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I didn't want to look because I was afraid the charges against the far right demagogues might stick. Joel Send a noteboard - 18/01/2011 11:07:26 PM
This may be crazy in itself, but has anyone else stopped to think that Giffords was targeted by Loughner simply because she was the closest-at-hand politician?

And then I'd have to deal with, well, THIS.

There's probably something to that; fact is, we could spend eternity trying to decipher all the motives and impetuses of a lunatic but getting nowhere. I do think all the paranoid extremist hatred the many far right demagogues have been stirring up incessantly since Obamas election contributed though. The guy may be apolitical, but he wasn't living under a rock, and while conspiracy theories may have been the bread and butter of liberals in the days of Nixon and Reagan, if you cruise those sites now (and, ironically, I've spent more time there than on Kos, for all that the latter gets flung at me often) you'll find two groups in the overwhelming majority: The right, and the insane. Sometimes they coincide, sometimes they don't, and there are definitely a few leftists, sane and otherwise, but my point is not that Loughner's conservative, more that he's what McCarthy used to call a "fellow traveler" during HIS extremist, hateful paranoid witch hunts against the left.

I think proximity AND liberalism were factors, along with the extremist rhetoric from far right demagogues, and the biggest factor was almost certainly that the guy's nutty as fruit cake even is he HAS quit all he hallucinogens and other drugs he's reported to have habitually used in the past. There are far more liberal Congressman than Giffords, but he'd have needed a plane ticket and more than a few hours preparation to get to most of them. On the other hand, he'd have been hard pressed to find a more liberal politician, let alone Congressman, in AZ, let alone Tucson.

