 18/01/2011 10:39:07 PM 1182 Views
So if some jihadist shot Gifford, would you also blame Palin? Shannow - 19/01/2011 02:52:42 PM 1069 Views
don't get ti doesn't matter who is to blame it just matters if they can use it *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2011 04:11:09 PM 500 Views
No, I'd blame the shooter first and the mullahs shouting, "JIHAD111" second, as I always do. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:11:33 AM 1158 Views
Then why are you even here? I pretty much agree with you entirely and I'm fairly liberal. *NM* Elaine - 18/01/2011 01:16:33 PM 584 Views
Palin didn't really have anything to do with this, but it makes sense she's blamed. Tom - 16/01/2011 10:19:51 PM 1022 Views
Pretty much. Joel - 16/01/2011 11:44:35 PM 1084 Views
Did they ever catch the person(s) that vandalized Gifford's office? *NM* Tashmere - 17/01/2011 03:30:36 AM 495 Views
I didn't realize someone had, but it appears a militia leader was responsible (shocking, I know). Joel - 17/01/2011 07:04:08 AM 1020 Views
politcal offices are vandalized on a regular basis *NM* random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:41:29 PM 465 Views
She only asked if they caught the guy, she didn't accuse anyone, Sarah. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:27:18 PM 971 Views
OK Olberman when did I imply otherwise? *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:48:41 PM 508 Views
"Political offices are vandalized on a regular basis". Joel - 20/01/2011 03:16:39 AM 1163 Views
Took you this long, huh? Macharius - 17/01/2011 01:53:31 PM 915 Views
I didn't want to look because I was afraid the charges against the far right demagogues might stick. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:07:26 PM 1252 Views
I am sick of the desperate attempts of liberals to find a way to use a tragedy random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:31:18 PM 946 Views
I'm just curious. callandor1000 - 17/01/2011 03:23:47 PM 903 Views
Re: I'm just curious. Camilla - 17/01/2011 03:28:04 PM 1059 Views
I always said I'd do that after Bush was re-elected. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:52:45 PM 933 Views
like I said a matter of faith random thoughts - 17/01/2011 04:27:51 PM 919 Views
I find it interesting... Jeordam - 17/01/2011 05:31:54 PM 1074 Views
I mention her looks solely because... callandor1000 - 20/01/2011 02:30:42 PM 958 Views
Had that convo with the cab driver on the way home from a New Years party. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:42:07 PM 1209 Views
If slander, not mine, Giffords' (at least you don't err like Palin and say, "libel" ). Joel - 18/01/2011 11:14:23 PM 1126 Views
mark you calendar today is the day Joel offically went around the bend into insanity random thoughts - 19/01/2011 05:28:06 PM 948 Views
A mirror will show me who's to blame? On whom have I put a crosshairs? Joel - 20/01/2011 03:23:43 AM 1003 Views
so it is all a matter of faith for you random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:48:44 AM 936 Views
No, it's fairly straight forward logic. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:25:56 PM 1047 Views
sorry Joel but you haven't random thoughts - 20/01/2011 03:29:49 PM 841 Views
It's there; in this thread alone people from both sides of the aisle have acknowledged that. Joel - 20/01/2011 05:51:21 PM 937 Views
only in your does the connection exisit random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:39:35 PM 980 Views
No. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:35:09 PM 1057 Views
dude wake up random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:54:33 PM 1188 Views
Fine, I have no problem dropping the "right" label in my condemnations. Joel - 20/01/2011 10:39:34 PM 1194 Views
So in your opinion... Jeordam - 17/01/2011 05:27:58 PM 932 Views
How 'bout simply color coding them? Joel - 18/01/2011 11:21:03 PM 973 Views
Why not just blame Giffords? Cannoli - 17/01/2011 06:07:14 PM 1265 Views
Indeed, why not; Sarah Palin does. Joel - 18/01/2011 06:58:01 PM 1101 Views
The left are the ones storing up hate with their pathetic slaner random thoughts - 18/01/2011 07:53:23 PM 1048 Views
At least 95% of the blame is Loughners; he's a nut, but that doesn't exonerate the demagogues. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:24:11 PM 1138 Views
0% belongs to political rhetoric from the right random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:47:56 PM 920 Views
Uh huh; it's absurd to mention right wing rhetoric when left wing rhetoric is the OBVIOUS culprit Joel - 19/01/2011 02:59:41 PM 962 Views
No leftist rhetoric? You just called a bunch of people 'dangeorus lunatics' Isaac - 19/01/2011 03:37:54 PM 914 Views
Rhetoric is one thing, but I didn't use violent imagery, did I? Joel - 20/01/2011 01:40:14 AM 1245 Views
no but the democratic party used very similar images in the same state random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:41:19 PM 986 Views
It's news to me, but I condemn all violent inflammatory imagery and rhetoric. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:13:18 PM 948 Views
it was the national democrats random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:32:01 PM 1052 Views
Then that's equally dangerous and reprehensible and more reason to loathe the DLC and DCCC. Joel - 20/01/2011 09:49:08 PM 1318 Views
The right is not the ones claiming rhetoric is the issue random thoughts - 19/01/2011 03:58:39 PM 960 Views
"WE aren't doing it, except for when we are". Admission of guilt is a poor defense. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:25:16 AM 935 Views
The irony of this thread is not lost on me. Jacob - 19/01/2011 04:09:01 PM 1112 Views
Exactly. *NM* Avendesora - 19/01/2011 04:51:40 PM 550 Views
Bizarre thread for that Soapbox Isaac - 19/01/2011 05:17:58 PM 852 Views
You missed the point, obviously. Jacob - 19/01/2011 06:04:23 PM 958 Views
so you are saying it is the same old RAFO random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:47:24 PM 1038 Views
The thread has admittedly degenerated Isaac - 19/01/2011 07:02:12 PM 882 Views
Check your NB. Noted you a response. *NM* Jacob - 19/01/2011 07:04:58 PM 531 Views
That I knew it would go this way is why I avoided looking closely for so long. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:20:44 PM 1117 Views
Hey, now. I have to step in. Camilla - 20/01/2011 04:44:49 PM 1145 Views
I'm just saying a significant link can be demonstrated. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:07:27 PM 1186 Views
Re: OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. dart_board - 22/01/2011 05:49:44 PM 1130 Views
We can debate whether it's coincidental, but the connections are documented fact Joel - 22/01/2011 08:17:24 PM 1107 Views
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