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I read Toms reply; I don't think he exactly vindicated your position, nor meant to do so. Joel Send a noteboard - 20/01/2011 01:52:37 AM
Sorry you argument has no weight for multiple reasons.

First your entire "blaming the victim" argument is complete BS. Blaming the victim is when you blame someone for being a victim and imply they brought it on themselves. Look at Tom's reply and you will get a better understanding of what blaming the victim looks like.

Of course, if words mean what you choose them to mean it makes sense to see it that way, but given what Loughners reported to have said, it's ironic.
Second, Gifford claiming that there would be consequences does not some how magically become valid because of an unrelated incident. You little leap in logic that because she said makes any attacks on the lefties trying use this to attack the right is an attack Gifford really fails. Sorry.

You should be; since I can only guess at that last sentences meaning I won't try to respond.
Third, the left needs to either shut the fuck up with all the bullshit whining about hate filled rhetoric or stop all of their own hate filled rhetoric because crying like a bunch of scared little girls while they attack none stop is both tiring and pathetic. They are either to stupid to see what they are doing are they are stupid enough to think the rest of us won’t notice either way it is loser strategy and pafrt of the reason why they accomplish so little beyond leading a few sheep around by the nose. One little taste of liberals in power and the conservatives have their best election ever.

How I wish the Dems were liberal, but that's beside the point (tangents are MY bailiwick, but I'm trying to stay on topic, really). Strong rhetoric is one thing, but incindiary dehumanizing rhetoric filled with violent imagery is dangerous, and I sincerely hope you're not so naïve you think Loughner was oblivious or unsympathetic to the literal interpretations of that. Yes, it's just as bad from the left and I do condemn it just as strongly; you used to make jabs about me visiting Kos and I'd retort that I do no such thing: This is one reason why. Loughner is an antigovernment nut, and while only one side of the political spectrum has "antigovernment" as a PLATFORM PLANK (but he's CLEARLY a liberal ) if McCain had won the election Loughners twisted mind could easily have taken Kos' rhetoric as a call to murder. Ultimately, this isn't about left vs. right, it's about demagoguery vs. sanity, because the former is manifestly dangerous to all political persuasions. I'm truly sorry if being "right" (in every sense) is more important to you than that.
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This message last edited by Joel on 20/01/2011 at 01:53:06 AM
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OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. Joel - 16/01/2011 12:18:22 PM 2169 Views
Why are they calling it "blood libel"? Camilla - 16/01/2011 12:23:47 PM 1032 Views
Because if the facts were as they represent them those words would be applicable. Joel - 16/01/2011 12:49:22 PM 1201 Views
It's not entirely clear to me whether you're aware of this or not, but... Legolas - 16/01/2011 01:12:22 PM 1246 Views
That's why I said, "popularized". Joel - 16/01/2011 01:46:52 PM 1213 Views
I think Alan Dershowitz dealt with this nonsense already Isaac - 16/01/2011 02:34:10 PM 1586 Views
Interesting. I didn't realize it was so wide-spread. Legolas - 16/01/2011 03:10:28 PM 1110 Views
She wasn't even the first to use the term that week either Isaac - 16/01/2011 10:10:35 PM 1140 Views
I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. Legolas - 16/01/2011 10:18:54 PM 1132 Views
Re: I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. Isaac - 16/01/2011 11:30:38 PM 1026 Views
Oh please don't you start to random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:34:43 PM 976 Views
I for one hadn't noticed it before. Legolas - 17/01/2011 10:25:57 PM 1164 Views
it was used here and nobody commented random thoughts - 17/01/2011 10:37:07 PM 1046 Views
LOL, I totally forgot that got posted here Isaac - 17/01/2011 10:54:26 PM 1087 Views
It's funny you should say that... Legolas - 18/01/2011 10:32:59 PM 1132 Views
Precisely: I noticed, but it hadn't become a rallying cry for "the real victim" (Palin). Joel - 19/01/2011 12:14:48 AM 1278 Views
I thought you were the real vicitim random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:49:06 PM 1210 Views
When and where did I say that? The ultimate victim is America, but six members of it just died. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:24:27 PM 943 Views
Re: It's funny you should say that... Isaac - 19/01/2011 03:29:52 PM 1115 Views
It was permissible to ignore until it became a rallying cry. Joel - 20/01/2011 04:27:23 PM 1151 Views