All of that aside, the fact remains: Giffords' publicly stated ten months ago that Palins violent imagery would have "consequences" and after she was shot Palin called such suggestions "blood libel". We can debate whether or not that libel charge is accurate, but either way Palin's accusing Giffords as much if not more than anyone repeating what she first said. So far the only person willing to admit that, let alone defend it, is Cannoli. Again, I commend his courage and deplore his cause.
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OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. - 16/01/2011 12:18:22 PM 2183 Views
Why are they calling it "blood libel"? - 16/01/2011 12:23:47 PM 1057 Views
Because if the facts were as they represent them those words would be applicable. - 16/01/2011 12:49:22 PM 1221 Views
It's not entirely clear to me whether you're aware of this or not, but... - 16/01/2011 01:12:22 PM 1264 Views
That's why I said, "popularized". - 16/01/2011 01:46:52 PM 1237 Views
I think Alan Dershowitz dealt with this nonsense already - 16/01/2011 02:34:10 PM 1607 Views
Interesting. I didn't realize it was so wide-spread. - 16/01/2011 03:10:28 PM 1136 Views
She wasn't even the first to use the term that week either - 16/01/2011 10:10:35 PM 1163 Views
I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. - 16/01/2011 10:18:54 PM 1156 Views
Re: I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. - 16/01/2011 11:30:38 PM 1047 Views
Oh please don't you start to - 17/01/2011 02:34:43 PM 991 Views
I for one hadn't noticed it before. - 17/01/2011 10:25:57 PM 1186 Views
it was used here and nobody commented - 17/01/2011 10:37:07 PM 1065 Views
LOL, I totally forgot that got posted here - 17/01/2011 10:54:26 PM 1102 Views
It's funny you should say that... - 18/01/2011 10:32:59 PM 1150 Views
Re: It's funny you should say that... - 19/01/2011 03:29:52 PM 1139 Views
It was permissible to ignore until it became a rallying cry. - 20/01/2011 04:27:23 PM 1175 Views
A rallying cry is hardly illegal - 20/01/2011 05:32:45 PM 1233 Views
I never said it was. - 20/01/2011 06:59:39 PM 1322 Views
Oh, I noticed that one alright. - 18/01/2011 10:25:23 PM 995 Views
compared to the way similar terms are used? - 19/01/2011 06:58:02 PM 1141 Views
I meant I hadn't seen it used in different contexts before. - 19/01/2011 07:35:00 PM 1109 Views
Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. - 16/01/2011 10:24:09 PM 1197 Views
Re: Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. - 16/01/2011 11:09:21 PM 1247 Views
Again, Giffords specifically made the connection between Palins imagery and an attack on her. - 17/01/2011 12:53:08 AM 1387 Views
That means precisely nothing - 17/01/2011 03:59:07 PM 1085 Views
It means everything. - 18/01/2011 08:34:55 PM 1326 Views
I'm trying to understand your logic - 19/01/2011 12:50:28 AM 932 Views
There are two points: - 19/01/2011 02:47:48 AM 1150 Views
Re: It means everything. - 19/01/2011 05:55:02 PM 970 Views
That's simply illogical. - 20/01/2011 01:08:51 AM 1361 Views
the old step one steal underwear step three profit argument - 19/01/2011 06:01:14 PM 1220 Views
that is some twisted and bizarre logic - 17/01/2011 02:38:41 PM 1173 Views
So I am a little confused on something... - 16/01/2011 02:38:59 PM 1213 Views
Palin putting Giffords district in the crosshairs and Giffords implying at the time she feared this - 16/01/2011 11:21:36 PM 1353 Views
If I understand what you are saying correctly... - 17/01/2011 07:07:56 AM 1086 Views
I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. - 17/01/2011 08:33:47 AM 1110 Views
Re: I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. - 17/01/2011 04:24:01 PM 1179 Views
The Secret Service does guard Congressmen, just not all of them automatically. - 18/01/2011 09:13:39 PM 981 Views
No, they don't - 18/01/2011 10:19:34 PM 1179 Views
Really? Cannoli says differently, and I believe he's right on that one. - 18/01/2011 10:50:51 PM 1280 Views
You seem to be reading what you want to from what I said - 19/01/2011 01:27:32 PM 1114 Views
I read what you said & understood it as you restate here, hence I referenced local police (twice) - 20/01/2011 02:15:17 AM 1174 Views
The problem here is your ignoring normal policing powers to concoct an absurdity - 20/01/2011 04:20:25 PM 1252 Views
More absurd than the notion such incitement warrants no notice? - 20/01/2011 05:42:47 PM 1232 Views
really because people post that kind of crap daily and nothing happens - 20/01/2011 05:57:52 PM 1060 Views
Your shifting your original premise, *again* - 20/01/2011 08:24:18 PM 1078 Views
No, you're simply missing the point of it. - 20/01/2011 11:09:57 PM 1093 Views
There is no point - 21/01/2011 12:22:30 AM 1130 Views