A rallying cry is hardly illegal Isaac - 20/01/2011 05:32:45 PM 1204 Views
I never said it was. Joel - 20/01/2011 06:59:39 PM 1301 Views
Oh, I noticed that one alright. Legolas - 18/01/2011 10:25:23 PM 971 Views
but is he accussed of being a tasteless moron who doesn't know what it means? random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:28:03 PM 1015 Views
I don't know, if I have to judge him based on that one article, then tasteless moron, absolutely. Legolas - 19/01/2011 06:14:43 PM 1133 Views
compared to the way similar terms are used? random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:58:02 PM 1119 Views
I meant I hadn't seen it used in different contexts before. Legolas - 19/01/2011 07:35:00 PM 1092 Views
The peole who called her stupid for using the term didn't know it was so wide spread either random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:33:19 PM 1001 Views
Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Joel - 16/01/2011 10:24:09 PM 1179 Views
Re: Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Isaac - 16/01/2011 11:09:21 PM 1222 Views
Again, Giffords specifically made the connection between Palins imagery and an attack on her. Joel - 17/01/2011 12:53:08 AM 1366 Views
That means precisely nothing Isaac - 17/01/2011 03:59:07 PM 1067 Views
It means everything. Joel - 18/01/2011 08:34:55 PM 1311 Views
I'm trying to understand your logic Chas - 19/01/2011 12:50:28 AM 911 Views
There are two points: Joel - 19/01/2011 02:47:48 AM 1127 Views
I don't agree, but I understand. *NM* Chas - 19/01/2011 10:14:13 PM 530 Views
Giffords' statements and Palins are matters of public record; they're indisputable. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:34:53 PM 1107 Views
I must say, if more people on both sides could say that we'd all be better for it. Joel - 20/01/2011 04:32:55 AM 1131 Views
Re: It means everything. Isaac - 19/01/2011 05:55:02 PM 948 Views
That's simply illogical. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:08:51 AM 1335 Views
the old step one steal underwear step three profit argument random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:01:14 PM 1199 Views
Your inability/unwillingness to follow basic and clearly delineated logic is not my failing. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:19:31 AM 1063 Views
I admit I can't follow gnome logic *NM* random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:50:22 AM 525 Views
I demonstrated the connection, whether or not you choose to look the other way. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:16:28 PM 1099 Views
that is some twisted and bizarre logic random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:38:41 PM 1155 Views
Giffords said Palins crosshairs imagery would have "consequences"; Palin calls the suggestion libel. Joel - 18/01/2011 08:54:45 PM 1039 Views
yes but the only consequences is liberals using them to slander Palin random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:58:35 PM 1119 Views
I read Toms reply; I don't think he exactly vindicated your position, nor meant to do so. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:52:37 AM 1432 Views
It was an example of blaming the victim, a phrase you keep misusing random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:28:21 PM 1078 Views
I thought you said only liberals blinded by political bias committed that grave sin. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:47:09 PM 1117 Views
so in other words you again missed the point random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:26:49 PM 1055 Views
Well, one of us did. Joel - 20/01/2011 09:24:35 PM 1186 Views
so lets be clear do you or don't you understand what it means to "blame the vicitm"? random thoughts - 20/01/2011 10:03:48 PM 812 Views
I understand it well; can we be equally clear you say the victim here is Palin? Joel - 20/01/2011 10:44:08 PM 1256 Views
So I am a little confused on something... MightyYT - 16/01/2011 02:38:59 PM 1198 Views
Palin putting Giffords district in the crosshairs and Giffords implying at the time she feared this Joel - 16/01/2011 11:21:36 PM 1335 Views
If I understand what you are saying correctly... MightyYT - 17/01/2011 07:07:56 AM 1064 Views
I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. Joel - 17/01/2011 08:33:47 AM 1089 Views
Re: I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. Isaac - 17/01/2011 04:24:01 PM 1151 Views
The Secret Service does guard Congressmen, just not all of them automatically. Joel - 18/01/2011 09:13:39 PM 961 Views
No, they don't Isaac - 18/01/2011 10:19:34 PM 1160 Views
Really? Cannoli says differently, and I believe he's right on that one. Joel - 18/01/2011 10:50:51 PM 1263 Views
You seem to be reading what you want to from what I said Isaac - 19/01/2011 01:27:32 PM 1092 Views
I read what you said & understood it as you restate here, hence I referenced local police (twice) Joel - 20/01/2011 02:15:17 AM 1154 Views
The problem here is your ignoring normal policing powers to concoct an absurdity Isaac - 20/01/2011 04:20:25 PM 1234 Views
More absurd than the notion such incitement warrants no notice? Joel - 20/01/2011 05:42:47 PM 1211 Views
really because people post that kind of crap daily and nothing happens random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:57:52 PM 1035 Views
I thought waterboarding was OK and any suggestion to the contrary was terrorist sympathizing. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:54:05 PM 970 Views
way to dodge the point again random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:34:33 PM 1013 Views
Do you have an example of a credible threat of injury to a Congressman, or calls for one? Joel - 20/01/2011 10:02:53 PM 1077 Views
Your shifting your original premise, *again* Isaac - 20/01/2011 08:24:18 PM 1055 Views
No, you're simply missing the point of it. Joel - 20/01/2011 11:09:57 PM 1075 Views
There is no point Isaac - 21/01/2011 12:22:30 AM 1111 Views
If I had no point I wouldn't bother, but fair enough. Joel - 21/01/2011 01:20:32 AM 1358 Views
Uh...Last I checked conservatives didn't list the Communist Manifesto as a favourite book. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 03:05:07 PM 1372 Views
You're awesome at missing points, aren't you? Dannymac - 16/01/2011 07:26:30 PM 1122 Views
where is the accountability for those committing slander? random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:52:40 PM 1041 Views
Libs hate Mein Kampf and We the Living; conservatives hate the Communist Manifesto: He's neither. Joel - 16/01/2011 10:06:02 PM 1058 Views
conseartives hate Mein Kampf and liberals stil read the Communist Manifesto random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:57:22 PM 1048 Views
That first line is says it all. Joel - 18/01/2011 09:34:06 PM 1140 Views
Nazis had more in common with communist then capitalist random thoughts - 19/01/2011 04:10:09 PM 1239 Views
The founder of fascism called it "the merger of corporate and national power". Joel - 20/01/2011 02:51:09 AM 1127 Views
and that is supposed to mean something? random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:06:18 PM 1134 Views
YOU are cherry picking. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:50:21 PM 1074 Views
It is to be expected that this site would be libtard central... Shannow - 16/01/2011 05:23:53 PM 1359 Views
See my reply to Dragonsoul above. Dannymac - 16/01/2011 07:30:40 PM 1177 Views
Yeah, your first was better Isaac - 16/01/2011 09:48:58 PM 1000 Views
Again, I don't think Palin intended this, but Giffords feared ten months ago that this could result. Joel - 16/01/2011 11:29:19 PM 1148 Views
And I call bullshit Cannoli - 18/01/2011 03:12:13 PM 1275 Views
If Palin wants to accuse Giffords of libel she should have the guts to do it to her face. Joel - 18/01/2011 10:39:07 PM 1233 Views
So if some jihadist shot Gifford, would you also blame Palin? Shannow - 19/01/2011 02:52:42 PM 1132 Views
don't get ti doesn't matter who is to blame it just matters if they can use it *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2011 04:11:09 PM 526 Views
No, I'd blame the shooter first and the mullahs shouting, "JIHAD111" second, as I always do. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:11:33 AM 1220 Views
Then why are you even here? I pretty much agree with you entirely and I'm fairly liberal. *NM* Elaine - 18/01/2011 01:16:33 PM 609 Views
Palin didn't really have anything to do with this, but it makes sense she's blamed. Tom - 16/01/2011 10:19:51 PM 1074 Views
Pretty much. Joel - 16/01/2011 11:44:35 PM 1139 Views
Did they ever catch the person(s) that vandalized Gifford's office? *NM* Tashmere - 17/01/2011 03:30:36 AM 525 Views
I didn't realize someone had, but it appears a militia leader was responsible (shocking, I know). Joel - 17/01/2011 07:04:08 AM 1088 Views
politcal offices are vandalized on a regular basis *NM* random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:41:29 PM 492 Views
She only asked if they caught the guy, she didn't accuse anyone, Sarah. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:27:18 PM 1032 Views
OK Olberman when did I imply otherwise? *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:48:41 PM 534 Views
"Political offices are vandalized on a regular basis". Joel - 20/01/2011 03:16:39 AM 1223 Views
Took you this long, huh? Macharius - 17/01/2011 01:53:31 PM 966 Views
I didn't want to look because I was afraid the charges against the far right demagogues might stick. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:07:26 PM 1309 Views
I am sick of the desperate attempts of liberals to find a way to use a tragedy random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:31:18 PM 1004 Views
I'm just curious. callandor1000 - 17/01/2011 03:23:47 PM 968 Views