If I had no point I wouldn't bother, but fair enough. - 21/01/2011 01:20:32 AM 1378 Views
Uh...Last I checked conservatives didn't list the Communist Manifesto as a favourite book. - 16/01/2011 03:05:07 PM 1394 Views
You're awesome at missing points, aren't you? - 16/01/2011 07:26:30 PM 1142 Views
where is the accountability for those committing slander? - 17/01/2011 02:52:40 PM 1056 Views
Libs hate Mein Kampf and We the Living; conservatives hate the Communist Manifesto: He's neither. - 16/01/2011 10:06:02 PM 1077 Views
conseartives hate Mein Kampf and liberals stil read the Communist Manifesto - 17/01/2011 02:57:22 PM 1066 Views
That first line is says it all. - 18/01/2011 09:34:06 PM 1155 Views
Nazis had more in common with communist then capitalist - 19/01/2011 04:10:09 PM 1258 Views
The founder of fascism called it "the merger of corporate and national power". - 20/01/2011 02:51:09 AM 1149 Views
and that is supposed to mean something? - 20/01/2011 06:06:18 PM 1159 Views
YOU are cherry picking. - 20/01/2011 07:50:21 PM 1099 Views
It is to be expected that this site would be libtard central... - 16/01/2011 05:23:53 PM 1381 Views
See my reply to Dragonsoul above. - 16/01/2011 07:30:40 PM 1199 Views
Yeah, your first was better - 16/01/2011 09:48:58 PM 1018 Views
Palin didn't really have anything to do with this, but it makes sense she's blamed. - 16/01/2011 10:19:51 PM 1096 Views
Pretty much. - 16/01/2011 11:44:35 PM 1159 Views
Did they ever catch the person(s) that vandalized Gifford's office? *NM* - 17/01/2011 03:30:36 AM 534 Views
politcal offices are vandalized on a regular basis *NM* - 17/01/2011 02:41:29 PM 500 Views
She only asked if they caught the guy, she didn't accuse anyone, Sarah. - 18/01/2011 11:27:18 PM 1052 Views
OK Olberman when did I imply otherwise? *NM* - 19/01/2011 02:48:41 PM 542 Views
"Political offices are vandalized on a regular basis". - 20/01/2011 03:16:39 AM 1244 Views
Took you this long, huh? - 17/01/2011 01:53:31 PM 988 Views
I didn't want to look because I was afraid the charges against the far right demagogues might stick. - 18/01/2011 11:07:26 PM 1334 Views
I am sick of the desperate attempts of liberals to find a way to use a tragedy - 17/01/2011 02:31:18 PM 1021 Views
I'm just curious. - 17/01/2011 03:23:47 PM 985 Views
Re: I'm just curious. - 17/01/2011 03:28:04 PM 1134 Views
I always said I'd do that after Bush was re-elected. - 18/01/2011 11:52:45 PM 1006 Views
like I said a matter of faith - 17/01/2011 04:27:51 PM 995 Views
I find it interesting... - 17/01/2011 05:31:54 PM 1146 Views
I mention her looks solely because... - 20/01/2011 02:30:42 PM 1036 Views
If slander, not mine, Giffords' (at least you don't err like Palin and say, "libel" ). - 18/01/2011 11:14:23 PM 1205 Views
mark you calendar today is the day Joel offically went around the bend into insanity - 19/01/2011 05:28:06 PM 1053 Views
A mirror will show me who's to blame? On whom have I put a crosshairs? - 20/01/2011 03:23:43 AM 1079 Views
so it is all a matter of faith for you - 20/01/2011 05:48:44 AM 1014 Views
No, it's fairly straight forward logic. - 20/01/2011 03:25:56 PM 1122 Views
sorry Joel but you haven't - 20/01/2011 03:29:49 PM 914 Views
It's there; in this thread alone people from both sides of the aisle have acknowledged that. - 20/01/2011 05:51:21 PM 1014 Views
only in your does the connection exisit - 20/01/2011 06:39:35 PM 1059 Views
No. - 20/01/2011 07:35:09 PM 1135 Views
dude wake up - 20/01/2011 08:54:33 PM 1259 Views
So in your opinion... - 17/01/2011 05:27:58 PM 1005 Views
How 'bout simply color coding them? - 18/01/2011 11:21:03 PM 1062 Views
Why not just blame Giffords? - 17/01/2011 06:07:14 PM 1360 Views
Indeed, why not; Sarah Palin does. - 18/01/2011 06:58:01 PM 1180 Views
The irony of this thread is not lost on me. - 19/01/2011 04:09:01 PM 1180 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 19/01/2011 04:51:40 PM 584 Views
Bizarre thread for that Soapbox - 19/01/2011 05:17:58 PM 923 Views
You missed the point, obviously. - 19/01/2011 06:04:23 PM 1036 Views
so you are saying it is the same old RAFO - 19/01/2011 06:47:24 PM 1118 Views
The thread has admittedly degenerated - 19/01/2011 07:02:12 PM 956 Views
Check your NB. Noted you a response. *NM* - 19/01/2011 07:04:58 PM 567 Views
That I knew it would go this way is why I avoided looking closely for so long. - 19/01/2011 11:20:44 PM 1195 Views
Hey, now. I have to step in. - 20/01/2011 04:44:49 PM 1223 Views
I'm just saying a significant link can be demonstrated. - 20/01/2011 07:07:27 PM 1263 Views
Re: OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. - 22/01/2011 05:49:44 PM 1217 Views

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