Re: I'm just curious. Camilla - 17/01/2011 03:28:04 PM 1118 Views
I always said I'd do that after Bush was re-elected. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:52:45 PM 991 Views
like I said a matter of faith random thoughts - 17/01/2011 04:27:51 PM 979 Views
I find it interesting... Jeordam - 17/01/2011 05:31:54 PM 1131 Views
I mention her looks solely because... callandor1000 - 20/01/2011 02:30:42 PM 1012 Views
Had that convo with the cab driver on the way home from a New Years party. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:42:07 PM 1265 Views
If slander, not mine, Giffords' (at least you don't err like Palin and say, "libel" ). Joel - 18/01/2011 11:14:23 PM 1187 Views
mark you calendar today is the day Joel offically went around the bend into insanity random thoughts - 19/01/2011 05:28:06 PM 1020 Views
A mirror will show me who's to blame? On whom have I put a crosshairs? Joel - 20/01/2011 03:23:43 AM 1059 Views
so it is all a matter of faith for you random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:48:44 AM 990 Views
No, it's fairly straight forward logic. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:25:56 PM 1102 Views
sorry Joel but you haven't random thoughts - 20/01/2011 03:29:49 PM 895 Views
It's there; in this thread alone people from both sides of the aisle have acknowledged that. Joel - 20/01/2011 05:51:21 PM 997 Views
only in your does the connection exisit random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:39:35 PM 1035 Views
No. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:35:09 PM 1115 Views
dude wake up random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:54:33 PM 1242 Views
Fine, I have no problem dropping the "right" label in my condemnations. Joel - 20/01/2011 10:39:34 PM 1251 Views
So in your opinion... Jeordam - 17/01/2011 05:27:58 PM 982 Views
How 'bout simply color coding them? Joel - 18/01/2011 11:21:03 PM 1039 Views
Why not just blame Giffords? Cannoli - 17/01/2011 06:07:14 PM 1342 Views
Indeed, why not; Sarah Palin does. Joel - 18/01/2011 06:58:01 PM 1161 Views
The left are the ones storing up hate with their pathetic slaner random thoughts - 18/01/2011 07:53:23 PM 1106 Views
At least 95% of the blame is Loughners; he's a nut, but that doesn't exonerate the demagogues. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:24:11 PM 1191 Views
0% belongs to political rhetoric from the right random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:47:56 PM 980 Views
Uh huh; it's absurd to mention right wing rhetoric when left wing rhetoric is the OBVIOUS culprit Joel - 19/01/2011 02:59:41 PM 1020 Views
No leftist rhetoric? You just called a bunch of people 'dangeorus lunatics' Isaac - 19/01/2011 03:37:54 PM 970 Views
Rhetoric is one thing, but I didn't use violent imagery, did I? Joel - 20/01/2011 01:40:14 AM 1303 Views
no but the democratic party used very similar images in the same state random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:41:19 PM 1049 Views
It's news to me, but I condemn all violent inflammatory imagery and rhetoric. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:13:18 PM 1004 Views
it was the national democrats random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:32:01 PM 1108 Views
Then that's equally dangerous and reprehensible and more reason to loathe the DLC and DCCC. Joel - 20/01/2011 09:49:08 PM 1373 Views
The right is not the ones claiming rhetoric is the issue random thoughts - 19/01/2011 03:58:39 PM 1011 Views
"WE aren't doing it, except for when we are". Admission of guilt is a poor defense. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:25:16 AM 986 Views
The irony of this thread is not lost on me. Jacob - 19/01/2011 04:09:01 PM 1163 Views
Exactly. *NM* Avendesora - 19/01/2011 04:51:40 PM 575 Views
Bizarre thread for that Soapbox Isaac - 19/01/2011 05:17:58 PM 906 Views
You missed the point, obviously. Jacob - 19/01/2011 06:04:23 PM 1019 Views
so you are saying it is the same old RAFO random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:47:24 PM 1094 Views
The thread has admittedly degenerated Isaac - 19/01/2011 07:02:12 PM 935 Views
Check your NB. Noted you a response. *NM* Jacob - 19/01/2011 07:04:58 PM 559 Views
That I knew it would go this way is why I avoided looking closely for so long. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:20:44 PM 1177 Views
Hey, now. I have to step in. Camilla - 20/01/2011 04:44:49 PM 1203 Views
I'm just saying a significant link can be demonstrated. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:07:27 PM 1248 Views
Re: OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. dart_board - 22/01/2011 05:49:44 PM 1196 Views
We can debate whether it's coincidental, but the connections are documented fact Joel - 22/01/2011 08:17:24 PM 1161 Views
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